[Sniz]

I am really hoping that someone can chime in and help the select few of us that are having problems holding higher boost. I have recently installed the Forge DV's which helped in stabilizing my boost, but it is still below where it should be w/ V2.

I know the only way I can be positive that I don't have a small boost leak somewhere is to perform this test.

I have purchased an air compressor capable of holding 10-20psi or up to 120psi. I bought couplings for the air hoses that can be screwed into PVC caps.

the one thing I cant decide on is where is the best location to pressurize the system. I would REALLY like to find a way to do this without removing my Intercooler again which will require removal of my front bumper which takes several hours to uninstall/reinstall.

2 options that I can think of w/ out removing ther intercooler are

1) remove airbox and put PVC end caps in both outpipes from the airbox to the turbo's. I don't think anyone has done this yet. I can hook up my compressor to both caps at the same time w/ 2 different hoses. My main concern is that since this is before the turbo's this area of the induction system is not designed to hold boost....correct?

2) Remove the frontmost Diverter Valve Silicone hose from the boost pipe and attach a cap there using another silicone hose. This would pressurize from after the intercooler, but wouldnt the air just end up coming out of the airbox after passing back through the turbo's? Could this possibly damage the turbo's sending pressurized air through them backwards??

and

3) Remove intercooler and pressurize after the intercooler. If I do this, I intend to test the intercooler itself once its removed. Of course I wouldn't have to test the intercooler by itself if I could figure out a location to test the entire system at once.







I'm prepared to remove the intercooler again, just want to exhaust all other options before I tear the front of my car apart again.


Thanks guy

[O-cha]

Dude you should really get a gauge and try the bypass plugs before you go through the trouble.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Dude you should really get a gauge and try the bypass plugs before you go through the trouble.

I'm doing that w/ in the next 2 hours on the local dyno. I'll report back if I find anything there. I drove the car for a day w/ the bypass plugs in a week ago and did not throw any codes, so I am no anticipating finding anything this way......but it would be nice!

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I'm doing that w/ in the next 2 hours on the local dyno. I'll report back if I find anything there. I drove the car for a day w/ the bypass plugs in a week ago and did not throw any codes, so I am no anticipating finding anything this way......but it would be nice!

No I meant you may come to find that with the bypass plugs in that your car runs normal boost, then try again with the stock procede map ETC.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by O-cha

No I meant you may come to find that with the bypass plugs in that your car runs normal boost, then try again with the stock procede map ETC.

Ok so you meant restart from step 1 w/ the Procede. go back to stock and then run 90% and so son.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Sniz

Ok so you meant restart from step 1 w/ the Procede. go back to stock and then run 90% and so son.

Step one? If step one is bypass plugs then yes. If it runs normal boost (6-8) then run the stock procede map, still good? Go back to fiddling with the full tuned map.

Maybe it's just my personal experience talking but I would point a finger at the more complicated part of the system first and try to eliminate it as the problem rather than chasing phantom problems with the car. My car ran perfect stock, and with the stock map, but the second the tuned map went on things went bad. That's a clear indication of the problem, of course I, like you, put my faith in the wrong thing and did all sorts of things with my car to find out what was wrong with it. Of course nothing was.

All I'm saying is you're putting fault on the car despite, as far as I can tell, no real indication that there's something wrong with your car. BTW you had v1 right, ran fine right?

[OpenFlash]

You have an upgraded intercooler, right? If so, you will/should be seeing lower intake temps than the rest of us. With lower intake temps, your boost pressure will be dialed down. Boost will rise as a function of intake temp as we've all see before. If you do a 2nd to 3rd to 4th gear datalog, you will see more boost towards the end of the run. Also, just curious, did you update your firmware with a laptop running Vista?

shiv

[O-cha]

Sniz, haven't you been chasing this for like a month now?

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Sniz, haven't you been chasing this for like a month now?

yup! and its getting old fast.

I just put the bypass plugs back in, disconnected the battery about 30 minutes ago. I'm going to the dyno shortly where we'll be hooking up a boost gauge and laying down a baseline stock w/ the plugs in. If the car holds the correct 6-8psi then I'll take the bypass plugs out and have at it and see where I stand.

It is quite possible that I don't even have a problem and just expect to see the 14-15psi like everyone else. As Shiv just said the low psi may be due to the intercooler. If thats the case it will suprise me though as I'm barely getting 12psi at 94 and 96%.


so its back to square one and see what I can do on the dyno stock and at 94%.......if the numbers look good, the boost looks stable, and the car is happy. Then I'll let it rest.



Otherwise as the title of this thread states, I really want to get this boost leak test done and rule that out before I chase any more phantom problems. It really would be nice to go out and enjoy the car!

[O-cha]

Yea if you make the power then it's all good. See if they have an OBDII hookup and you can log IATs. (what I found interesting/annoying whatever you want to call it was that you're just now given this explanation.)

[O-cha]

Oh yea, make sure you bring a flash drive so you can get the dynos.

[XS4]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You have an upgraded intercooler, right? If so, you will/should be seeing lower intake temps than the rest of us. With lower intake temps, your boost pressure will be dialed down. Boost will rise as a function of intake temp as we've all see before.
shiv

Shiv I have heard you mention this in previous posts also and would like to ask you, this sounds as if you are saying lower (better) IATs will cause Procede to penalize you with less boost resulting in worse power.

Please clarify this and explain why Procede dials back the boost. Is it just because colder IATs allow the controller to request less boost to achieve the same target #'s? In other words, the turbos can work less hard to meet those numbers and the end power result is the same?

Also, if the requested psi of boost were NOT dialed back to compensate for lower IATs,
what would this "extra power" created by full boost + colder air do that would be unsafe?

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by XS4

Shiv I have heard you mention this in previous posts also and would like to ask you, this sounds as if you are saying lower (better) IATs will cause Procede to penalize you with less boost resulting in worse power.

Please clarify this and explain why Procede dials back the boost. Is it just because colder IATs allow the controller to request less boost to achieve the same target #'s? In other words, the turbos can work less hard to meet those numbers and the end power result is the same?

Also, if the requested psi of boost were NOT dialed back to compensate for lower IATs,
what would this "extra power" created by full boost + colder air do that would be unsafe?

I think you are correct........it looked like most of the users are seeing less boost when its really cold out. Just ask down4it.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by XS4

Shiv I have heard you mention this in previous posts also and would like to ask you, this sounds as if you are saying lower (better) IATs will cause Procede to penalize you with less boost resulting in worse power.

Please clarify this and explain why Procede dials back the boost. Is it just because colder IATs allow the controller to request less boost to achieve the same target #'s? In other words, the turbos can work less hard to meet those numbers and the end power result is the same?

Also, if the requested psi of boost were NOT dialed back to compensate for lower IATs,
what would this "extra power" created by full boost + colder air do that would be unsafe?

You're not being penalized, colder air is denser air. Presumably the same amount of oxygen or more is entering the cylinder. Or that's how it should be anyway.

[down4it]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I think you are correct........it looked like most of the users are seeing less boost when its really cold out. Just ask down4it.

Yeah the outside temp has a big effect on boost. I see like 10-11psi when its 50 and below. When its over 70 outside i see 14-16psi on the same setting without any changes to the PROcede settings.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by XS4

Shiv I have heard you mention this in previous posts also and would like to ask you, this sounds as if you are saying lower (better) IATs will cause Procede to penalize you with less boost resulting in worse power.

Please clarify this and explain why Procede dials back the boost. Is it just because colder IATs allow the controller to request less boost to achieve the same target #'s? In other words, the turbos can work less hard to meet those numbers and the end power result is the same?

Also, if the requested psi of boost were NOT dialed back to compensate for lower IATs,
what would this "extra power" created by full boost + colder air do that would be unsafe?

It's is not the PROcede that reduces boost as intake temps go down. It is the factory ECU. This is all explained in the v2 documentation. And this is not a penalty as far as I'm concerned. The last thing I want a car to do is to run 15psi of boost when intake temps are very low. This would cause a lean run. Remember guys, we don't have gobs of overhead when it comes to the limits of the DI fuel system. So it's very important to balance boost pressure with air density. As air density goes up, boost pressure goes down. And visa versa.

This characteristic is not isolated to PROcede applications. It's just that we are the only ones to provide the user with the ability to actually see this behavior through the software. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea since it causes so much concern and confusion

Shiv

[XS4]

thanks for clarifying Shiv,
I'm still running stock boost for now so I dont have the V2 info.
Still, I didn't consider the lower boost a penalty, I just wanted to know what were the limiting factors.
And that would be fueling.

[Sniz]

Ok made it to the dyno.......good news, good power.

I'll start a new thread. I'll stop bugging everyone now.

Oh, and the car still only made 12psi on the dyno w/ no fan on the intercooler.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Sniz

Ok made it to the dyno.......good news, good power.

I'll start a new thread. I'll stop bugging everyone now.

Oh, and the car still only made 12psi on the dyno w/ no fan on the intercooler.

Why bother dyno testing if there is no fan on the intercooler/radiator?

Shiv

[O-cha]

Probably to test the theory that lower charge air temps are making the lower boost.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Why bother dyno testing if there is no fan on the intercooler/radiator?

Shiv

wanted to see if my car was making ok power....i thought it was, and it is. Power felt good, but psi was down below what I was expecting.

Worthwhile IMO.....saved me from tearing into the front end to do a boost leak test

[SGP335i]

Ill meet up this weekend and we can see how the two cars compare, if you want.