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      08-09-2014, 10:16 PM   #1
Shawn Dover
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Winter tires and wheels for M3

Tire Rack says that they have no winter tires available for the 2015 M3. Is that right? Which brand and size tires should I be looking at? Thanks for any help.
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      08-09-2014, 11:15 PM   #2
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Tirerack actually has winter tires for the 19" rims in stock size. Bridgestone Blizzak LM60 and Pirelli Sottozero II.
Tirerack has nothing listed for the 18" stock tire size though.
I'm looking into probably VMR 18" rims for winters. Hoping to fit some Nokian hakkapeliita R2 tires on them. Closest size I can find is 245/40/18 for the fronts, and 245/45/18 for the back.

Last edited by Nex; 08-09-2014 at 11:47 PM..
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      08-10-2014, 12:12 AM   #3
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I picked up some E60 535i 18s and I'm gonna run them with 12mm spacers for the winter so I've been shopping for 245/40/18 snows. I imagine that'd be the size tirerack recommends since they recommend it to the 535 and they have the same wheel widths as we do.
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      08-10-2014, 01:01 AM   #4
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Anybody know of pricing for BMWs new 18 and 19 snow wheels for the F8x?
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      08-10-2014, 01:19 AM   #5
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Has anyone verified if the F30 wheels are compatible? I have some 18s with winter tires that I'm hoping to be able use.
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      08-10-2014, 02:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Dover
Tire Rack says that they have no winter tires available for the 2015 M3. Is that right? Which brand and size tires should I be looking at? Thanks for any help.
Michelin Pilot Alpin are available for the standard 19" tires sizes, and those are the best winter tires on earth, so it's an easy choice! 😉
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      08-10-2014, 04:26 AM   #7
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Gary @ TireRack said there will be more options next month.
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      08-10-2014, 06:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchVince View Post
Michelin Pilot Alpin are available for the standard 19" tires sizes, and those are the best winter tires on earth, so it's an easy choice! 😉
They are great if you don't need to drive in deep snow, slush or ice

I had a set of PA3 on my E92 M3 and actually took them off after the first storm and sold them... they were horrible in deep, wet snow. Dangerous IMO. Amazing on dry pavement but not in bad weather. I went with Blizzak LM-60 for the balance of the winter and they were much, much better. If someone's winters are very light, the Pilot Alpin are probably very good. If they are heavier snow/slush and ice, they are NOT very good. Lots of discussion around forums on how poorly they perform in deeper snow and slush.
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Last edited by gthal; 08-10-2014 at 08:05 AM..
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      08-10-2014, 08:02 AM   #9
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Here's what I know about the 18" package winter tires:

If you go to the Michelin.fr (France) website and look up the F80 M3, you will see the recommended tire is the Michelin Pilot Alpin 4 in 255/40R18. Unfortunately I've learned through Michelin customer service that this tire won't be brought to the US market. You can still get the Pilot Alpin 2 in this size from Tire Rack, but that's a Porsche construction with a lower load rating than the OE BMW tire (95 instead of 99).

If you go to the ETK or RealOEM database, in the wheels section you'll find the officially-recommended tire from BMW is the Continental WinterContact TS 830 P in 255/40R18 99V. Through my contacts at Conti, BMW and Tire Rack (their major distributor) I've learned that this tire isn't available yet but should be by late fall. Given that this is likely the tire that BMW did their winter testing (and ABS/ESC calibration) with, I'll probably get this one if I can.

Looking at Tire Rack, there are six winter tire options in the 255/40R18 size. If neither of the two tires mentioned above become available, probably the best off-the-shelf alternative would be the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 or LM-32. I'd probably go with the H-rated LM-60 rather than the V-rated LM-32, since 130mph is plenty fast for public roads (especially in winter!) and I'd trade the higher speed rating for a slightly better winter compound. I had the LM-60 on my Z4 M Coupe and the car was unstoppable in the snow.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Floridagator; 08-10-2014 at 08:03 AM.. Reason: Minor grammatical corrections
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      08-10-2014, 08:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridagator View Post
Here's what I know about the 18" package winter tires:

If you go to the Michelin.fr (France) website and look up the F80 M3, you will see the recommended tire is the Michelin Pilot Alpin 4 in 255/40R18. Unfortunately I've learned through Michelin customer service that this tire won't be brought to the US market. You can still get the Pilot Alpin 2 in this size from Tire Rack, but that's a Porsche construction with a lower load rating than the OE BMW tire (95 instead of 99).

If you go to the ETK or RealOEM database, in the wheels section you'll find the officially-recommended tire from BMW is the Continental WinterContact TS 830 P in 255/40R18 99V. Through my contacts at Conti, BMW and Tire Rack (their major distributor) I've learned that this tire isn't available yet but should be by late fall. Given that this is likely the tire that BMW did their winter testing (and ABS/ESC calibration) with, I'll probably get this one if I can.

Looking at Tire Rack, there are six winter tire options in the 255/40R18 size. If neither of the two tires mentioned above become available, probably the best off-the-shelf alternative would be the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 or LM-32. I'd probably go with the H-rated LM-60 rather than the V-rated LM-32, since 130mph is plenty fast for public roads (especially in winter!) and I'd trade the higher speed rating for a slightly better winter compound. I had the LM-60 on my Z4 M Coupe and the car was unstoppable in the snow.

Hope this helps.
This is very helpful. Thanks. In terms of nice-looking but not overly expensive winter rims on Tire Rack, what should I be looking for?
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      08-10-2014, 09:20 AM   #11
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Does anyone have any experience with the blizzack ws70? They're on clearance right now at tirerack for a pretty good price..
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      08-10-2014, 09:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Dover View Post
This is very helpful. Thanks. In terms of nice-looking but not overly expensive winter rims on Tire Rack, what should I be looking for?
Unfortunately right now Tire Rack doesn't have any 18" wheel offerings for the M3/M4. The stock 18" wheels have a very specific rim profile to clear the 380mm brake package. This requires a forged wheel, which even on Tire Rack is fairly rare. And since most people are looking for 'plus size' options right now, Tire Rack probably isn't putting a lot of effort into identifying 18" options.

I'm sure more options will materialize as time goes on, but most likely the best option will be the BMW OE winter wheel package.

In the aftermarket, I'd look for a square setup using an 18x8.5 with an offset around 35mm. The rear will probably be well inside the wheel well, but nobody said running around on winter tires was sexy.
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      08-10-2014, 10:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
Tirerack actually has winter tires for the 19" rims in stock size. Bridgestone Blizzak LM60 and Pirelli Sottozero II.
Tirerack has nothing listed for the 18" stock tire size though.
I'm looking into probably VMR 18" rims for winters. Hoping to fit some Nokian hakkapeliita R2 tires on them. Closest size I can find is 245/40/18 for the fronts, and 245/45/18 for the back.
I ran these in this size on my S4 - best snow tires and you get a wear warranty
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      08-10-2014, 10:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridagator View Post

I'm sure more options will materialize as time goes on, but most likely the best option will be the BMW OE winter wheel package.
Any idea how much this package would cost at a (U.S.) dealership?
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      08-10-2014, 12:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
They are great if you don't need to drive in deep snow, slush or ice

I had a set of PA3 on my E92 M3 and actually took them off after the first storm and sold them... they were horrible in deep, wet snow. Dangerous IMO. Amazing on dry pavement but not in bad weather. I went with Blizzak LM-60 for the balance of the winter and they were much, much better. If someone's winters are very light, the Pilot Alpin are probably very good. If they are heavier snow/slush and ice, they are NOT very good. Lots of discussion around forums on how poorly they perform in deeper snow and slush.
So how did the Blizzak LM-60's handle on cold, dry pavement? Your post definitely illustrates the difference between a "winter" tire (PA3) and a "snow/ice" tire (LM-60). It seems that the PA3 would have the performance advantage on cold dry roads or road with moderate or light snow/ice, but if the LM-60's are decent in the dry, I may also switch from PA3's to LM-60's...
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      08-10-2014, 04:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
So how did the Blizzak LM-60's handle on cold, dry pavement? Your post definitely illustrates the difference between a "winter" tire (PA3) and a "snow/ice" tire (LM-60). It seems that the PA3 would have the performance advantage on cold dry roads or road with moderate or light snow/ice, but if the LM-60's are decent in the dry, I may also switch from PA3's to LM-60's...
I'd summarize it this way...

The PA3 was like a really good high performance all season tire. Amazing on cold and dry pavement. OK in a light dusting. A piece of crap in deep, wet or icy snow. Some climates get really dry fluffy powder and it might be better but in our winters we get wet, icy snow. The PA3 was no better than an all season tire in this.

The LM-60 felt like a high performance winter tire on cold and dry pavement. Not sloppy like a Blizzak WS70 but not as firm and responsive as the PA3. In snow/ice, it was more like a real winter tire.

I have been driving RWD cars in Canadian winters for many years without any issues. The only time I had any real "holy shit" or "I'm going to get stuck" moments was with the PA3.

If I only drove the M4 when the pavement was dry, the PA3/PA4 would clearly be the ticket. However, I need to know I can get where I'm going if there is a mid-day storm and I'm at the office, etc. I did not have confidence in the PA3 in that circumstance. IMO, anyone who thinks the PA3 is a good snow/ice tire have never driven it in poor conditions. It is, at best, slightly better than a high performance all season in those conditions.
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      08-11-2014, 07:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I'd summarize it this way...

The PA3 was like a really good high performance all season tire. Amazing on cold and dry pavement. OK in a light dusting. A piece of crap in deep, wet or icy snow. Some climates get really dry fluffy powder and it might be better but in our winters we get wet, icy snow. The PA3 was no better than an all season tire in this.

The LM-60 felt like a high performance winter tire on cold and dry pavement. Not sloppy like a Blizzak WS70 but not as firm and responsive as the PA3. In snow/ice, it was more like a real winter tire.

I have been driving RWD cars in Canadian winters for many years without any issues. The only time I had any real "holy shit" or "I'm going to get stuck" moments was with the PA3.

If I only drove the M4 when the pavement was dry, the PA3/PA4 would clearly be the ticket. However, I need to know I can get where I'm going if there is a mid-day storm and I'm at the office, etc. I did not have confidence in the PA3 in that circumstance. IMO, anyone who thinks the PA3 is a good snow/ice tire have never driven it in poor conditions. It is, at best, slightly better than a high performance all season in those conditions.
Thanks for the insight - very good to know! I had my PA3's for three winters here in Chicago - only a few times did I not have that great of traction - clearly the snow in your area is slushier/icer than in Chicago - but I may still switch to the LM-60's for that extra margin...
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      08-11-2014, 12:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
So how did the Blizzak LM-60's handle on cold, dry pavement? Your post definitely illustrates the difference between a "winter" tire (PA3) and a "snow/ice" tire (LM-60). It seems that the PA3 would have the performance advantage on cold dry roads or road with moderate or light snow/ice, but if the LM-60's are decent in the dry, I may also switch from PA3's to LM-60's...
I'd summarize it this way...

The PA3 was like a really good high performance all season tire. Amazing on cold and dry pavement. OK in a light dusting. A piece of crap in deep, wet or icy snow. Some climates get really dry fluffy powder and it might be better but in our winters we get wet, icy snow. The PA3 was no better than an all season tire in this.

The LM-60 felt like a high performance winter tire on cold and dry pavement. Not sloppy like a Blizzak WS70 but not as firm and responsive as the PA3. In snow/ice, it was more like a real winter tire.

I have been driving RWD cars in Canadian winters for many years without any issues. The only time I had any real "holy shit" or "I'm going to get stuck" moments was with the PA3.

If I only drove the M4 when the pavement was dry, the PA3/PA4 would clearly be the ticket. However, I need to know I can get where I'm going if there is a mid-day storm and I'm at the office, etc. I did not have confidence in the PA3 in that circumstance. IMO, anyone who thinks the PA3 is a good snow/ice tire have never driven it in poor conditions. It is, at best, slightly better than a high performance all season in those conditions.
Have you tried the WS70s before??

I'm considering them for optimal performance in deep snow. I don't care if on dry ground it's sloppy, I can deal with that for the winter months. I've always had dedicated snows with no good dry performance so that's no big deal. Would rather be safer when the roads are covered and they haven't plowed by the time I leave for work.
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      08-11-2014, 01:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdoooh View Post
Have you tried the WS70s before??

I'm considering them for optimal performance in deep snow. I don't care if on dry ground it's sloppy, I can deal with that for the winter months. I've always had dedicated snows with no good dry performance so that's no big deal. Would rather be safer when the roads are covered and they haven't plowed by the time I leave for work.
Find a set of Nokian Hapapelitta R. That is what I will be running this winter. Generally the best snow/ice/slush tire made. The WS70 is also better than the LM-60 especially on ice.

Here are my winter wheels... just arrived. Avant Garde M510 in a satin black powder coat. I plan to run 255/35-19 Hakka R2 in a square set up so they can be rotated. Got them from Golan at Need4Speed... fantastic service and highly recommended.

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Last edited by gthal; 08-11-2014 at 01:17 PM..
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      08-11-2014, 02:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Find a set of Nokian Hapapelitta R. That is what I will be running this winter. Generally the best snow/ice/slush tire made. The WS70 is also better than the LM-60 especially on ice.

Here are my winter wheels... just arrived. Avant Garde M510 in a satin black powder coat. I plan to run 255/35-19 Hakka R2 in a square set up so they can be rotated. Got them from Golan at Need4Speed... fantastic service and highly recommended.

What are the width and offset of the rims?
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      08-11-2014, 02:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
What are the width and offset of the rims?
19x8.5 ET 15.

That was the size Avant Garde recommended to be flush with the fenders and clear the brakes. The front/rear will be ~15mm further out versus OEM with 255 tires. I measured the clearance and it should be good but I haven't test fit them yet. Regardless, AG has guaranteed the fitment when I eventually put the tires on and mount the wheels. I originally wanted a wider wheel but will probably run a narrower winter tire (255 being the absolute widest I would personally use) to get get better winter traction in snow.
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      08-11-2014, 02:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Find a set of Nokian Hapapelitta R. That is what I will be running this winter. Generally the best snow/ice/slush tire made. The WS70 is also better than the LM-60 especially on ice.

Here are my winter wheels... just arrived. Avant Garde M510 in a satin black powder coat. I plan to run 255/35-19 Hakka R2 in a square set up so they can be rotated. Got them from Golan at Need4Speed... fantastic service and highly recommended.

Do they even sell those in America? Haha. The reason why I ask about the WS70s is they're $620 for a set of 4 right now. http://goo.gl/OND3Z5
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