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      08-30-2008, 09:07 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
Chek is well-educated man with speaking engagements all over the world regarding health, wellness, holistic healing, and fitness training. The book and articles he has written are exceptional. Chek has his own multi-level certification. Not many individuals can say that. Chek is right on about a lot of things. Spiritually he can be out there at times, but you cannot deny he is in incredible shape for his age and he can physically out duel people 20+ years his junior.
The same can be said for Scientologists. Hell, any religion. That doesnt make them any less full of shit.

Quote:
Whether a healthy person is taking them or not, supplements are processed, piecemeal garbage a lot of the time. Their health benefits need to be called into question. Evolutionarily speaking, they are new substances for the body. We are used to substances that the supplements try to mimic being in their natural state, not as powders or suspended in liquid. When it comes down to it, eating a chicken breast (organic, free range of course) is superior to drinking a whey protein shake in my opinion.
The health benefits have been called into question. There is decades of reasearch on basic supplements like protein powder and creatine mono. They pose zero health risks in healthy adults.

Youre assuming a lot of things that I havent even implied. I agree, whole foods are better than supplements, but thats beside the point. But spare me the 100% organic all natural free range omega-3 infused crap. The only difference between organic and nonorganic foods is that organic foods cost a hell of a lot more. Theres no data showing any conclusive benefit of one over the other.
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      08-30-2008, 10:14 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedBMW View Post
Wow, lots of broscience on here, huh?

I am by no means an expert, but I have been lifting for the past two years...

.........Get your diet on track, lift HARD, and you will make gains.
The best post/advice yet!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
Before
I don't have before and after pics nor do I intend to take pictures. Here I am playing for the LA Avengers.
Do you usually just randomly change the topic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
Go set the timer on you camera for another avatar pic. I have an athletic build. I am a receiver in professional football.
Yeah, thats the second time youve mentioned that in this thread. STAY ON TOPIC because nobody cares about what you do. start your own thread and leave this one. If you have some positive advice to contribute do so but dont come on
here cutting and pasting info from othere sites (which you have no idea what it means), posting skinny gay pix of you in
your lil football tights (with 12 inch arms) and trying to be-little others that have expierence.
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      08-30-2008, 10:47 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
The same can be said for Scientologists. Hell, any religion. That doesnt make them any less full of shit.

The health benefits have been called into question. There is decades of reasearch on basic supplements like protein powder and creatine mono. They pose zero health risks in healthy adults.

But spare me the 100% organic all natural free range omega-3 infused crap. The only difference between organic and nonorganic foods is that organic foods cost a hell of a lot more. Theres no data showing any conclusive benefit of one over the other.
I doubt you have read anything by Chek to have a basis for your accusations. His book "Awesome Abs" offers great insight into abdominal training and posture correction. His Swiss Ball training articles and videos were ahead of their time and still are applicable today. You are entitled to your views, but Chek should not be compared to a Scientologist.

As far as organic vs non organic, try tasting the difference in the two foods. Or look at the difference in shell density between an organic egg and non organic egg. The non-organic egg's shell is so paper thin it's ridiculous; the organic egg's shell is strong and healthy. I am not for omega 3 infused (done by man) eggs. Often the omega 3s put into the eggs are of low quality any way.

If you think about it, why would I want to eat a cow that has had anti-biotics and hormones injected into it? These bovine anti-biotics and hormones are passed onto the eater and drinker of the meat and milk respectively. Non organic meats are fed processed grains and are often not free range. Organic meats come from free range cows feed a natural grass diet. I won't get into plants sprayed with pesticides that are grown in nutrient lacking soil. The fact of the matter is, you can't get healthy eating an unhealthy animal/plant.
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      08-30-2008, 10:58 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OO---OO View Post
Do you usually just randomly change the topic?
I was giving credibility to my training background. I will remove the pics so the thread isn't disrupted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OO---OO View Post
Yeah, thats the second time youve mentioned that in this thread. STAY ON TOPIC because nobody cares about what you do. start your own thread and leave this one. If you have some positive advice to contribute do so but dont come on
here cutting and pasting info from othere sites (which you have no idea what it means), posting skinny gay pix of you in
your lil football tights (with 12 inch arms) and trying to be-little others that have expierence.
No one cares about you either. Go set that timer. Avatar needs changing. Talk about gay.

I have contributed positively to the thread. In fact, the OP thanked me for some of my advice. Because I pasted something from another site I don't know what it means? That makes sense. I have not be-littled anyone only disagreed with others.

Football is far from a gay sport. My "little" arms score a sh*t load of TDs; that's all I care about. A lot of people couldn't last a day in pro football - it's too demanding physically and mentally.
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      08-30-2008, 12:23 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
I doubt you have read anything by Chek to have a basis for your accusations. His book "Awesome Abs" offers great insight into abdominal training and posture correction. His Swiss Ball training articles and videos were ahead of their time and still are applicable today. You are entitled to your views, but Chek should not be compared to a Scientologist.
You say he should not be compared to a scientologist, but the qualifications you listed as a basis for his credibility are equal to those of a Scientologist. So based on those qualifications, Chek is credible, but Scientologists arent? How so? And Ive read plenty from him. He has some good work, but hes more or less nutty.

Quote:
As far as organic vs non organic, try tasting the difference in the two foods. Or look at the difference in shell density between an organic egg and non organic egg. The non-organic egg's shell is so paper thin it's ridiculous; the organic egg's shell is strong and healthy. I am not for omega 3 infused (done by man) eggs. Often the omega 3s put into the eggs are of low quality any way.
Taste is subjective, and I have had organic foods that either tasted no different, or worse, than their non-organic counterparts. As for egg shell densities - lol wut. How does this translate to better nutritional quality? I know egg shells are high in calcium, so maybe thats what youre getting at. Be my guest.

Quote:
If you think about it, why would I want to eat a cow that has had anti-biotics and hormones injected into it? These bovine anti-biotics and hormones are passed onto the eater and drinker of the meat and milk respectively. Non organic meats are fed processed grains and are often not free range. Organic meats come from free range cows feed a natural grass diet. I won't get into plants sprayed with pesticides that are grown in nutrient lacking soil. The fact of the matter is, you can't get healthy eating an unhealthy animal/plant.
I love eating cows injected with hormones. Hopefully some of that will trickle down to me.

But feel free to post any data showing organic foods to be superior to non-organic foods. I have yet to see any.

***
1: Int J Food Sci Nutr. 2003 Sep;54(5):357-71.

Organic food: nutritious food or food for thought? A review of the evidence.

Magkos F, Arvaniti F, Zampelas A.

Department of Nutrition and Dietetics, Harokopio University, Athens, Greece.

Apparently, one of the primary reasons for purchasing organic food is the
perception that it is more nutritious than conventional food. Given the
increasing interest towards organic food products, it is imperative to review
the existing literature concerning the nutritional value of the produce, and to
determine to what extent are consumer expectations met. There are only few
well-controlled studies that are capable of making a valid comparison and,
therefore, compilation of the results is difficult and generalisation of the
conclusions should be made with caution. In spite of these limitations, however,
some differences can be identified. Although there is little evidence that
organic and conventional foods differ in respect to the concentrations of the
various micronutrients (vitamins, minerals and trace elements), there seems to
be a slight trend towards higher ascorbic acid content in organically grown
leafy vegetables and potatoes. There is also a trend towards lower protein
concentration but of higher quality in some organic vegetables and cereal crops.
With respect to the rest of the nutrients and the other food groups, existing
evidence is inadequate to allow for valid conclusions. Finally, animal feeding
experiments indicate that animal health and reproductive performance are
slightly improved when they are organically fed. A similar finding has not yet
been identified in humans. Several important directions can be highlighted for
future research; it seems, however, that despite any differences, a
well-balanced diet can equally improve health regardless of its organic or
conventional origin.

Publication Types:
Review

PMID: 12907407 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2: Proc Nutr Soc. 2002 Feb;61(1):19-24.

Nutritional quality of organic food: shades of grey or shades of green?

Williams CM.

High Sinclair Unit of Human Nutrition, School of Human Nutrition, School of Food
Biosciences, University of Reading, UK. c.m.williams@reading.ac.uk

Consumer concern regarding possible adverse health effects of foods produced
using intensive farming methods has led to considerable interest in the health
benefits of organically-produced crops and animal products. There appears to be
widespread perception amongst consumers that such methods result in foods of
higher nutritional quality. The present review concludes that evidence that can
support or refute such perception is not available in the scientific literature.
A limited number of studies have compared the nutrient compositions of
organically- and conventionally-produced crops, with a very small number of
studies that have compared animal products (meat, milk and dairy products)
produced under the two agricultural systems. Very few compositional differences
have been reported, although there are reasonably consistent findings for higher
nitrate and lower vitamin C contents of conventionally-produced vegetables,
particularly leafy vegetables. Data concerning possible impacts on animal and
human health of diets comprising organic or conventional produce are extremely
sparse. Data from controlled studies in animal models, particularly within
single species, are limited or poorly designed, and findings from these studies
provide conflicting conclusions. There are no reports in the literature of
controlled intervention studies in human subjects. Comparison of health outcomes
in populations that habitually consume organically- or conventionally-produced
foods are flawed by the large number of confounding factors that might
contribute to any differences reported. If consumer perceptions regarding
potential health benefits of organic foods are to be supported, more research of
better quality is needed than that which is currently available.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 12002790 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3: Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2002 Jan;42(1):1-34.

A comparison of the nutritional value, sensory qualities, and food safety of
organically and conventionally produced foods.

Bourn D, Prescott J.

Department of Food Science, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.
diane.bourn@stonebow.otago.ac.nz

Given the significant increase in consumer interest in organic food products,
there is a need to determine to what extent there is a scientific basis for
claims made for organic produce. Studies comparing foods derived from organic
and conventional growing systems were assessed for three key areas: nutritional
value, sensory quality, and food safety. It is evident from this assessment that
there are few well-controlled studies that are capable of making a valid
comparison. With the possible exception of nitrate content, there is no strong
evidence that organic and conventional foods differ in concentrations of various
nutrients. Considerations of the impact of organic growing systems on nutrient
bioavailability and nonnutrient components have received little attention and
are important directions for future research. While there are reports indicating
that organic and conventional fruits and vegetables may differ on a variety of
sensory qualities, the findings are inconsistent. In future studies, the
possibility that typical organic distribution or harvesting systems may deliver
products differing in freshness or maturity should be evaluated. There is no
evidence that organic foods may be more susceptible to microbiological
contamination than conventional foods. While it is likely that organically grown
foods are lower in pesticide residues, there has been very little documentation
of residue levels.

Publication Types:
Review

PMID: 11833635 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4: Altern Ther Health Med. 1998 Jan;4(1):58-69.

Effect of agricultural methods on nutritional quality: a comparison of organic
with conventional crops.

Worthington V.

NutriKinetics, Washington, DC, USA.

The increasing use of alternative therapies that rely on organically grown foods
has renewed interest in the relationship between agricultural methods and food
quality. The purpose of this article is to review the literature produced over
the last 50 years comparing the nutritional quality of organic with conventional
crops. Whereas few studies have been conducted, there is a trend in the data
indicating higher nutrient content in organically grown crops. This phenomenon
is possibly due to a higher water content in conventional crops, which causes
nutrient dilution. For individual nutrients, existing studies show that organic
fertilization practices produce crops with higher levels of ascorbic acid, lower
levels of nitrate, and improved protein quality compared with conventionally
grown crops. Although a theoretical rationale exists for possible effects of
herbicides on nutrient content, few studies have examined the effects of these
or other pesticides. Animal studies showed better growth and reproduction in
animals fed organically grown feed compared with those fed conventionally grown
feed. Further research is required to confirm the trends seen in the existing
data and to clarify the exact relationships between agricultural management and
nutritional quality.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 9439021 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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      08-30-2008, 12:34 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW View Post
Cool, thanks for the info Suareezay and Bobby_Light.

Also, nice post BoostedBMW...I can definitely relate to a lot of things you mentioned.

I have been taking Truemass by BSN, a lean mass weight gainer, for a few months now. I can say that adding these to my diet plan has definitely helped me bulk up and also get stronger. Lately I have only been able to have 1 shake a day, but I should at least be bumping that up to 2 shakes a day soon. The only thing that sucks about protein shakes is that they are so much liquid it fucks up my stomach sometimes.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but BoostedBMW, do you know of any quick cook recipies that can be made that are healthy and good for "bulking"? I am in college so I don't have a lot of time to spend cooking. Keep in mind I have a stove and a microwave (it toasts, bakes, and microwaves), no oven. Any help for me?

Something easy for me, but often gets boring very quickly is boneless, skinless Chicken breast with some garlic salt and pepper on it cooked in a pan, and making a sweet potatoe in the microwave, with brown rice cooking on the stove.
Ok, if you have a stove and a micro then the possibilities are endless!

First off, just realize that your weight gainer doesn't contain anything that "real food" doesn't have in it. All that it contains is a protein blend with some added fats and some carbs, which is fine because its a convenient way to take in 600+cals if you don't have the time to eat real food, but I don't want you to think that you can't successfully bulk without it. BTW, if you add a cup and a half of oats along with two tablespoons of peanut butter to a whey/casein blend you will essentially have the same thing that BSN is selling you, but it looks like they dump in some vitamins to give it a really long ingredient list.

Ok, as far as easy foods to cook you have a bunch of options. I find it best to just take one day where I have an hour of spare time and I will cook a bunch of food for the week (ie. I'll bake 20 chicken breasts in the oven that are covered with olive oil and paprika so I'll have them for the week). As far as easy to cook meals I eat eggs a lot during the day because its something that I can cook up in 5 minutes and is really high in protein. I'll usually have a whole egg with a cup of eggwhites, some chicken, black olives, cooked with olive oil, and seasoned with paprika/red pepper. On the side of this I'll have a sweet potato, brown rice, or a piece of fruit.

Another good recipe that I found, which has been a staple for me when I'm down on cals has been protein pancakes. These are a great way to take in a good 800 cals in a single meal, which is nice, and they taste really good as well. The recipe is really simple to make as well, and only takes around 10 minutes to cook. To make the batter take a cup of oats and blend it into oat flour in your blender. Then add 1/2 cup cottage cheese, 1 cup eggwhites, teaspoon baking powder, pumpkin spice, and cinnamon. Blend that all together and your batter is done. Pour that into a pan that is sprayed with olive oil and you have pancakes ready to go in a few minutes that are loaded with protein, and high in complex carbs from the oats. I'll top it off with a tablespoon or two of peanut butter, a sliced up banana or some other fruit, or some sf syrup (how many toppings and what kind usually depends on how down on cals I am for the day).

Oats are also a great food because they are so dense in calories. I like to take a huge tub of oats (around 9 cups I think it is), throw it in a bowl and add a ton of cinnamon/pumpkin spice to it as well as some melted down honey. Mix it all together and then bake it in the over for 10-15 mins to make your own granola that you can eat as cereal in the morning.

There are so many options though. Another easy meal to make is to cook some chicken and boil some bean thread or chow mein wheat noodles that only take a few minutes to prepare. Mix them together with some type of sauce (general tsaos, teriyaki, thai penaut sauce, etc) to make a stirfry.

I try to make something different just about everyday so I don't get tired of eating the same crap all the time, but it consists of many of the same types of foods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double White View Post
From my personal experience I find that natural protein is much more effective then artificial WHEY protein. I tend to eat a lot of meats (mostly white meats) after a workout and the results aren't bad at all. Just remember not to mix protein and carbs. Carbs make it harder for your body to break down the protein. As for your question I find it more effective to consume through out the day, but also a lot right after a workout.
Just so you know, whey protein isn't too artificial as it comes from milk, but yes, I also prefer to eat whole foods over powder whenever I can. Also, although I don't feel that it is necessary to supplement with malto/dextrose/waxy maize starch PWO to drive your insulin sky high, I do believe that carbs are DEFINITELY needed pwo. Your muscles glycogen stores are depleted, you need carbs. I take in at least 50g carbs PWO, if not more, and there is no reason not to mix carbs with protein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayjoelb View Post
Listen to BoostedBMW's post. He speaks the truth Broscience 4tl. As far as your original question, read this post: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067. It will answer all your questions about pre/post workout nutrition.

The only thing I'd like to add is once you figure how how many calories you need per day, it tends to be easier to break them down into 'macros' (nutrients needed in large quantities). Keep in mind this isn't exactly "required" per say and the breakdowns you use are totally up to you, but it makes figuring out your general daily caloric intake much easier.

Personally I'm a fan of 40/40/20. For me it's a good overall macro that I can use to both bulk and cut. Basically, 40% of my calories come from protein, 40% from carbs, and 20% from fats. Also...

1g protein = 4 calories
1g carbs = 4 calories
1g fat = 9 calories

If you're attempting to bulk and your maintenance target is 2500, you need about a surplus of 500 calories as Boosted mentioned. So, assume you chose to use the 40/40/20 breakdown, here would be your daily values (3000 calories):

1200 protein
1200 carbs
600 fats

And here are those values in grams:

300g protein
300g carbs
67 fats

If you feel you can't consume that much protein per day, you can do whatever variation you prefer...30/50/20, 30/40/30, doesn't really matter because there's no one 'best' macro. Just make sure you have enough protein =) And you can split those values up however you want into as many or as little meals as you want.

Btw, after you loose large amounts of weight quickly, it's quite common to have to have a combination of loose skin with fat underneath the surface...aka skinny fat. It's a bitch and there's really not much you can about it at the moment (unless you want to consider a tummy tuck). Personally, I'd recommend a nice LONG clean bulk to fill out your frame, then try cutting again.
Definitely a good link. Alan Aragon over on ******* definitely knows his stuff when it comes to nutrition. Good advice with the macros also as taking in more than 1.5g of protein per lb is definitely way too overkill especially on a bulk, which is why I am currently eating on more of a 35/40/25 pro/carb/fat split.
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      08-30-2008, 01:10 PM   #73
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Gaining muscle is relatively simple, to an extent.

1. Train intelligently, and heavy.

2. Stick to the basic exercises with variations: bench, squat, deadlift.

3. Eat intelligently, which means as healthy as you possibly can, and often.

4. Sleep. A lot.

5. Supplement, if necessary.
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      08-30-2008, 01:53 PM   #74
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No one cares about you either. Go set that timer. Avatar needs changing. Talk about gay.

Better?
The Nakid Bandit changed his avi just for you!
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      08-30-2008, 03:22 PM   #75
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If you guys don't mind, I would LOVE to take a moment fromt his thread and SHOWOFF! LOL...

I used to be really into bodybuilding, but since training BJJ for almost 3 years now, I have lost tons of muscle and have a hard time gaining weight. On the plus side, I stay lean year round. I follow a pretty strict diet though, with two cheat meals a week.

Yes! I know, I'm being a showoff, but god damn it I love it.

165lbs, 5'10', 31'' waist (modest).
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sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass. ---PICUS
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      08-30-2008, 03:22 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
Why exactly? Im assuming because of the fat content. Do you only eat fats when your bulking?
That can be one, although some people say it contains the good fats (as it says on the label), but the calories.

But if you're substituting it as a meal, then no big deal.

I use it every once in a while, to help me add an extra 300+ calories (since I use it with milk) to my "whole foods" intake.

As has been said though, real foods first, then add in supps if desired.
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      08-30-2008, 03:24 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOYRIIDE1113 View Post
If you guys don't mind, I would LOVE to take a moment fromt his thread and SHOWOFF! LOL...

I used to be really into bodybuilding, but since training BJJ for almost 3 years now, I have lost tons of muscle and have a hard time gaining weight. On the plus side, I stay lean year round. I follow a pretty strict diet though, with two cheat meals a week.

Yes! I know, I'm being a showoff, but god damn it I love it.

165lbs, 5'10', 31'' waist (modest).
Cool man.

What all did you take, what was your diet like? What was your typical workout routine.

We're really close to the same body type.
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      08-30-2008, 03:40 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Couch View Post
Cool man.

What all did you take, what was your diet like? What was your typical workout routine.

We're really close to the same body type.
Most of the time I'm loading up on complex carbs, simply because Im trying to conserve as much muscle as possible since I have 3 heavy activities every day.

This is how my schedule is now since I have lots of time and not working.

Example
6am: BCAA's and a cup of joe with splenda

6:15am: 1 hour of slow paced cardio at 115bpm

7:45am: 1/2 cup of oats, 2 scoops of whey, Multi Vitamin, and some Flax

11am: 1/2 cup of cottage cheese, turkey, fruit (something low GI like Blueberries or an apple)

2pm: 8oz of Sweet potatoe, 1/4 cup of FF cheddar cheese, 6oz of chicken breast.

3:30pm: Weight Train (30-45 minutes)

4:30-4:45pm: PWO Shake- 2 scoops of Whey, 1 scoop of waxy maize

6pm- Heavy carb load- 1.5 cups of whole wheat pasta, 6-8oz of chicken breast, 1/2 cup of cottage cheese

7:30pm- Banana and peanut butter (peanut butter's fat helps slow the digestion of the banana, and the fructose from the banana provides me with good energy before BJJ)

8:15 till' 9:30pm- BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu)

10pm- 2 scoops of whey, 3 tablespoons of Gatorade powder
10:15pm- Knock out and go to sleep.

This is only an example and workout times will vary on somedays.
Been a member of bodybuilding.com and its forum since I was 14yrsold. I'm not huge or monstrous, but thats not my goal anymore anyways.
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Quote:
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sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass. ---PICUS
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      08-30-2008, 05:45 PM   #79
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Nice work joyride!!!

I'm also 5'10, currently 163lbs, but it looks like you have around 20lbs of muscle on me. You must have the smallest bone structure known to mankind to have that much muscle on your frame at only 165lbs. Keep up the great work.
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      08-30-2008, 06:36 PM   #80
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Looking good Joyride (not in a gay way)! If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

I am 5'6" 140ish and 18. I'm currently working on a string of photos like you see on YouTube where you take a pic everyday for a while and put them in a movie that goes really quickly so you can see change.

I wish someone, like you or BoostedBMW, could sit down with me and help me figure out a full out diet for myself, as I just do not have the indepth knowledge on this kind of thing as you guys seem to portray in your posts.
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      08-30-2008, 10:37 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
You say he should not be compared to a scientologist, but the qualifications you listed as a basis for his credibility are equal to those of a Scientologist. So based on those qualifications, Chek is credible, but Scientologists arent? How so? And Ive read plenty from him. He has some good work, but hes more or less nutty.
I doubt you've read plenty from him. Maybe you should read up about Paul.

http://www.chekinstitute.com/meet.cfm
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=885647

He is about high performance and holistic health. Holistic health is not the usual for western society that is why he can be considered controversial. Pharmaceutical companies are out to make a profit. Many drugs correct sypmtoms and not the base root of the problems and acutally cause more problems which calls for more drugs -- the cycle goes on and on. Drugs companies have us hooked from cradle to grave.

Holistic healing attacks the root of the problems and puts the body back into balance so the problem stops. Americans are largely not open minded enough to accept this type of methodology. They are bombarded with marketing by drug companies and influenced by what their doctor with no nutrition background gives them to take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
Taste is subjective, and I have had organic foods that either tasted no different, or worse, than their non-organic counterparts. As for egg shell densities - lol wut. How does this translate to better nutritional quality? I know egg shells are high in calcium, so maybe thats what youre getting at. Be my guest.
A healthy animal lays healthy eggs just as a healthy woman has healthy children. A thin shelled egg can easily crack and die. A shell with a better density has less chance of cracking. Think about it from an evolutionary sense. I would much rather eat an egg from a free range chicken with access to sunlight than from a chicken that has no access to sunlight and is cramped in a caged with thousands of other chickens who roam around in caked feces and urine 24/7. Animals raised on a poor diet and in poor conditions are less healthy to eat. Do your homework on traditional farming techniques. It's atrocious. Not to mention the inhumane treatment of animals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
I love eating cows injected with hormones. Hopefully some of that will trickle down to me.

But feel free to post any data showing organic foods to be superior to non-organic foods. I have yet to see any.
You eat whatever you want. I'm sure bovine growth hormones and anti-biotics are excellent for humans. Please.

Here is some info for you to swallow about organic foods.

http://www.sustainweb.org/pdf/myth_real.pdf

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Originally Posted by OO---OO View Post
Better?
The Nakid Bandit changed his avi just for you!
Now you look more insecure. My background is in Div IA sports and professional sports. You're small compared to guys I competed against every day for eight years. Get over yourself.

Last edited by Bobby_Light; 08-30-2008 at 11:29 PM.. Reason: Added Chek interview link
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      08-30-2008, 11:06 PM   #82
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Ironically, Paul Chek just put out a video regarding post-workout nutrition. Does this guy sound like a nut job? I sure don't think so. He says he is not for commercial products. "There is no better product than nature." How true. He also mentions metabolic typing - eating according to your metabolism. He dislikes whey post workout due to its low fat content.

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZSxZHH24kZk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZSxZHH24kZk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

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      08-31-2008, 12:26 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW View Post
Looking good Joyride (not in a gay way)! If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

I am 5'6" 140ish and 18. I'm currently working on a string of photos like you see on YouTube where you take a pic everyday for a while and put them in a movie that goes really quickly so you can see change.

I wish someone, like you or BoostedBMW, could sit down with me and help me figure out a full out diet for myself, as I just do not have the indepth knowledge on this kind of thing as you guys seem to portray in your posts.
I'm 21, I'll be 22 in November.
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Originally Posted by picus View Post
sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass. ---PICUS
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      08-31-2008, 01:27 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
I doubt you've read plenty from him. Maybe you should read up about Paul.

http://www.chekinstitute.com/meet.cfm
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=885647

He is about high performance and holistic health. Holistic health is not the usual for western society that is why he can be considered controversial. Pharmaceutical companies are out to make a profit. Many drugs correct sypmtoms and not the base root of the problems and acutally cause more problems which calls for more drugs -- the cycle goes on and on. Drugs companies have us hooked from cradle to grave.

Holistic healing attacks the root of the problems and puts the body back into balance so the problem stops. Americans are largely not open minded enough to accept this type of methodology. They are bombarded with marketing by drug companies and influenced by what their doctor with no nutrition background gives them to take.
once again youve gone off on a tangent completely irrelevant to anything I asked you. Learn how to read; ive read plenty from Chek. Some good, mostly ridiculous.

Also posting anything from T-mag discredits your argument almost as much as posting anything from Chek. But thats a different thread all together.

Quote:
A healthy animal lays healthy eggs just as a healthy woman has healthy children. A thin shelled egg can easily crack and die. A shell with a better density has less chance of cracking. Think about it from an evolutionary sense. I would much rather eat an egg from a free range chicken with access to sunlight than from a chicken that has no access to sunlight and is cramped in a caged with thousands of other chickens who roam around in caked feces and urine 24/7. Animals raised on a poor diet and in poor conditions are less healthy to eat. Do your homework on traditional farming techniques. It's atrocious. Not to mention the inhumane treatment of animals.
So free range egg shells dont break as easily? Thats it. Wow thats such a substantial advantage; im never buying non free range eggs again. Or maybe I just wont buy cracked eggs - it hasnt seemed to be a problem for me yet.

If you have any data showing any significant differences between the health effects of organic and non-organic foods to back this up id love to see it. Dont worry though, I dont expect you to actually post any.


Quote:
You eat whatever you want. I'm sure bovine growth hormones and anti-biotics are excellent for humans. Please.
Until I see any substantial, conclusive data showing otherwise, I dont see a problem with them. Ive eaten non-organic meat for 24 years and havent had a problem with it yet.

Quote:
Here is some info for you to swallow about organic foods.

http://www.sustainweb.org/pdf/myth_real.pdf
An article co-authored by an organization with a pro-organic agenda? Thats not how this works. Either post impartial, unbiased data or im not interested.

***
Dtsch Tierarztl Wochenschr. 2003 Aug;110(8):316-9.Links
[Effects of animal housing facilities on residues and contaminants in food]
[Article in German]

Hamscher G, Nau H.

Zentrumsabteilung für Lebensmitteltoxikologie, Zentrum für Lebensmittelwissenschaften, Tierärztliche Hochschule Hannover. Gerd.Hamscher@tiho-hannover.de

There are--especially in the case of food of animal origin--only a few well-controlled studies available comparing organically and conventionally produced food with a focus on residues and contaminants. The differences found seemed to be much lower than expected, and the amounts of residues and contaminants were mostly below regulatory maximum residue levels. In the case of organically and conventionally produced milk there have been slight but usually not significant differences reported. One important observation is, that conventionally produced milk contains aflatoxin M1 more frequently than biologically produced milk. The investigation of eggs from different housing systems for laying hens showed in the case of dioxins the highest concentrations in free range eggs. In contrast, propoxur, an insecticide used against the poultry red mite, was found in eggs from battery cages in higher amounts than in those from enriched cages and in eggs obtained from an aviary system. Further research in this field is highly recommended, but there should be more sophisticated evaluation of the data sets from national and international monitoring programs.


J Food Prot. 2005 Nov;68(11):2451-3.Links
Salmonella prevalence in free-range and certified organic chickens.
Bailey JS, Cosby DE.

US Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service, P.O. Box 5677, Athens, Georgia 30604-5677, USA. jsbailey@saa.ars.usda.gov

Many consumers assume that broiler chickens grownunder traditional commercial conditions will have more Salmonella than free-range or organic chickens, which usually are less crowded, have access to outside spaces during grow out, and are fed special diets. Despite these perceptions, there is a lack of published information about the microbiological status of free-range and organic chickens. A total of 135 processed free-range chickens from four different commercial free-range chicken producers were sampled in 14 different lots for the presence of Salmonella. Overall, 9 (64%) of 14 lots and 42 (31%) of 135 of the carcasses were positive for Salmonella. No Salmonella were detected in 5 of the 14 lots, and in one lot 100% of the chickens were positive for Salmonella. An additional 53 all-natural (no meat or poultry meal or antibiotics in the feed) processed chickens from eight lots were tested; 25% ofthe individual chickens from 37% of these lots tested positive for Salmonella. Three lots of chickens from a single organicfree-range producer were tested, and all three of the lots and 60% of the individual chickens were positive for Salmonella.The U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Safety and Inspection Service reported that commercial chickens processed from 2000 to 2003 had a Salmonella prevalence rate of 9.1 to 12.8%. Consumers should not assume that free-range or organicconditions will have anything to do with the Salmonella status of the chicken.

Last edited by oldaccount; 08-31-2008 at 01:50 PM..
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      08-31-2008, 01:42 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Light View Post
Ironically, Paul Chek just put out a video regarding post-workout nutrition. Does this guy sound like a nut job? I sure don't think so. He says he is not for commercial products. "There is no better product than nature." How true. He also mentions metabolic typing - eating according to your metabolism. He dislikes whey post workout due to its low fat content.
No, he sounds completely grounded in reality. Also, completely credible. I always take people seriously when they take their shirt off for no reason whatsoever. My doctor does it all the time. Well, Dr. Quiet does it a lot, but Dr. Movement - not so much. Dr. Happiness though, I dont know if ive ever seen him with his shirt on.

[u2b]UJ2-tcTBo4g&feature=related[/u2b]

And remember folks, you can cure your food allergies by chewing your food to a liquid consistency, to allow your Chi and life force to mix with the food. That way your body will accept the food as a welcomed friend, instead of as an enemy.

[u2b]lbW3MmRWg_s&feature=related[/u2b]

Not insane at all:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...highlight=chek

The Chek Mandala is my favorite:

http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=51
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      08-31-2008, 01:45 PM   #86
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For one it depends on what protein drink youre talking about. It does not matter WHEN you have them really it is the total amount in the day. You will want to have 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight. That is usually the formula. If it were me I would have one 3 times a day, in between meals.
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      08-31-2008, 02:58 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
once again youve gone off on a tangent completely irrelevant to anything I asked you. Learn how to read; ive read plenty from Chek. Some good, mostly ridiculous.

Also posting anything from T-mag discredits your argument almost as much as posting anything from Chek. But thats a different thread all together.
It was an interview with Chek done by T-Nation. How can an interview with the man in question discredit my agrument. Did you even click the link?

What tangent did I go off on? I discussed Chek and his holistic healing principles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
So free range egg shells dont break as easily? Thats it. Wow thats such a substantial advantage; im never buying non free range eggs again. Or maybe I just wont buy cracked eggs - it hasnt seemed to be a problem for me yet.

If you have any data showing any significant differences between the health effects of organic and non-organic foods to back this up id love to see it. Dont worry though, I dont expect you to actually post any.
A healthy hen will lay the BEST eggs it can to ensure their survival. Why would it lay a thin-shelled egg if it were indeed healthier? Healthier eggs come from healthier chickens. Think.

I just posted an entire PDF which mentioned several studies showing organic foods are superior. You don't think your studies are influenced and funded by commercial farming interests. You are regurgitating what you have been fed regarding commercial farming. You should know better than to post a study done by a government agency. Corporate america has our government by the balls.

Why has disease risen so sharply in the US in the past 100 years if our farming habits are better than those that pre-date 1900? If all of these pesticides and processed foods are so good, shouldn't cases of degenerative disease be falling? That's all the proof I need to stay as far away from commercial farming as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
Until I see any substantial, conclusive data showing otherwise, I dont see a problem with them. Ive eaten non-organic meat for 24 years and havent had a problem with it yet.
You haven't had a problem that you can see at least. At the cellular level, you may indeed be out of balance which is the recipe for disease. If you're only 24, bad habits will not be affecting you as yet. Bad habits will bite you in the rear in due time as they do for everyone.

In your heart, do you really think ingesting bovine growth hormone is good for the human body?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
Further research in this field is highly recommended, but there should be more sophisticated evaluation of the data sets from national and international monitoring programs.
Read again. Seems real conclusive.

If salmonella is so high in free range chickens, where are the cases of people getting sick? They should be happening all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
No, he sounds completely grounded in reality. Also, completely credible. I always take people seriously when they take their shirt off for no reason whatsoever. My doctor does it all the time. Well, Dr. Quiet does it a lot, but Dr. Movement - not so much. Dr. Happiness though, I dont know if ive ever seen him with his shirt on.
If you actually watched the entire series of videos, he took his shirt off to give his lifestyle and teachings credibility. His physique certainly does not injure his argument.

90% of American doctors wouldn't take their shirts off because they are very poor examples of health. I rarely see healthy doctors. They are too stressed out and have poor diets. I would not take lifestyle advice from one of the team doctors I had while playing ball. They were sloppy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
And remember folks, you can cure your food allergies by chewing your food to a liquid consistency, to allow your Chi and life force to mix with the food. That way your body will accept the food as a welcomed friend, instead of as an enemy.
He offers out of the box thinking that fat, unhealthy Americans can't swallow. Chewing your food more till it reaches a more liquid consistnecy may aide in digestion. Mixing water in your mouth with saliva aides in it's assimilation into the body. This is an eastern philosophy. Maybe you should try it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
Chek has a different spiritual side than most, and he has implemented it into his holistic teachings. Not all are receptive to his ideas. I largely don't necessarily agree with him on his spiritual views. Doesn't mean his is a nutjob. Just means he has different ideas. Americans seems to be very close minded as they are fed that they are superior to other cultures from day one. It is this superior, greater than thou attitude that closes our minds to different ways of thinking.

Like I said before, eat whatever you want and I will do the same. This discussion is done on my side. All the best.
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      08-31-2008, 05:07 PM   #88
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That guy reminds me of George Bush lol
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