07-09-2014, 01:08 PM | #1 | |
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Modded E90 vs stock F80. Guess what's in the garage?
Looks like the modded e90 vs stock F80 thread went off the deep end.
I think it's a useful discussion still, can we try to keep it civil, folks? I have owned 5 E9x M3s, a 2011 E90 DCT, a 2011.5 E93 DCT, a 2012 E92 6sp, a 2013 E92 6Spd and a 2011 E90 6sp. All have been modded, I've tried Dinan, KW V3, KW Clubsport, Eibach + Bilstein, PSS10, Ohlins, Motion Control and a few other suspension setups I'm sure I'm forgetting. I instruct with a couple of the clubs around here so have a decent idea of what I'm doing on track. Just wanted to make some comments - hopefully we can keep this a civil conversation. Quote:
The E90 feels slow and it doesn't stick as well as my F80. It rides way worse. It doesn't take a set as nicely and is harder to deal with. The F80 has zero on center play. Not sure what was wrong with your car, but the ratio is faster, the turn in is better, and the car takes a set faster than the e90. The steering feel does suffer. You can't tell when the front wheels are slipping... but most of that is because the front wheels AREN'T slipping. The e90 understeers way more, even with the additional camber I run. Sound - there is no comparison, the E90 with Akrapovic or any of the other 30 exhausts I've had, sounds miles better. The F80 is pretty decent above 4000 rpm and in boost, but it's not very entertaining from a sound perspective at idle or on startup (especially cold start - my wife thought UPS had come, that's how bad it is) Anyway, my verdict is that the E90 is being parted out. I really like the e90 platform, but the F80 does just about everything except tickle the ears, better. It's especially better at lightening the wallet, but there aren't many people reading the F80 boards that are horribly hurting for money. |
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07-09-2014, 04:46 PM | #4 | |
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The suspension in Sport Plus was not as smooth as the Ohlin R&T, and it had perceptively more body roll, although minimal of course. I have sharper turn in with my Ohlins and camber plates than the F80 in Sport Plus. Turbo lag was evident, and not enjoyable. No modding issue here, simply a fact of life that is not corrected even with two turbos. Until BMW adds an electric motor to give instant torque while the turbos spool up, I will take the linear S65 instead. Glad we agree on the sound. There is nothing from the F80 engine that has the mechanical beauty of the S65, and I don't care for the exhaust quality. Certainly computer generated sound through the speakers is a stupid idea left for non-enthusiasts who may buy the new M3 by mistake and won't notice. |
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07-09-2014, 04:58 PM | #5 | |
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Don't know what play you are talking about, I didn't feel any. I like the steering in Comfort and Sport. Sport+ was just too much. Can't comment on suspension, I only have springs with OEM shocks. F82 cornered flatter I feel like. Turbo lag. It's not as instantaneous as the V8, but nowhere near enough for me to say it was "evident" Sound. I liked it. I have a fully catless setup with Eisenmann Race, so my E92 sings at all RPM including idle. The sound from the S55 was a non issue for me. Didn't really like the cold start but that's about it, I can live with that. So you are saying you can hear sound being pipped through the speakers? Because I couldn't.
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07-09-2014, 05:21 PM | #6 |
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Referring to the original post that prompted this thread, it always cracks me up when a guy comes on a board (because only guys do this) and gives an opinion on how his heavily modified car is better than the newer version, pointing out how it is better in certain ways (that he had his car modified to his fix because apparently it also wasn't good enough in the first place, yet they never mention that point), and then is surprised when people think he's a tool. Everyone has opinions and is entitled to them, but presenting them as objective facts when they clearly aren't, and doing it on a board for the car in question is never going to win you any friends.
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07-09-2014, 05:59 PM | #7 | |
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The on center play is interesting - that's something no one else has noted. I suspect a bad alignment... or OP ran his e90 with a stupid amount of toe out. Curious if OP has any track experience or just likes really twitchy steering. |
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07-09-2014, 06:02 PM | #8 | |
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And you do realize the active sound has a purpose, right? It's not just there to make it sound better. It's there to restore some of the aural feedback which is admittedly missing from a turbo engine. I think we can all agree that we wish things like active sound weren't necessary. But so far I can't recall anyone offering up a better idea for how to restore some of the sound that's inherently lost due to the turbos. |
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07-10-2014, 09:21 AM | #9 | |
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07-10-2014, 05:12 PM | #10 |
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kitw, any track impressions or data yet? (F8X vs E90)
Chance of a highway run between the two before you ditch the E90?
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07-10-2014, 07:18 PM | #11 | |
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PS. Keep you E92 for now
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07-10-2014, 08:32 PM | #12 |
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Ive driven the E92 and just recently my buddies new f80 M3, and i must say that i didn't notice any turbo lag. And we were doing a lot of 0-60 and 20-140 pulls lol.
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07-13-2014, 08:32 PM | #14 |
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I just got back from driving the F80 m3 and I love the sound. Look for my review later but I just sold my E90 M3 (modded) and currently drive a modded S4. The new M3 is amazing on every level. I think owners of the old car are just a bit butt-hurt if you will the new one is so nice. To those people I just say we all have choices in life so do what you please but no need to write long lengthy replies.
The new is almost always better, this is how mfr. make money, do you really expect a new car to be "less" than the old one?
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07-13-2014, 08:55 PM | #15 | |
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Your comments are just ridiculous. Yes, the general premise is that "new cars" aren't "less" (whatever that means) than the "old" ones they replace. If you mean by OBJECTIVE measures, i.e., performance metrics. However, there is more to the "feel" of a car than purely objective measurement. Hence subjectivity. The car world is replete with examples of cars that are replaced by subsequent models that are technologically more advanced, have better performance metrics, but are panned by pros and enthusiasts on subjective criteria. In the BMW family the new ///M5 is a great example of this. I am not butt-hurt that the new ///M has better objective metrics than the model it replaces. I am excited for the brand and the people who buy them. I have reservations about the direction ///M is heading, i.e., turbos, but that is philosophical. If anything THIS is what I am "butt-hurt" about. Turbo-charging. I understand the reasons for it, but ///M has previously espoused a brand identity that eschewed this very technology. Enjoy your new ///M. Please don't presume to assume that I am butt-hurt because your new twin turbo car is FASTER or has MOAR POWER. Congrats. If that were my sole criteria, it would be sitting in my driveway right now. |
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07-13-2014, 10:02 PM | #16 | |
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07-13-2014, 11:12 PM | #17 |
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07-13-2014, 11:31 PM | #18 |
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Nice rebuttal, well reasoned and cogent. Well done sir!
GB Packer Fan. You are the biggest F80 advocate/apologist on this board. Interesting since you haven't taken delivery yet. Hope your DCT doesn't blow or your HPFP doesn't fail. Good luck with your first year purchase of the only ///M3 car in a decade to NOT win the engine of the year award. Butthurt yet? |
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07-13-2014, 11:39 PM | #19 | |
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07-13-2014, 11:58 PM | #20 | |
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I have seen your posts, many of which are variations on the theme. New car is awesome, you M9X owners are delusional and clinging to old tech, etc., etc., ergo you must be butthurt. Logical fallacy. I believe my comments are well-reasoned and fair, albeit subjective. I acknowledge the empirical superiority of the new chassis and motor, while lamenting the break with previous ///M philosophy. I fail to see how that makes me butthurt. Congrats on your new ///M, enjoy it in good health. |
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07-16-2014, 09:19 PM | #22 |
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