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      10-28-2014, 11:33 PM   #1
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F80 6mt track review - Harris Hill Austin

This is my track review of my F80 at Harris Hill in Austin. I met up with a bunch of guys from another BMW forum, and we had a little get together at the track this weekend. It was awesome

See below for a link to the track. Its a short (1.8 mile), technical course with lots of elevation changes and a lot of bumps. Safe runoff areas which is important when tracking your DD haha.

http://harrishillroad.com/

Overall, the cars we had on track with us were

997.1 gt3
F80 M3 (me)
997.2 gt3
e36 m3 track car
imola e46 track car with aero
imola e46 track car
black e46 track car
[B]458 speciale
2004 sti which exploded on track (everyone was ok)
GTR modded and really fast
s2000s
miatas
cayman r

This was the first time ive tracked it, and the car still had temp tags on :shifty:

The car was totally stock down to the brake fluid, and I have steel brakes and 6mt. I also did not mess with tire pressures at all, I was just getting a feel for the car and the track. This was my first time at HH.

I have about 6 weekends worth of track experience, and am a blue solo driver, so intermediate level. I have average driving skills, nothing special.

In general, I just learned how to track with DSC off the last weekend I had on track prior to this car. So, I have low level car control skills, certainly cant drift a car and have never tried it. But, I can keep the car on track and avoid spinouts (so far haha)

Ill do this review by categories

Brakes

Very surprising and impressive. Little to no fade, and very powerful. Really didn't give up much to rave's gt3 in performance (drove his car for a few laps, awesome). Nothing negative to say about them at all. The stock pads performed well above expectations, though I generated a TON of brake dust and I think wore them down a decent amount. There aren't a lot of good choices for race pads yet, so ill wait to get some better pads when more choices are available. The good thing is the new fixed caliper design allows for quick removal of pads front and rear without taking the calipers off.

Suspension

God damn its awesome. A little bit of body roll, but the car is SO stable and understeer is minimal. The car has very good traction, especially in higher speed sweepers. Very confidence inspiring.

The track is VERY bumpy, but the cars shocks kept the car under control so well its beyond belief. Everyone kept talking about how bumpy and crazy the track surface was, but in my car I didn't really have issues. Once I did some laps in the gt3, I realized how well my car was dealing with them. My head smacked the ceiling twice on his car, and I was pushing maybe 75%.

Steering for me, was fantastic. Very well weighted and very easy to point and shoot. No issues at all, I love it. Much easier for me than the e9x steering on track. I didn't like the variable ratio e9x steering, this was much smoother to me.

The easiest way to get around the track in this car for me was to late apex most turns and just get straight and back on the power ASAP.

MDM is garbage, and basically neuters the car and makes it feel like its understeering in the corners bc of the outside wheel braking. I picked up 6+ seconds a lap with it off. Turning DSC off was much quicker and though the car will oversteer, imo its very easy to control. I had a near spin and was able to correct it and keep moving forward. Fastest laps have a little sliding in them in the slower corners in my experience so far.

Engine

HOLY F*CK. So fast. It was eating everything on the track in a straight line save the 458 (obviously) and a modded gtr which was FYLING out there.

Torque, linear power, consistent power with zero drop off, it has it all. Excellent engine, my favorite ive ever driven on track. Temps didn't move at all, rock solid.

Overall impressions / lap times

The car is a blast to drive. Sure, its a little big for a track car, and that is a little bit of a negative when directly compared with a gt3. Its not as direct as that car, and is slower to react.

Its easy to drive, but still is so capable that its also challenging to continue to push it.

I started out not ever having driven the track, so the first part of the day in the morning and afternoon was spent learning the lines. Ridiing with monocrom3 and brakelate was very helpful in accelerating this process.

I started with MDM on, which was so intrusive its unbelievable. Its basically useless on track except for rainy conditions, new drivers, or just learning a new track safely. It was pulling power on the straights, just everywhere. My best lap times with MDM on were 1:36's.

I then took off MDM and ran full traction off. I drove conservatively as I was trying to slowly approach the limits and see how the car would react. Perhaps due to my wussiness, the car was not prone to snap oversteer, and was very controllable. I had no major issues with traction and slowly began to get a feel for the car and push it.

The 997.1 gt3 and I were neck and neck all day, and towards the end we got on track together on a pretty open track and were running consistent 1:30s and 1:31s (improved by 1 second+ day 2). I think its fair to say we both were leaving a lot of time on the table by being scared and not knowing how far we could push the cars.

Overall, a blast on track in stock form. Nothing really felt like it was holding me back. I will add wider wheels and tires, but mainly just to make it feel a little better, get a little more stable and stick a little more. I will also swap to a more aggressive tire, but this really isn't necessary. That and race pads is really all I need.

Cant wait to get it back out there, and will definitely do so soon. Harris hill was awesome, and having all of the m3f guys out there was great. Evyerone was cool as hell, and it was a very fun and positive environment. It was also super safe, and everyone was very aware and friendly on track.

Awesome car, awesome day. More track time asap

EDITED : to add vid. this is from this morning, where I was feeling more comfortable with the car and the track. TC fully off, definitely some oversteer and sliding, but easy to handle. had a near spinout at the top of the hill on a prior session, but was able to catch the spin and keep the lap going.

best lap here is 1:28.71, consistently 129.xx-130.xx. still slow in general and turning in too early at the top of the hill, and inconsistent on some of my braking zones. a lot to work on.

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Last edited by Black Gold; 10-30-2014 at 07:55 AM..
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      10-29-2014, 09:12 AM   #2
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Nice review. Thanks for posting!

Did you monitor your tire pressures at all? Looks like they might have been getting a little warm half way through the video?
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      10-29-2014, 09:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
Nice review. Thanks for posting!

Did you monitor your tire pressures at all? Looks like they might have been getting a little warm half way through the video?
they were over 40psi hot coming off the track, even after a 10 minute cool down. they were definitely getting greasy and were sliding a lot more. they wore quite a bit on the edges in the front as well.

I purposefully didn't mess with tire pressures at all as I just wanted to focus on driving the car in stock form and learn it as is. I will try to destroy these tires asap so I can replace them with some tires more suitable to track like re-11 or ad08r when I get my wider wheels. I will certainly experiment with tire pressures in the future. I don't see myself doing anything more than new tires and race pads to this car for the time being. I love this cars dual purpose nature, and want to preserve it.

thanks for the comments. im not nearly the driver a lot of guys here are, and this was my first time in my car and on this track. it was fun as hell though
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      10-29-2014, 09:26 AM   #4
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Nice review. Glad you had fun.
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      10-29-2014, 09:44 AM   #5
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Glad you had this much fun. Dual purpose cars are my favorite it seems the F8x is up to the job.
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      10-29-2014, 11:30 AM   #6
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Kenny,

Great write-up, thanks for sharing! BTW, I've never heard of Harris Hill before and come to find out it's just a few miles from where my parents live, let me know if there is another opportunity to go out there. It looks like it's generally reserved for members but perhaps there are occasional events you can sign up for?

I also wanted to ask if you ever make it out to Driver's Edge events at MSR Houston, TWS, or Cresson? I'm planning to be at the January TWS event. BTW, there is also a special 2-day event at COTA in December that I unfortunately can't make happen this year, if you can make it out there you should. I would definitely advise doing pads and fluid before then though and monitoring tire pressures after runs.
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      10-29-2014, 01:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Esq View Post
Nice review. Glad you had fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
Glad you had this much fun. Dual purpose cars are my favorite it seems the F8x is up to the job.
thanks guys, and yes, the m3 is all I can handle that's for sure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mobbin View Post
Kenny,

Great write-up, thanks for sharing! BTW, I've never heard of Harris Hill before and come to find out it's just a few miles from where my parents live, let me know if there is another opportunity to go out there. It looks like it's generally reserved for members but perhaps there are occasional events you can sign up for?

I also wanted to ask if you ever make it out to Driver's Edge events at MSR Houston, TWS, or Cresson? I'm planning to be at the January TWS event. BTW, there is also a special 2-day event at COTA in December that I unfortunately can't make happen this year, if you can make it out there you should. I would definitely advise doing pads and fluid before then though and monitoring tire pressures after runs.
thanks, mobbing. harris hill is a lot of fun, and is very safe which I like. its not too hard to get on as a guest, just call the owner.

I used to run some with DE, but honestly, I don't expect to in the future. IMO they don't include enough track time and more importantly there are FAR too many cars on track at the same time imo. Its dangerous, and a lot of time sessions end up wasted when you are either the slow car and getting passed the entire time, or you are held up in traffic. its just not for me.

COTA is interesting at some point, but I have heard from my friends that it is brutally tough on street cars, and im not sure I want to deal with that. its also very expensive for HPDE there, and with all the walls, im just not sure I would make the most of it as I would be pretty nervous to push my car out there. one day I would love to do it when im more confident with my car and skills, or have a dedicated car to use.

at this point, im more interested in getting involved with open lapping days / private days than HPDE, although I enjoy PDS at TWS. it was a revelation to do it this way at harris hill. more fun, more relaxing, more track time, and safer IMO. win on all fronts.
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      10-29-2014, 01:50 PM   #8
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Great review, glad you enjoyed the car

I share your impressions, they are very similar to mine.

Did you get a chance to touch the intercooler right after coming off track? It's pretty darn impressive .
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      10-30-2014, 07:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Great review, glad you enjoyed the car

I share your impressions, they are very similar to mine.

Did you get a chance to touch the intercooler right after coming off track? It's pretty darn impressive .
thanks, man! you have way more track experience to me, so its cool that we share impressions of the car.

and YES, I did mainly because I read your review that it was cold to the touch. and 100% it is cold to the touch.

im super impressed with this car on the street and track, its perfect for me for a do it all car. its too heavy to be perfect for the track on low speed technical tracks, but sliding it around a little is really fun. its got a ton of pace on track even on a track like this that is not ideal whatsoever for the m3.

it could use a little less weight, but that's probably true of almost any car

how are you enjoying yours?
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      10-30-2014, 10:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post

thanks, mobbing. harris hill is a lot of fun, and is very safe which I like. its not too hard to get on as a guest, just call the owner.

I used to run some with DE, but honestly, I don't expect to in the future. IMO they don't include enough track time and more importantly there are FAR too many cars on track at the same time imo. Its dangerous, and a lot of time sessions end up wasted when you are either the slow car and getting passed the entire time, or you are held up in traffic. its just not for me.

COTA is interesting at some point, but I have heard from my friends that it is brutally tough on street cars, and im not sure I want to deal with that. its also very expensive for HPDE there, and with all the walls, im just not sure I would make the most of it as I would be pretty nervous to push my car out there. one day I would love to do it when im more confident with my car and skills, or have a dedicated car to use.

at this point, im more interested in getting involved with open lapping days / private days than HPDE, although I enjoy PDS at TWS. it was a revelation to do it this way at harris hill. more fun, more relaxing, more track time, and safer IMO. win on all fronts.
Thanks again, good to know the option is out there and I'll definitely check out Harris Hill at the next opportunity. Good to know that about COTA as well, I have not been out there yet but perhaps I should save it until I have a little more seat time in anyway. Also wanted to mention that I have not been frustrated with the amount of cars on track with DE over the last many events, so it may be worth checking out again if you are so inclined. I've really had a good time with them every time and enjoyed the instruction as well. I am in the Blue group and solo certified if that helps. I also haven't done any open lapping days or private days so I'll be sure to check that out when there is an opportunity. Thanks for trading notes and have fun out there!
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      10-30-2014, 11:51 AM   #11
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SUCKER! If you had DCT you could have hit 1:27.x :P

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      10-31-2014, 08:42 AM   #12
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Awesome review Kenny.

I've been playing a bit with where the rear breaks loose in terms of throttle application in sport in straight lines, minor turns, mid-turn, etc....this is all on empty street roads, not a track, so I'm literally just finding it out. MDM on.

The car is eerily controllable to me and I find MDM not that intrusive WHEN I can back off (not something you'd want to constantly)...

However, I think I'd actually spend my track time in "efficient" throttle mode, especially on a technical track.

Also, the other day on a empty road with a sharp banked uphill and run-off on both sides of the road, with a wet road, I hit the throttle pretty solid mid-turn in sport mode to see how quickly it would swing the rear end out.

I had an "Oh shit" moment and MDM saved me. I mean the car rotated a solid 45 degrees before MDM slammed it back straight and it did it so fast I didn't even have time to react.

Now granted, I was being deliberately stupid and was at low-ish speeds and expecting MDM to save me (it did) just to feel the traction threshold on a wet road in a turn....and in the annals of the stupidity, this is the exact same spot I spun my e39 m5 off-road in the wet with DSC off....

Anyway, rambling on 2 hours of sleep. Point being I loved your review and I really think we need to figure out how to get more accelerative traction in this car. From a handling and braking perspective, it's got plenty of lateral traction and ability to stop itself....

But it overloads those PSS too easily and the point is to maintain dual purpose, which PSS are pretty much the most perfect tire for....so how do we increase accelerative traction without losing the dual purpose tiring?
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      10-31-2014, 01:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
However, I think I'd actually spend my track time in "efficient" throttle mode, especially on a technical track.?
The "anti-lag" features are not activated in Efficient mode and the engine throttle response becomes sluggish and sometimes even unpredictible in this mode at the track (I've tried it). My preffered mode is Sport+ which I find precise and linear, but Sport works well too (I used Sport on a wet track).

See my post here about jerky throttle inputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Also, the other day on a empty road with a sharp banked uphill and run-off on both sides of the road, with a wet road, I hit the throttle pretty solid mid-turn in sport mode to see how quickly it would swing the rear end out.

I had an "Oh shit" moment and MDM saved me. I mean the car rotated a solid 45 degrees before MDM slammed it back straight and it did it so fast I didn't even have time to react.
If one does something really stupid, the car will get a fair bit out of shape before MDM reels it back in. However, if one drives relatively smoothly but decently fast on a track, MDM does constant minute and useless interventions as soon as it senses some slip angle. This is very anoying and slows you down significantly. It also puts a lot of pointless heat in the brakes. I found MDM utterly useless for a dry track (the US version, I have not tried Euro MDM).
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      11-03-2014, 01:28 AM   #14
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nice.

but COTA has no walls does it?
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      11-03-2014, 01:47 AM   #15
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Hi Kenny - thanks for the track review.

What do you think of the F80 6MT compared to some of the other cars (GT3) you drove?
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      11-03-2014, 02:03 AM   #16
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Thanks, Kenny. Been to Harris Hill quite a few times over the last six years. It is a fun track, but hard to be really fast as it is more technical than people realize. Thanks for sharing

This was my 2006 M3 at Harris Hill

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      11-03-2014, 08:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Thanks, Kenny. Been to Harris Hill quite a few times over the last six years. It is a fun track, but hard to be really fast as it is more technical than people realize. Thanks for sharing

This was my 2006 M3 at Harris Hill

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      12-07-2014, 01:56 PM   #18
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What was your favorite throttle map? Sport or Sport Plus?

Sport throttle mapping seems easier to modulate, but that turns on the auto rev-match which seems to slow down the up shifts.
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      04-27-2015, 02:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zcchen View Post
What was your favorite throttle map? Sport or Sport Plus?

Sport throttle mapping seems easier to modulate, but that turns on the auto rev-match which seems to slow down the up shifts.
Hey guys, is there any way to disengage the auto rev-match without changing the throttle sensitively settings?
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