[e46e92love]

Before you flame me for bringing up the same one tuner v. another war, RELAX AND JUST CONTINUE READING, BECAUSE I'M NOT DOING THAT....


I don't know if anyone has really paid very close attention to the Dyno graphs of these tunes as they compare to each other (rather than just the numbers of max tq and hp) but has everyone noticed how much flatter the Attache curve is and even Procede V2 as compared to Dinan and stock? I was about to get the Dinan flash and still think its a great tune when I suddenly realized that the graphs seem to indicate that the Dinan tune starts to die in the 5800-7000 rpm range when Attache (and I believe Procede as well) stay strong to redline (albeit a little decline).

Any thoughts on what thats about? Is it just simply Dinan running lower max boost? Shiv, and any other tuners please chime in with your .02 if you got the time.

No flame wars guys, just a discussion.

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THEIR .02

EDIT: FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO JUST LOVE TO FIND WAYS TO ARGUE RATHER THAN GIVE SOME GOOD INFO, IF SOMEONE CAN POINT OUT A DYNO WITH CURVES DIFFERENT THEN THESE, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT. We all have seen dozens of dyno graphs with VERY similar curves. So speak to that please.

Dinan


Attache


Procede V2

[Mr. 5]

You can't compare dynos that were done on different dynos.
You just can't.

[dadasracecar]

You can't compare numbers but the shape of the curve should be reproducible. Falling off at high rpm isn't dyno dependent.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar

You can't compare numbers but the shape of the curve should be reproducible. Falling off at high rpm isn't dyno dependent.

If that's the only thing that you want to compare then I'll give you that. But look at the scaling.
The scaling on every graph is different. Make the scaling the same on every graph and make them the same size and then I'll compare them.

[E90ice]

Wonder how long it will take until the flames begin.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Wonder how long it will take until the flames begin.

I miss the old e90, this place used to be like e46fanatics where you can get information from people without attitude.

[335boosted2Dmax]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I miss the old e90, this place used to be like e46fanatics where you can get information from people without attitude.

E46FANATICs, was the WORST. Is that a joke I have been on e46 website since 2003. There are so many spoiled and immature kids on that site its not even funny, e90post is alot better than e46

[DrDomer]

I think Dinan is much more concerned about temps and reliability. My guess is that you're giving up some high RPM performance for that. I suspect that is why they demand you have an oil cooler or their oil cooler also. If they didn't warranty I don't think their curve would look like that. Just my ignorant two cents.

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Wonder how long it will take until the flames begin.

I don't see a need for flames. He has a very good point.

The scaling isn't that big of a deal. It's not like one is log scale and one is natural log. They're all linear scale, so take a closer look and you can clearly see his point.

[e90AW335i]

It would be nice if you could get the files (.drf?) for each and just put them on the same chart.

[Archibald Donnington]

great observations e-love.
aaron

[bronco]

I noticed the same thing on the DINAN flash, but always assumed that it was because the cars were dynoed right after the flash, and were still adapting to it...

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by kyleh4852

It would be nice if you could get the files (.drf?) for each and just put them on the same chart.

That's what I'm talking about.
Does the dynamics have a drf file though?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

That's what I'm talking about.
Does the dynamics have a drf file though?

I am not to sure, but if people send me their dyno files (regardless of the format), I am sure that I can figure it out. I would just like to see them on the same graph (hope I dont get banned...lol, joking mods)

[revah2]

This thread is completely useless and your comparisons are very invalid
Different Dyno, Different day, Different car

[bronco]

Originally Posted by revah2

This thread is completely useless and your comparisons are very invalid
Different Dyno, Different day, Different car

Sorry, but the thread is not useless. It points to something that should be looked into.
Yes, you are right about the dynos, but if you look at dynos from Proceed for example, from different days on different cars - you will notice a resemblance in the curve (not exactly the same, but the pattern should be the same)

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by kyleh4852

I am not to sure, but if people send me their dyno files (regardless of the format), I am sure that I can figure it out. I would just like to see them on the same graph (hope I dont get banned...lol, joking mods)

That would be great, Turbo Fan has suggested to me that if we can get him the original data he can put together a graph and smooth things out.

I'm sorry again about the different dynos, but hopefully most of you understand where I am going with this and what I saw. Just would be curious to see how the different tunes compare in terms of shape of the torque/HP curves.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by revah2

This thread is completely useless and your comparisons are very invalid
Different Dyno, Different day, Different car

Originally Posted by bronco

Sorry, but the thread is not useless. It points to something that should be looked into.
Yes, you are right about the dynos, but if you look at dynos from Proceed for example, from different days on different cars - you will notice a resemblance in the curve (not exactly the same, but the pattern should be the same)

Exactly bronco, finally some common sense used. Yes, different dynos different days, but the BASIC CURVES shouldn't differ that much.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by revah2

This thread is completely useless and your comparisons are very invalid
Different Dyno, Different day, Different car

Unless each dyno has the stock run aswell. That way we CAn compare the deltas between the 3 "tuners" and see the differences. Granted, each new run would have to be added to the discussion, but patterns can be established!

Remember, no other tune has control of the engine like the DINAN, so i'd trust the depth of such a tune would have superior reliability.

Time will tell!

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

That would be great, Turbo Fan has suggested to me that if we can get him the original data he can put together a graph and smooth things out.

I'm sorry again about the different dynos, but hopefully most of you understand where I am going with this and what I saw. Just would be curious to see how the different tunes compare in terms of shape of the torque/HP curves.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Hey man, worst come to worst we can try and pick out points on the delta and throw them in excel to create a graph. I know it would be crude replacement for real dyno graphs, but at least it would be something.....

[jprall]

Pardon the noob post, but I wanted to jump in. Dinan developed his software on my car. Built the oil cooler, exhaust, suspension, his entire 335 catalog of parts available now and 'coming soon' on my car.

I have my own dyno sheets which came from Dinan's DynoPacks which are _____ than DynoJet. Insert higher or lower, depending on how your day is going. I have found that the dyno comparison thing is nothing to make any real decisions over.

There is a question of power falling off after 6K RPM. The short answer is yes. In fact because of the size of the turbos, revving past 6K has been described as simply making noise. Who knows, maybe someone else has figured out past 6K, but I figure I would confirm that question from my experience. Shift points and power band are really nice matched shifting at ~6K

I have not asked Steve directly but I don't think this is because he's playing it safe. I've seen my PSI at 13.8. If I had to describe it, I would put it as the software lets the turbos go full bore as soon as they can and as long as they can but they cannot continue to feed that kind of pressure past 6K. It's just my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

Now, on the positive side of things. The car is stupid fast. I have had an E39 M5, an E46 M3 and I think this thing is simply a beast.

I do run 100 Octane Union 76 Gas exclusively (5.39/gal). Steve dynos with 93 octane which is what the rest of country gets. That's the dyno sheet I have. I haven't done a dyno run with 100 octane, but I will say the car absolutely loves the good stuff. Steve mentioned the power difference between 91 and 93 and I remembered a similar issue when the E39 first came out and I did Euro Delivery on it in '97. I drove from Munich all the way to London. Gas is great out there. When I got the car home, I noticed the power difference pretty quickly. So with that, I run 100 octane. Station is near work.

Now for some fun experiences with the car...

I have been glued to the bumper of a new 911 turbo all the way to 150mph (yeah, I looked down and said Holy S__t). A souped up GTO 6.0 was completely smoked from 60 to 130 twice. He just had to talk to me on the freeway about what I had. I told him it was too much to explain but turbos are cool.

I'm insanely happy with what Steve did with my car.

I personally don't want a piggyback computer. (I know and respect Shiv) I have respect for Steve cracking the real code where I think once the entire ECU is opened up, there are many more things you can do than what piggybacks can. I think direct ECU flashing is far more elegant. Also, the fact that the dealers have the software is awesome. I dont want to disconnect anything before going in. Today it seems like if they put your car on the lift it gets a software upgrade wiping out any other mods. Having the dealer put Dinan's software back in, sending me on my way with my stupid fast car and a "Have a nice day." I'll take it.

These are my opinions only. I'm not saying anyone else should feel the same or differently, it is just my experience. Happy to answer questions.

Next chapter - How frickin awesome are oil coolers?

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

I think Dinan is much more concerned about temps and reliability. My guess is that you're giving up some high RPM performance for that. I suspect that is why they demand you have an oil cooler or their oil cooler also. If they didn't warranty I don't think their curve would look like that. Just my ignorant two cents.

That is what Dinan states in their blurb: they diminish high end torque because that is where the reliability problems are. It's too hard on the engine, ITO.