M4 vs 1M vs M5

[SloPoke]

So after selling my AW 1M about a year ago after owning it since new, I feel I may want to come back and play. I'm currently looking at either a 1M with budget left for goodies, a new M4, or a 2013/2014 M5. I know that all three are totally different cars and not often cross shopped. My only stipulation is that the back seat must have room for my two kids- 3 year old and 9 week old. Having driven back 1,000 miles from picking up my 1M in Connecticut with my son when he was 8 weeks old, I know it is doable.

I like the 1M because the rarity, looks and everything else you read about in the reviews. I also jump between cars every 2 years or so, and it will retain its value much better than the other two.

I like the M4 for the lines, interior, and the fact I can spec it out how I like it. I'll be testing one out this week so I will see if it is still on my list afterwards.

The M5 was not originally on my list but after testing one out in anger yesterday, it made me smile and giggle the whole test drive. There is just something cool about something that big going that fast. In sport plus the DCT is downright wicked and it moves out like few things I have ever driven. I don't like however that there is a new one on the horizon and I don't know if the novelty of its acceleration will where off when I can't really chuck it into the corners like the others on my list.

If I went 1M, I'd add full akra evo, KW V3, RB upgraded turbos (not sure if any other options are out since I left), and some ADV.1 wheels. Would also add a CF lip and diffuser from Revo.

If I went M4 I'd add some H&R springs, Meisterschaft GT2, and maybe some wheels when offsets are better known.

If I went M5, it would have similar mods as the M4, it would just have to be spaced out since my piggy bank would be empty after the purchase.

[ASAP]

I still say 1M, that care made me smile more than the M3 on the test drive...

with that being said, the 1M is not worth it right now.

[Dalko43]

Get whatever car you enjoy driving the most.

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I like the 1M because the rarity, looks and everything else you read about in the reviews. I also jump between cars every 2 years or so, and it will retain its value much better than the other two.

The 1M's rarity factor (at least in terms of resale value) is likely to run out soon, especially with the M2 around the corner. If you want the 1M, it would make sense to wait a bit until prices come down.

Originally Posted by SloPoke

If I went 1M, I'd add full akra evo, KW V3, RB upgraded turbos (not sure if any other options are out since I left), and some ADV.1 wheels. Would also add a CF lip and diffuser from Revo.

This I don't understand...with all that money you are thinking about putting into a 1M in order to make it "better" you could just go and buy a M3/M4...and save a few $ going that route over the 1M mod project.

Also, if you are truly focused on outright performance, which it seems you are according to your mod wishlist, the M3/M4 offers much better performance out of the box. Everything a stock 1M does, the M3/M4 seems to do much better....that and the 1M's N54 engine wasn't really designed for track work (no dry sump).

my 2 cents....

[Alex07M3]

M4 all the way, best of both world!

[Cortexiphan]

M4 is the intersection of M5 and 1M.
It's both cars, in the same time. So, M4. (Without any mods though. )

[Axelf]

Well I have owned all of these cars........... Here's my 2p worth...
I had the 1M for just about 3 years it was an amazing car a car that got you noticed if that's what you were wanting and a great car to have fun in.... I loved it but it was becoming a bit too small for my family...... I have two boys 16 and 12... They were always complaining about having to climb in the back when I picked them up and my wife always twisted if she had to get out to let one of them in when it was raining..... So the thoughts ran through my head we need a bigger car......
I was at the wrong place at the wrong time.... Oh dear I was about to find out........ I was at the dealers to get a paint stick for the 1M and they had just pulled in a n M5... It looked great and the price was good too... We took it for a spin and I wanted it..... So I bought it.... I had original ordered an M3 for July delivery but with buying this I canceled the order...
Buying the M5 for me was a huge mistake, it was an amazing car with everything you could think of and the speed was mind blowing... But it was just too big, I never felt comfortable driving it and was always on edge when parking it up and leaving it... I just was not happy with it....
So a trip to the dealer again to get a paint stick of the M5 as I caught the drivers mirror a little... ( see a trend here).... And I got speaking to the sales man I ordered the M3 with and bought the M5 off... He said look that is the M3 you ordered... I thought wow... They had changed the colour from YAS to MW and I loved it... So now toying with the idea of the m3.... He threw me the keys to his Black demo M3 and said go take it for a spin... I had my son with me and we both just loved it.... Took it back and said ok I want it work a price out on it... He gave me the demo M3 for all day and it was perfect for everything I needed...
So I ended up loosing about £17,000 on the M5 as I only had it from new 4 month.... But I love the M3 it reminds me so much of the 1M just with more room.... I think I will be keeping this a little longer the the M5....... Well my wife said I have to or she will divorce me.... Haha

In my opinion go for the M4 or M3 you will not regret it

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

Get whatever car you enjoy driving the most.

The 1M's rarity factor (at least in terms of resale value) is likely to run out soon, especially with the M2 around the corner. If you want the 1M, it would make sense to wait a bit until prices come down.

This I don't understand...with all that money you are thinking about putting into a 1M in order to make it "better" you could just go and buy a M3/M4...and save a few $ going that route over the 1M mod project.

Also, if you are truly focused on outright performance, which it seems you are according to your mod wishlist, the M3/M4 offers much better performance out of the box. Everything a stock 1M does, the M3/M4 seems to do much better....that and the 1M's N54 engine wasn't really designed for track work (no dry sump).

my 2 cents....

and everything on his mod list makes the performance worse

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3

and everything on his mod list makes the performance worse

I always love it when the pure M sentiment comes out. How it is pure gold when it comes off the production line and anything you do after that is screwing things up. I've heard the whole BMW spends millions of hours designing things to work in harmony with each other. As a mechanical engineer, I also know designs are heavily effected by budget constraints. They have a price point for the car as well as having to still keep performance in a certain product segment (below the M3). I'm not sure if you saw, but I've already had a 1M. I have driven it stock, then added a JB4, followed by catless dps, Berk mids, and Meisterschaft cat back. None of that made the performance worse. It was night and day difference. I also know how the stock turbos hit a wall around 5k and just ran out of steam, hence the RB route. As far as the V3's go, they would help performance when properly setup with the proper rebound and dampening. Hell, I could just hit up Harold for a set of his AST's if I really wanted to go bananas. I'll give you the other mods. They are purely cosmetic and most probably effect performance the slightest bit, but who cares. It's not like I'm saying id swap the 19s to 20s.

Now, if we are through with the merits of modifications tangent, lets continue with the original topic if someone has input related to that.

[MichaelJohn]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

So after selling my AW 1M about a year ago after owning it since new, I feel I may want to come back and play. I'm currently looking at either a 1M with budget left for goodies, a new M4, or a 2013/2014 M5. I know that all three are totally different cars and not often cross shopped. My only stipulation is that the back seat must have room for my two kids- 3 year old and 9 week old. Having driven back 1,000 miles from picking up my 1M in Connecticut with my son when he was 8 weeks old, I know it is doable.

I like the 1M because the rarity, looks and everything else you read about in the reviews. I also jump between cars every 2 years or so, and it will retain its value much better than the other two.

I like the M4 for the lines, interior, and the fact I can spec it out how I like it. I'll be testing one out this week so I will see if it is still on my list afterwards.

The M5 was not originally on my list but after testing one out in anger yesterday, it made me smile and giggle the whole test drive. There is just something cool about something that big going that fast. In sport plus the DCT is downright wicked and it moves out like few things I have ever driven. I don't like however that there is a new one on the horizon and I don't know if the novelty of its acceleration will where off when I can't really chuck it into the corners like the others on my list.

If I went 1M, I'd add full akra evo, KW V3, RB upgraded turbos (not sure if any other options are out since I left), and some ADV.1 wheels. Would also add a CF lip and diffuser from Revo.

If I went M4 I'd add some H&R springs, Meisterschaft GT2, and maybe some wheels when offsets are better known.

If I went M5, it would have similar mods as the M4, it would just have to be spaced out since my piggy bank would be empty after the purchase.

It was that insane acceleration in such a luxurious car that hooked me on the M5. Axelf mentioned the same thing. I don't think people realize how fast F10 M5's are until they drive them. They are however large cars. I personally don't mind the size and weight but I am certainly aware of it coming from an E92 M3. For me the trade-off in handling was worth it, it is just a higher-end product. The incredible power is intoxicating and it DOESN'T get old, at least not for me. I've had mine for over a year and I think I like it more now than when I first got it. The cabin is a great place to be and the seats are soooo comfortable. However, if you're looking for tossability you should probably go for the new M3, it's a very nice car. You could almost call it a downsized M5 - and it ain't exactly slow either.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

Get whatever car you enjoy driving the most.

The 1M's rarity factor (at least in terms of resale value) is likely to run out soon, especially with the M2 around the corner. If you want the 1M, it would make sense to wait a bit until prices come down.

This I don't understand...with all that money you are thinking about putting into a 1M in order to make it "better" you could just go and buy a M3/M4...and save a few $ going that route over the 1M mod project.

Also, if you are truly focused on outright performance, which it seems you are according to your mod wishlist, the M3/M4 offers much better performance out of the box. Everything a stock 1M does, the M3/M4 seems to do much better....that and the 1M's N54 engine wasn't really designed for track work (no dry sump).

my 2 cents....

The M4 doesn't have a dry sump either , and has zero camber adjustability in its suspension and weighs 200 pounds more . It's not exactly track focused with that old ass Mcpherson strut front suspension . And the S55 has 78% the exact same parts as the N55 so I wouldn't say the motor is anything special either. , it just comes with better cooling and better top end performance. At least it's easy to get real camber and track prep a 1M . Currently it's impossible to do that to the M3/4. An advanced level driver in an M4 destroyed his outside edge in 3 days at VIR ( which isn't hard on tires ) because it doesn't have enough camber and he couldn't adjust it .

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I'm not sure if you saw, but I've already had a 1M. I have driven it stock, then added a JB4, followed by catless dps, Berk mids, and Meisterschaft cat back. None of that made the performance worse.

While you may have gotten increased horsepower with the JB4 and catless dp's, whether or not its better performance depends on what your goals are. If you want a horsepower increase without worrying about long-term engine reliability or CO2 emission standards...then go ahead and mod away on the 1M.

If you want to drive the next 50-60k miles without worrying about grenading your engine or failing emissions testing, then the m4 would be a better option.

I also think that selling your 1M, at a premium, and buying a M4 or M3 would make more financial sense than continuing to mod what is inherently a car with less performance.

Originally Posted by gmd2003

The M4 doesn't have a dry sump either , and has zero camber adjustability in its suspension and weighs 200 pounds more .

I misspoke. The S55 has wet sump lubrication...so does the N55 which it is based off of. But according to the tech documents, the S55's oil lubrication is much more developed and optimized for track use, much more so than what the N55 (modified pendulum slide oil pump, 18% increase oil delivery, secondary oil pump, ect.).

Also, where did you read that the M4's camber can't be adjusted?

Originally Posted by gmd2003

It's not exactly track focused with that old ass Mcpherson strut front suspension . And the S55 has 78% the exact same parts as the N55 so I wouldn't say the motor is anything special either. , it just comes with better cooling and better top end performance.

Correction: The M4 is not a dedicated track car, like the 911 gt3 or Z06, but it was built with track use in mind. Yes it does share many engine components with the N55 and N54, but it also has increased oil lubrication, increased cooling, a 2nd turbo, reinforced internals, ect.

By comparison, the only difference between the 1M's N54 and a regular E9X 335i's N54 is that the 1M received a tune and a secondary radiator and oil cooling unit. The N54 was not designed with track use in mind. Rather after BMW saw the cooling problems in the early N54 engines, they incorporated the additional cooling as a quick "fix."

The S55 is an engine suited for track work, the N54 needs a bit more work and mods to keep it track worthy.

Originally Posted by gmd2003

At least it's easy to get real camber and track prep a 1M . Currently it's impossible to do that to the M3/4. An advanced level driver in an M4 destroyed his outside edge in 3 days at VIR ( which isn't hard on tires ) because it doesn't have enough camber and he couldn't adjust it .

Okay, before you start making baseless claims, can you please provide a link that shows the M4 can't adjust its camber. Can you provide a link that shows this guy destroying his tires after 3 days of VIR. We are trying to have an honest conversation about the 1M vs the M4, not start a flame war.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

While you may have gotten increased horsepower with the JB4 and catless dp's, whether or not its better performance depends on what your goals are. If you want a horsepower increase without worrying about long-term engine reliability or CO2 emission standards...then go ahead and mod away on the 1M.

If you want to drive the next 50-60k miles without worrying about grenading your engine or failing emissions testing, then the m4 would be a better option.

I also think that selling your 1M, at a premium, and buying a M4 or M3 would make more financial sense than continuing to mod what is inherently a car with less performance.




I misspoke. The S55 has wet sump lubrication...so does the N55 which it is based off of. But according to the tech documents, the S55's oil lubrication is much more developed and optimized for track use, much more so than what the N55 (modified pendulum slide oil pump, 18% increase oil delivery, secondary oil pump, ect.).

Also, where did you read that the M4's camber can't be adjusted?



Correction: The M4 is not a dedicated track car, like the 911 gt3 or Z06, but it was built with track use in mind. Yes it does share many engine components with the N55 and N54, but it also has increased oil lubrication, increased cooling, a 2nd turbo, reinforced internals, ect.

By comparison, the only difference between the 1M's N54 and a regular E9X 335i's N54 is that the 1M received a tune and a secondary radiator and oil cooling unit. The N54 was not designed with track use in mind. Rather after BMW saw the cooling problems in the early N54 engines, they incorporated the additional cooling as a quick "fix."

The S55 is an engine suited for track work, the N54 needs a bit more work and mods to keep it track worthy.



Okay, before you start making baseless claims, can you please provide a link that shows the M4 can't adjust its camber. Can you provide a link that shows this guy destroying his tires after 3 days of VIR. We are trying to have an honest conversation about the 1M vs the M4, not start a flame war.

Not making claims at all, look over in the track section and speak to a BMW tech.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1019314
So far as the N54 vs S55 on track we know nothing of the S55's longevity yet but with proper cooling they should both be very similar. Not knocking the M4 , at all its a better car than the 1M , its just not really close to being track ready either. That is not BMW's focus anymore unfortunately. My friend just ran a 2:09 on the VIR full course on stock brakes and PSS tires in his bone stock C7 Z51 vette. Another member just posted his best time of 2:15 on the VIR full course with 275 square RA1's and aftermarket pads on a M4. The C7 is a track ready car including a fully adjustable front and rear suspension , the M4 is a great street car that you can take to the track. The advantage of the 1m currently if you want a modern BMW track car is it has a ton of aftermarket parts to make it seriously track capable.

[SloPoke]

Guys I'm liking the good info. Keep it coming. I want to like the M4 enough to get it but two things are throwing me- 1) The M4 spec'd to what I want is $71k. The 1M I can find for around $55-58k. 2) The depreciation on the M4 could be much worse than the 1M, depending on what the M2 does to the 1M.

And dammit, the M5 is still a cool ride with all the bells and whistles and in a league different than the other two in regards to materials, features, etc. I have no freaking idea which one I want. Why oh why can't I be happy with a Honda or Toyota and drive it until the wheels fall off.....

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Not making claims at all, look over in the track section and speak to a BMW tech.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1019314

Alright, let's wait and see what others have to say before you start pushing off hearsay as fact. Maybe the m4's camber can be adjusted, maybe it can't...but right now your are basing your claim off of one forum post.

Originally Posted by gmd2003

So far as the N54 vs S55 on track we know nothing of the S55's longevity yet but with proper cooling they should both be very similar. Not knocking the M4 , at all its a better car than the 1M , its just not really close to being track ready either.

Except that the N54 and S55 are not very similar...the additional cooling and oil lubrication and reinforced internals aside, the N54 lost grunt/torque past the 5000 RPM range, while the M4's S55 seems to pull nearly all the way to redline. The N54 had serious cooling issues, and even the later versions put in the 335is and 1M have had some issues during repeated laps, while the S55 has been track tested and so far no one has noticed simliar issues.

I think every knows that the M4 is not as track focused as a corvette or 911, but we are not comparing the M4 to either of those cars...we are comparing it to the 1M and M5. The M4's S55 is a much improved version of the N54 and has so far proven to be much more capable around the track.

If you are worried about mod availability...give it a few months. The M4 has just hit the markets...I'm sure the aftermarket will starting putting out M4-specific parts shortly.

[Karmic Man]

Aftermarket parts for M4 will be much more expensive than those for a 1M.

If car purpose includes regular track use than get the 1M as maintenance cost would be lower and more fun in a short wheelbase car.

I can't understand why you need other people to convince you which car to buy as you the ONE driving it and you have driven all of them.

[MichaelJohn]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Why oh why can't I be happy with a Honda or Toyota and drive it until the wheels fall off.....

It's a disease. You can't cure it, you can only hope to contain it.

Btw, many of the bells and whistles on the M5 are now available on the M3/4. HUD (I can't live without it now), lane departure warning, collision warning and all the cameras and parking sensors (I think). I believe it's lacking soft-close doors, butt massage, ventilated seats and the foot-operated trunk lid. I sat in the new M3 at a dealership when I was having some service done on my M5 and I was impressed with the cabin and the seats. If it had been available when I bought my M5 I would have had a tougher decision. But, on the whole the M5 is just a notch above and now I'm spoiled.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by MichaelJohn

It was that insane acceleration in such a luxurious car that hooked me on the M5. Axelf mentioned the same thing. I don't think people realize how fast F10 M5's are until they drive them. They are however large cars. I personally don't mind the size and weight but I am certainly aware of it coming from an E92 M3. For me the trade-off in handling was worth it, it is just a higher-end product. The incredible power is intoxicating and it DOESN'T get old, at least not for me. I've had mine for over a year and I think I like it more now than when I first got it. The cabin is a great place to be and the seats are soooo comfortable. However, if you're looking for tossability you should probably go for the new M3, it's a very nice car. You could almost call it a downsized M5 - and it ain't exactly slow either.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Aftermarket parts for M4 will be much more expensive than those for a 1M.

If car purpose includes regular track use than get the 1M as maintenance cost would be lower and more fun in a short wheelbase car.

I can't understand why you need other people to convince you which car to buy as you the ONE driving it and you have driven all of them.

I don't need people to convince me one over the other. I have not driven the M4 yet. I'm simply asking for some comparisons from people who may have owned a few of these.

[SOM3]

Once you twat drive M3/4 your choice will become clear.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I don't need people to convince me one over the other. I have not driven the M4 yet. I'm simply asking for some comparisons from people who may have owned a few of these.

Then go test drive an M3/M4. Its unclear from your first post what u r looking for by starting this thread.

I saw a blue M3 today on the street and it looks nice. To fit a small family it would be perfect.

[TahoeM3]

Originally Posted by SOM3

Once you twat drive M3/4 your choice will become clear.

I think you mean test drive, unless there is something new that I don't know about...

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Aftermarket parts for M4 will be much more expensive than those for a 1M.

You may be right on that. But then again why would you buy a brand new car, only to void the warranty and spend even more money through modifications? The M4 comes out of the box with an engine and chassis that was prepped for the track...it doesn't need much work or modding to make it track worthy (maybe upgraded brake fluids and pads).

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

If car purpose includes regular track use than get the 1M as maintenance cost would be lower and more fun in a short wheelbase car.

Well seeing as the M4 is newer than the 1M and is still under warranty...I don't see the M4 costing more to maintain over the next few years. The 1M, especially one that is modded, will likely need more upkeep.

As for which one is more fun (1M or M4) that's entirely subjective.