[Minas335]

Hello everyone I have been away from BMW for a few years now but I think I'm ready to come back to the N54.

I use to have a 2010 E92 335i with a few bold-ons. Afe intake, HKS exhaust and a JB3. Loved the car but the car was a lemon so I had to return it. And went and bought a 06 G35 coupe as a daily fun car but not enough power. After that I got a 370z which I leased and now my lease is almost up and I want to buy me a 08-10 E92 again. I have been seeing a lot of threads about building motors... but I can't seem to find anything on pricing I am planning on keeping the car around 450-500whp I know this car can do that on the stock motor but I would like to have an idea on the pricing of a built motor when the time comes.

Vargas Turbo Stage 1 or 2 Hybrid-Turbo Upgrade was the turbos I wanted to go with but I have been reading a lot about built motors and I don't really know what way to go and what prices should I expect.


Here is the list of parts that are going on the car as soon as I get it
JB4
Catless downpipes
HPF exhaust
HPF intercooler
Afe intake
ADVAN AD08 R
and a clutch ready to be replaced.

If you guys could give me some ideas on building motors pricing it would be great.

Thank you will start a build thread as soon as I pick up the car.

[MiniXP]

Originally Posted by Minas335

Hello everyone I have been away from BMW for a few years now but I think I'm ready to come back to the N54.

I use to have a 2010 E92 335i with a few bold-ons. Afe intake, HKS exhaust and a JB3. Loved the car but the car was a lemon so I had to return it. And went and bought a 06 G35 coupe as a daily fun car but not enough power. After that I got a 370z which I leased and now my lease is almost up and I want to buy me a 08-10 E92 again. I have been seeing a lot of threads about building motors... but I can't seem to find anything on pricing I am planning on keeping the car around 450-500whp I know this car can do that on the stock motor but I would like to have an idea on the pricing of a built motor when the time comes.

Vargas Turbo Stage 1 or 2 Hybrid-Turbo Upgrade was the turbos I wanted to go with but I have been reading a lot about built motors and I don't really know what way to go and what prices should I expect.


Here is the list of parts that are going on the car as soon as I get it
JB4
Catless downpipes
HPF exhaust
HPF intercooler
Afe intake
ADVAN AD08 R
and a clutch ready to be replaced.

If you guys could give me some ideas on building motors pricing it would be great.

Thank you will start a build thread as soon as I pick up the car.

A shop by me quoted me $13,000 for a full rebuild on my n54 with stock internals. So I imagine it would be more than that for a fully built motor with forged internals and whatever else you want.

The 13k didn't include labor for removal or installation of the motor, which is costing me a little under 3k+parts. This quote was from a well known BMW motor builder, but they have not done an N54 yet, just put together a quote. I wasn't looking for a built motor, so I just went with a low mileage stock motor from a salvage yard.

[Minas335]

Originally Posted by MiniXP

A shop by me quoted me $13,000 for a full rebuild on my n54 with stock internals. So I imagine it would be more than that for a fully built motor with forged internals and whatever else you want.

The 13k didn't include labor for removal or installation of the motor, which is costing me a little under 3k+parts. This quote was from a well known BMW motor builder, but they have not done an N54 yet, just put together a quote. I wasn't looking for a built motor, so I just went with a low mileage stock motor from a salvage yard.

That is also my other plan or just look for a car with really really low miles and pay a little extra up front

[335NJ]

Originally Posted by MiniXP

A shop by me quoted me $13,000 for a full rebuild on my n54 with stock internals. So I imagine it would be more than that for a fully built motor with forged internals and whatever else you want.

The 13k didn't include labor for removal or installation of the motor, which is costing me a little under 3k+parts. This quote was from a well known BMW motor builder, but they have not done an N54 yet, just put together a quote. I wasn't looking for a built motor, so I just went with a low mileage stock motor from a salvage yard.

That's insane IMO, you can buy a low mileage (30-50k) engine from many sources online for around 3-4k. I think 13k would be a fair estimate for a brand new engine from BMW? I may be wrong.

[bad karma]

Originally Posted by 335NJ

That's insane IMO, you can buy a low mileage (30-50k) engine from many sources online for around 3-4k. I think 13k would be a fair estimate for a brand new engine from BMW? I may be wrong.

Fuck for $13k you're into branded title 335i territory. Just buy a whole car. You can even find 07-08 model 335's with clean titles for under $16k fairly regularly. Why bother with a new motor??

[335NJ]

Originally Posted by bad karma

Fuck for $13k you're into branded title 335i territory. Just buy a whole car. You can even find 07-08 model 335's with clean titles for under $16k fairly regularly. Why bother with a new motor??

Yeah seriously, at 13k + labor for a rebuilt stock engine, I'd say no thanks ill buy a new car.

13k + labor would maybe be fair if it had better pistons, rods, the whole 9 yards, including bigger turbos or something.

[brewnami]

You do not need a built motor for stock frame turbos nor do you need to build the motor for a large single either. This is not a WRX STi, you don't need forged internals as the N54 already has forged rods. If you're looking for 500whp, stick with RB or vargas stock frames, JB4, catless downpipes, intake, charge pipe with BOV or Forge DV's, FMIC, and maybe a meth kit and you will be good to go.

[MiniXP]

Originally Posted by 335NJ

That's insane IMO, you can buy a low mileage (30-50k) engine from many sources online for around 3-4k. I think 13k would be a fair estimate for a brand new engine from BMW? I may be wrong.

Yes it is and yes you can.

I ended up buying a motor with 49k on it for $3700.

a New Short block from BMW is about 12-13k

[Minas335]

Originally Posted by brewnami

You do not need a built motor for stock frame turbos nor do you need to build the motor for a large single either. This is not a WRX STi, you don't need forged internals as the N54 already has forged rods. If you're looking for 500whp, stick with RB or vargas stock frames, JB4, catless downpipes, intake, charge pipe with BOV or Forge DV's, FMIC, and maybe a meth kit and you will be good to go.

I was actually thinking about doing the 50-50 E85 instead of the meth kit. A lot of guys around me run that and no problems with the police because of the smell of running catless

It almost never make sense to pay labor on fixing a broken motor when used ones can be had for cheap.

I brought a 51k mile 2008 F150 V8 motor from LKQ for $1100 shipped, when it arrived it was super clean, runs great.

It was going to cost me around $900 plus labor to replace one of the heads from a blown spark plug, on a 150k mile motor.

I ended up paying a guy around $600 to install it.

[brewnami]

Originally Posted by Minas335

I was actually thinking about doing the 50-50 E85 instead of the meth kit. A lot of guys around me run that and no problems with the police because of the smell of running catless

I have catless downpipes and I don't notice a smell difference, though I still have my secondary cats.

[335NJ]

Originally Posted by brewnami

I have catless downpipes and I don't notice a smell difference, though I still have my secondary cats.

Some people do, and some people don't notice or have any difference in smell. It seems when you have catless DP's and no secondaries that the smell really is noticeable.

[trixdout]

Dude $13k sounds ridiculously high. Think that well known engine builder for bmw's is pulling your chain. I can't see it more than $10k with parts and labor. Parts including a forged crank and forged pistons. For 500hp+ to the wheels, I'd go with a forged crank to limit the chance of flexing under high cylinder pressures.

[Minas335]

Originally Posted by trixdout

Dude $13k sounds ridiculously high. Think that well known engine builder for bmw's is pulling your chain. I can't see it more than $10k with parts and labor. Parts including a forged crank and forged pistons. For 500hp+ to the wheels, I'd go with a forged crank to limit the chance of flexing under high cylinder pressures.

I think when my friend was building his stage 2+ e46 m3 HPF car they quoted him 17k for a build motor with labor, parts... and that engine can handle 800+ wheel

[Whiteout335i]

I have hpf exhaust and catless ar dps. I haven't noticed any smell at all. Before my 335i I had a g35 with gutted cats,now that I could smell.

[LSx]

I'm an engine builder, it can be done for cheaper than that easily with a nearly stock setup...like was said, the factory crank and rods are pretty strong so my first upgrade for the bottom end would be forged pistons with coated crowns and skirts, plus a better ring package and higher boost appropriate gaps. This will take more pressure and power but have a shorter service life due to the loss of the integral steel ring carrier as is found in the oem piston, a hard anodizing may help with this.

If you want to really overbuild it you can put studs in the mains and better rod bolts, but if there's not an off the shelf fastener available that can get pricey, that being said, a seven main bedplate straight six bottom end is about as strong as you can get and rod bolt upgrades address issues that arise from higher revs, not higher horsepower.

For the head, BMW does a good job with port layout so while there's always room for improvement with a production head, it's not going to be a drastic difference especially with an engine already designed for boost. Clean up the pockets and maybe go to some better valve springs if you're really upping the boost and may be spinning it higher.

Regardless, it's likely not needed for your goals, but if you do somehow melt a piston or break a ring land there's other options out there.

[trixdout]

Originally Posted by LSx

I'm an engine builder, it can be done for cheaper than that easily with a nearly stock setup...like was said, the factory crank and rods are pretty strong so my first upgrade for the bottom end would be forged pistons with coated crowns and skirts, plus a better ring package and higher boost appropriate gaps. This will take more pressure and power but have a shorter service life due to the loss of the integral steel ring carrier as is found in the oem piston, a hard anodizing may help with this.

If you want to really overbuild it you can put studs in the mains and better rod bolts, but if there's not an off the shelf fastener available that can get pricey, that being said, a seven main bedplate straight six bottom end is about as strong as you can get and rod bolt upgrades address issues that arise from higher revs, not higher horsepower.

For the head, BMW does a good job with port layout so while there's always room for improvement with a production head, it's not going to be a drastic difference especially with an engine already designed for boost. Clean up the pockets and maybe go to some better valve springs if you're really upping the boost and may be spinning it higher.

Regardless, it's likely not needed for your goals, but if you do somehow melt a piston or break a ring land there's other options out there.

Definitely can agree with the fact that on a turbo'ed factory motor will have stronger rods and crank than more n/a motor cars, but will the 335i's stock crank support 650whp on a long term basis without flexing and wiping the bearings?

[LSx]

Originally Posted by trixdout

Definitely can agree with the fact that on a turbo'ed factory motor will have stronger rods and crank than more n/a motor cars, but will the 335i's stock crank support 650whp on a long term basis without flexing and wiping the bearings?

The OP has an N54, and the one's I've had apart had a forged crank, that coupled with the seven main bedplate bottom end is the most rigid design you can have for an engine. With upgraded rods and pistons I would have no concerns about pushing it like that.

The N55 has a lightened cast steel crank so it's not as strong, but at what level crank flex would become an issue I can't say.

[trixdout]

Originally Posted by LSx

The OP has an N54, and the one's I've had apart had a forged crank, that coupled with the seven main bedplate bottom end is the most rigid design you can have for an engine. With upgraded rods and pistons I would have no concerns about pushing it like that.

The N55 has a lightened cast steel crank so it's not as strong, but at what level crank flex would become an issue I can't say.

So would the n55 need to be sleeved on top of forged rods and pistons for 650whp? And how is the oiling system in the n55's? Is it really good at higher rpms?

[LSx]

Originally Posted by trixdout

So would the n55 need to be sleeved on top of forged rods and pistons for 650whp? And how is the oiling system in the n55's? Is it really good at higher rpms?

I don't know how thick the cast in liners are, but I would imagine that they would be capable of handling that amount of power without the need for a thicker ductile replacement sleeve. That being said, a poor tune can break parts quickly no matter how strong they are, make one run with lots of detonation and cylinder pressure spikes and you could easily end up with a cracked sleeve.