Northwest& tires

[Lups]

Hi,

Probably a stupid question, but I've shredded mine already by series of accidental acceleration mishaps. Winter is coming, and I have maybe a few thousand km on those left, but what are you driving in the winter times with? The no snow ruins a lot of the fun here, but I don't think a new set of the ones Peter came with is the answer, temperatures are a bit low here for those.

If your answer is an SUV, don't bother. I have one, and I have no intention to be stuck with it so many months.

[Wah]

If you plan on getting Morr rims, I would suggest buying a set of winter tires to mount on your OEM 19" rims, and put summer tires on the Morrs. Even if there is not a lot of snow, I'm sure it gets pretty cold there. As of now, the only option of tires on tirerack.com for the OEM rims are Pirellis Sottozeros which I had on my last car. They are fine on cold/wet/dry pavement.... not summer tire/summertime performance, but usable. I do not know for sure how they are in the snow.

But you have an Audi for that...

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Wah

If you plan on getting Morr rims, I would suggest buying a set of winter tires to mount on your OEM 19" rims, and put summer tires on the Morrs. Even if there is not a lot of snow, I'm sure it gets pretty cold there. As of now, the only option of tires on tirerack.com for the OEM rims are Pirellis Sottozeros which I had on my last car. They are fine on cold/wet/dry pavement.... not summer tire/summertime performance, but usable. I do not know for sure how they are in the snow.

But you have an Audi for that...

Lol, Audis tires are no way legal anywhere else than Russia anymore. Someone left the car home and ran away, and came back to bad tires. I was not me who did the damage as usual.

The thing is, in Finland I'd know what to get, hell in Canada I'd manage, but Seattle? I have no idea how the winters actually are here, but I know me, and I won't without it being a matter of life and death ( as in endangered hippo needs a lift and you know how they poop, that would not get into Peter but with Audi I'm fine lol) Peter will be my ride.

Oh shit, I'll go stalk the E9 something boys and ask @powerslide. He too has an Q7 so he probably has gone through a lot too just to avoid driving it.

[kilpatds]

I don't have an M4 yet, but I've driven overpowered rear wheel drive cars in winterish weather, and also in seattle.

IMHO, Performance all seasons is good enough, except for that one time a year it actually snows. I live in west seattle, and in the last 2 winters, I've seen 3 instances of snow/ice on the ground. Yeah, driving the 'Vette home in the snow (on performance all-season tires) wasn't ... safe. But it was fun and it was rare.

That said, I went and budgeted for performance snow tires and expect to order a set (already mounted) once I know when the car will actually show up.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by kilpatds

I don't have an M4 yet, but I've driven overpowered rear wheel drive cars in winterish weather, and also in seattle.

IMHO, Performance all seasons is good enough, except for that one time a year it actually snows. I live in west seattle, and in the last 2 winters, I've seen 3 instances of snow/ice on the ground. Yeah, driving the 'Vette home in the snow wasn't ... safe. But it was fun and it was rare.

That said, I went and budgeted for performance snow tires and expect to order a set (already mounted) once I know when the car will actually show up.

My problem is the lack of snow, on that I'm solid, water is more of a problem with me.

We moved here just in time to see the huge snow storm of last year (1inch) and it got me thinking today when I saw my rear tires in the sunlight. Thanks for the input, lets stay safe(r) in the becoming crash season!

[kilpatds]

Thus my Vette is on Performance All Seasons right now.

The actual rain amounts usually aren't very high. There will just be zero days where the roads are dry and the temperatures are high. So summer tires don't work well: they will never be the right tire. Winter tires are rarely the right tire (there is rarely actual snow). So I ended up on the Performance All Seasons as my winter tire.

For my wife's STi, we alternate snow tires/summer tires. That car spends more time in the mountains than mine does, and so the snow tires seem like they pay off more.

I'm planning on snow tires for the M4 as my winter tire set, but that's because I'm assuming I'll be driving it more than I usually drive the Corvette... and am guessing that once they wear out, the replacements will be all-seasons again (all seasons in the winter, summer tires in the summer)

[Sir Loin]

For the last 10 years I drove my E46 M3 year round on summer tires. Even when it is below freezing, the summer tires I had were drivable as long as there is no snow and that you are not driving at insane speed.

The few days that it snowed, don't drive. Take the bus, stay at home. It is not that I don't know how to drive in snow (I lived in Alberta and North Dakota), it is the other people who drive in snow with their summer tires, not on snow, but on ice.

There isn't enough sanding on the road during snowy days. And the temp is usually above freezing in the day, and below freezing in the night. So you get a sheet of ice over night. Unless you have snow tires that you can bite into ice, you are going nowhere, or you are going somewhere wherever your momentum takes you. Even if you have snow tires, you don't want to drive next to other summer-tire people. Your M3/M4 deserves better than that. When it snow, just stay home, or drive your Audi winter beater.

[Wah]

Originally Posted by kilpatds

Thus my Vette is on Performance All Seasons right now.

The actual rain amounts usually aren't very high. There will just be zero days where the roads are dry and the temperatures are high. So summer tires don't work well: they will never be the right tire. Winter tires are rarely the right tire (there is rarely actual snow). So I ended up on the Performance All Seasons as my winter tire.

For my wife's STi, we alternate snow tires/summer tires. That car spends more time in the mountains than mine does, and so the snow tires seem like they pay off more.

I'm planning on snow tires for the M4 as my winter tire set, but that's because I'm assuming I'll be driving it more than I usually drive the Corvette... and am guessing that once they wear out, the replacements will be all-seasons again (all seasons in the winter, summer tires in the summer)

The problem with all season tires is that they are a compromise in all conditions. Never great in the warmer months, never great when cold. Convenient? Sure! But you are giving up a lot of traction to not have to change out your tires.

One misconception about winter tires is that they are just for the snow. This is not true at all (there is a studless snow tires category for that). As we know, summer tires turn into hockey pucks below 45ºF (7ºC), and are pretty dangerous when driven in cold weather. They are also completely useless in the snow. The rubber compound in winter tires is formulated to provide the most traction below 45ºF on wet or dry pavement. So if the cold and wet months are what you are worried about, then a dedicated set of winter tires is still the best choice. Yes it is a pain in the ass... but if you want the most grip in the winter without giving anything up the rest of the year, this is the only way to do it.

Of course, you can probably get by with summer tires year round if you drive conservatively when it gets cold, and take the bus (or an Audi Q7) when it snows, as Sir Loin does. Seattle doesn't stay cold for too long, so this is probably doable for most people. But we all know @Lups doesn't do conservative driving.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...s-track-tested

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...vs-summer.html

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Wah

The problem with all season tires is that they are a compromise in all conditions. Never great in the warmer months, never great when cold. Convenient? Sure! But you are giving up a lot of traction to not have to change out your tires.

One misconception about winter tires is that they are just for the snow. This is not true at all (there is a studless snow tires category for that). As we know, summer tires turn into hockey pucks below 45ºF (7ºC), and are pretty dangerous when driven in cold weather. They are also completely useless in the snow. The rubber compound in winter tires is formulated to provide the most traction below 45ºF on wet or dry pavement. So if the cold and wet months are what you are worried about, then a dedicated set of winter tires is still the best choice. Yes it is a pain in the ass... but if you want the most grip in the winter without giving anything up the rest of the year, this is the only way to do it.

Of course, you can probably get by with summer tires year round if you drive conservatively when it gets cold, and take the bus (or an Audi Q7) when it snows, as Sir Loin does. Seattle doesn't stay cold for too long, so this is probably doable for most people. But we all know @Lups doesn't do conservative driving.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...s-track-tested

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...vs-summer.html

Hey now! I'm conservative! I'm sure I am, I'll even google the meaning of the word soon to know for sure!

Wah you have traumas clearly about me and wheels. Thanks, you just handed out nicely the words I needed to actually study this subject a little more. I can't believe how bad my English has gotten.

[kilpatds]

I put summer tires on the car in summer. The question is all seasons or snow tires in winter ... When there is almost never snow or ice. (Its a hair too cold on a regular basis for summer tires. And enough standing water to also make me very uncomfortable.)

Perf. All Seasons are the better choice. (Snows are also excellent in these conditions, yes. They just wear out quicker.)

[Wah]

Originally Posted by kilpatds

I put summer tires on the car in summer. The question is all seasons or snow tires in winter ... When there is almost never snow or ice. (Its a hair too cold on a regular basis for summer tires. And enough standing water to also make me very uncomfortable.)

Perf. All Seasons are the better choice. (Snows are also excellent in these conditions, yes. They just wear out quicker.)

Sorry, but this makes no sense. If you are going to make the effort to switch out your tires in the winter, and put the summers back on when it gets warm, why wouldn't you get winter tires? All seasons do not have better wet/dry road traction than winter tires in the cold. Plus, there is the added benefit of snow traction in the rare event that there is some snow accumulation. Resistance to hydroplaning in standing water is a function of tread pattern more than rubber compound, so that is not a factor here. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here. I'm just not following your logic.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Wah

Sorry, but this makes no sense. If you are going to make the effort to switch out your tires in the winter, and put the summers back on when it gets warm, why wouldn't you get winter tires? All seasons do not have better wet/dry road traction than winter tires in the cold. Plus, there is the added benefit of snow traction in the rare event that there is some snow accumulation. Resistance to hydroplaning in standing water is a function of tread pattern more than rubber compound, so that is not a factor here. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here. I'm just not following your logic.

Yeah, this.

Winter tires aren't just for snow, as wah said earlier they stay soft enough to grip in cold weather when summers or even all seasons get too hard.

@lups, get good performance winter tires but pay no attention to snow ratings. Michelin PA3s are a good performance winter as are Pirelli sottozeros.

Just be aware that the 'extra soft rubber compound' that makes winters works may be prone to faster wear.....and if you already chewed up one set of tires, don't be surprised if these don't latest years and years.

Also strongly second idea of dedicated wheels for the winter rubber. Well worth the money in hassle and less wear on the bead and rims than pulling the tires on and off each season.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Yeah, this.

Winter tires aren't just for snow, as wah said earlier they stay soft enough to grip in cold weather when summers or even all seasons get too hard.

@lups, get good performance winter tires but pay no attention to snow ratings. Michelin PA3s are a good performance winter as are Pirelli sottozeros.

Just be aware that the 'extra soft rubber compound' that makes winters works may be prone to faster wear.....and if you already chewed up one set of tires, don't be surprised if these don't latest years and years.

Also strongly second idea of dedicated wheels for the winter rubber. Well worth the money in hassle and less wear on the bead and rims than pulling the tires on and off each season.

Heh. I'm already stalking the Canadians in this, but as you said, I won't have a long lifespan to expect from any rubber. That is an issue I have to deal with one day.

[solstice]

Lups, I drive on performance tires all year around. Done that for my 15 years in Seattle. The few snow or frozen rain days we have I work from home or commute with my wife in our SUV. I probably should not recommend doing that but since you are Nordic and grown up with all kinds of conditions and know how to both judge conditions and drive accordingly or not drive you'll be fine with new PSSs. Best road tires ever but does behave like summer tires in cold weather. I'll never put anything else on my performance car in Seattle, the weather just isn't bad enough for anything else to make it worth it, for me.

Btw just returned from a Linkin Park concert at the Gorge. Holy crap, did they set that place on fire. Awesome band, awesome setting.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by solstice

Lups, I drive on performance tires all year around. Done that for my 15 years in Seattle. The few snow or frozen rain days we have I work from home or commute with my wife in our SUV. I probably should not recommend doing that but since you are Nordic and grown up with all kinds of conditions and know how to both judge conditions and drive accordingly or not drive you'll be fine with new PSSs. Best road tires ever but does behave like summer tires in cold weather. I'll never put anything else on my performance car in Seattle, the weather just isn't bad enough for anything else to make it worth it, for me.

Btw just returned from a Linkin Park concert at the Gorge. Holy crap, did they set that place on fire. Awesome band, awesome setting.

Cheers Sol, I was wondering about your opinion about this, since we share the early training. I don't think my current back wheels have many days left in them, so I will get new ones of those anyway. I'm thinking about the winter solutions, its my school bus, so a half ass job is not an option in this. I'll read your words again after coffee. At the moment its pointless to try to understand any written or spoken language.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Lups

Cheers Sol, I was wondering about your opinion about this, since we share the early training. I don't think my current back wheels have many days left in them, so I will get new ones of those anyway. I'm thinking about the winter solutions, its my school bus, so a half ass job is not an option in this. I'll read your words again after coffee. At the moment its pointless to try to understand any written or spoken language.

Believe it or not but schools generally close here when there is snow... If you can borrow the Audi for any exception you should be ok.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by solstice

Believe it or not but schools generally close here when there is snow... If you can borrow the Audi for any exception you should be ok.

I'm too stubborn!

Nah, the truth is most of the drivers here scare the shit out of me, and I want to be comfortable driving in the ways I've always done, and tires are a good an easy fix on many things. Getting out of the way seems to be the only thing that works.

Now, that said, I looked into some weather stats here, and snow is not a problem indeed, even if I wanted it to be. I also know myself, and even a hint of snow will take me out to look for trouble every time. It also is a factor that I drive at nights mostly when milk is needed so temperatures are lower then.

So, after coffee Lups had this to say apparently to shorten it up a bit: I do not plan to be reasonable.

Also, thanks to wah and the rest of you (yes, I didn't have the vocabulary again), I got a shit load of stuff to google and study. I might be a little different and mostly insane, but I still like going home in one piece in the end.

[UniqueCheese]

I need to do this research too.

See, my car accidentally came with the 20s, not the 19s I wanted, specifically to put winter tires on the 19s and have the morrs. I sold the 20s, before I thought about it .. so .. The question is .. do I want to trust other people not to slide into the M5 ... or do I buy a jeep-like thing and put up with being cold when I get in to it in winter and not care if other retards crash in to it?

Is it weird that I'm not logged in to the M5 forum, but I am logged in here?

[Lups]

Originally Posted by UniqueCheese

I need to do this research too.

See, my car accidentally came with the 20s, not the 19s I wanted, specifically to put winter tires on the 19s and have the morrs. I sold the 20s, before I thought about it .. so .. The question is .. do I want to trust other people not to slide into the M5 ... or do I buy a jeep-like thing and put up with being cold when I get in to it in winter and not care if other retards crash in to it?

Is it weird that I'm not logged in to the M5 forum, but I am logged in here?

Hey U! Coffee/ Cheese at the QFC next week at some point?

Yes, the other drivers are my big problem too. That's why I've been thinking about this non stop. I'm trying to get the 19" to be the winter rims, since accidentally they don't have any rubber in them for an other summer.

Take H with you, let's talk about the important pre marital issues, tires.

[Xerxes480]

Good thread. Contemplating the same question: what tires/wheel to put on for our wet winter months?

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Xerxes480

Good thread. Contemplating the same question: what tires/wheel to put on for our wet winter months?

Where here are you?

Peter needs a new set badly, I just can not decide what with stuff him. I'm seriously going to make the hubby go research this to the office car park soon, with snow I'd know my shit but wet and cold I'm out.

[Xerxes480]

Originally Posted by Lups

Where here are you?

I'm in the Redmond, WA area. Cold and wet most of the winter, but snow is a possibility (especially since I live on a big hill).

For some reason when I plug in the car on Tire Rack, only the Winter Sottozero Serie II tires come up. They look good, but there has to be more options than that, right? And no 18s come up.