[BmwFlooner]

So, my poor 12 year old Eclipse may have to be retired soon. I've been tracking and autocrossing it, but the repair and maintenance is starting to get to the point where it doesn't make sense not to invest that money in performance parts for my 335i.

I'm fairly new to the whole performance driving scene, and BMWs, so I don't know what to expect from normal wear & tear and maintenance costs if I start taking the BMW out. I'm also not sure what to expect from long-term performance driving. We're talking maybe 1 event a month.

Or does it make sense to get another dedicated track car (My wife actually offered that suggestion, which blew my mind.)

My BMW is an F30 335i M-Sport 6MT with DHP. A dedicated track car would need to be in the 15k range, so it would need to be a used 'something'. Preferably a RWD coup.

What would you guys do?

[nicknaz]

EDIT: Miata (always the answer!)

In all seriousness, I think you should start by swapping tires on the 335 to see how you like it. I've had good luck with dunlop zii

[BmwFlooner]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

EDIT: Miata (always the answer!)

In all seriousness, I think you should start by swapping tires on the 335 to see how you like it. I've had good luck with dunlop zii

I'm not ruling out a used Miata. I'm also not ruling out a used S2000.

[G30 B58]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

I'm not ruling out a used Miata. I'm also not ruling out a used S2000.

S2000 gets my vote.

I've owned my '00 for the last 11 years. I've done at least 2 events every year in it. VERY low consumable costs and reliability has been top notch.

Failures on the track have been limited to a clutch spring breaking and 1 cracked rotor.

All that said, our new 435i M-Sport with all the options will see the track in 2015.

[BmwFlooner]

I'd prefer to use my 335, but I'm not sure what to expect from durability and maintenance.

Are these cars 'actually' designed to be driven hard? Or do you need to prepare them?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

I'd prefer to use my 335, but I'm not sure what to expect from durability and maintenance.

Are these cars 'actually' designed to be driven hard? Or do you need to prepare them?

For sure you need to swap out the RFT and likely will need to change the front brake pads.

The contisportcontact5 RFT on my wife's 335 start to chunk after one session at buttonwillow. They were a joke.

I think you should take it out for a session and give it a shot. I personally don't think the F30 is a great choice for a dual purpose car based on my experience with it but then again, I realize my experience was clouded by the stock RFT and the fact I have a non m sport with means 290F+ oil temps and power reduction

[Forgiven]

335I M sport is a great car for dual purposes. Get a set of wheel and tire with stock set up, you will be amazed.

[vanbmw]

I vote for track car. Take out as much weight as possible. You will be shocked how much the carpet/sound insulation of a car weighs. If it has a rear seat...it goes. I have a few buddies that have done this and this is what they have:

late 90's Mustang 5L.

Yes I know crude track car. However, take out the rear seats. Stiffen up the suspension. Free up intake and exhaust and you are good to go. Need more power? Supercharge it. Tons of options for not bad prices. The main reason my buddy chose the mustang...tons of cheap parts at auto wreckers. He has founds lots of go fast parts sitting on crashed cars and bought the parts for cheap. Need a new alternator...cheap. New power steering pump...cheap. Actually once we dialed out the understeeer it is a fun track car. It has proven fairly reliable.

911

Coworker had a 1987 Carrera. Lots of aftermarket parts. Pull out rear seats and carpet, stiffen suspension and you are good to go. Add some SS brake lines and new brake pads also. Really rewarding car to drive. This will teach you about how to handle a RWD car. Also...he has used this car on the track for years and it has been vertually bullet proof. Great car.

RX7 Twin Turbo

buddy got one of these for a steal beacuse it needed a new turbo and a new Apex seal. Parts are not easy to find and not cheap. However, he says car is really easy to work on. He cranked up boost and the car is FAST. Very challenging to drive but lots of fun. Great track car. Only expensive repair was engine computer needed replacing. Pricey.

Another buddy of mine got a E46 M3. Great car but he has had some scary repair costs. Parts are not cheap and not always easy to find. It is a great car and spectacular on the track but be careful. The Miata is a fun tack car...will teach to conserve your momentum. Check with your local track first as some track do not allow convertibles on the track or they require a roll bar.

[JK1320]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

EDIT: Miata (always the answer!)

In all seriousness, I think you should start by swapping tires on the 335 to see how you like it. I've had good luck with dunlop zii

I love my Zii's. I am running them on my WRX currently. I went from stock size 225/45/17 on the factory 17x8's to 255/40/17 on 17x9 RPF1's. What an improvement. So wide, so light, so racecar lol

[BmwFlooner]

Thanks for the feedback all. My preference really is to use my 335 as a dual purpose. I'm a beginner as far as performance driving goes, and right now I just want to get out and have fun, not really worry about pushing the car to 10/10ths. I think once I reach a point where I'm considering mods that would make the car uncomfortable for street driving, it's time to start thinking about a dedicated track car. Or if the occasional autox and track weekend is going to tear up the BMW and become a money pit, a dedicated track would be better.

But if I have to put money into a car, I'd rather it be the 335. But my main worry is while BMW's are marketed as 'performance' machines that they might not actually hold up to the rigors of performance driving.

[The HACK]

It's a sad day when everyone on a BMW forum is telling you to NOT track your 3 series.

BMWs used to be called the "ultimate" driving machine, because that's what they are. Fresh off the show-room floor they will go tear up the race track like few other cars on the market, and get you there and back COMFORTABLY while seating 4 (4 wheels and tires, that is. You know, so you can swap them out at the track).

It used to be that BMWs of yesterday's legend were as comfortable on track as they are on the street, as god (or BMW engineers) intended them to be. It certainly doesn't look that way anymore, when an econobox from the land of rising sun is a better choice of a track weapon as recommended on a BMW forum.

Sad day when my Hyundai Veloster Turbo, my daily commuter, probably has seen MORE track time than 99.99% of all the 3 series BMWs sold in People's Republic of California. As it is rolling off the showroom floor (well, not exactly. Had to replace the factory Kumho Souless tires with $70 'Champiros,' whatever they are, after ~3 years).

[BmwFlooner]

Originally Posted by The HACK

It's a sad day when everyone on a BMW forum is telling you to NOT track your 3 series.

BMWs used to be called the "ultimate" driving machine, because that's what they are. Fresh off the show-room floor they will go tear up the race track like few other cars on the market, and get you there and back COMFORTABLY while seating 4 (4 wheels and tires, that is. You know, so you can swap them out at the track).

It used to be that BMWs of yesterday's legend were as comfortable on track as they are on the street, as god (or BMW engineers) intended them to be. It certainly doesn't look that way anymore, when an econobox from the land of rising sun is a better choice of a track weapon as recommended on a BMW forum.

Sad day when my Hyundai Veloster Turbo, my daily commuter, probably has seen MORE track time than 99.99% of all the 3 series BMWs sold in People's Republic of California. As it is rolling off the showroom floor (well, not exactly. Had to replace the factory Kumho Souless tires with $70 'Champiros,' whatever they are, after ~3 years).

The only reason I've seen anyone recommend against the BMW (on this forum) is simply due to maintenance. The argument here is to buy a beater that doesn't cost much to maintain.

I haven't seen anyone argue that another car is more 'fun' to drive, as implied by your econobox argument.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by The HACK

It's a sad day when everyone on a BMW forum is telling you to NOT track your 3 series.

I don't think that's quite it. I re-read the thread and we are telling the OP to change tires, and that there are many inexpensive track cars that are equally fun and potentially more cost effective. It seems like pretty balanced advice

[tjlees]

I'm not quite I'd want to continually trackday a £50k ($75k) 1.7t car with nice expensive 19s and m sport package brakes regardless of the upgrades.

Ok for the occasional use though, and I'm looking forward to putting mine on track to see how it performs.

Anything more than one or two trackdays really requires a light weight car otherwise you will be throwing money a tires, brakes, bearings and other suspension related parts (well, I certainly did) and continually been overtaken by lightweight cars with very good power to weight ratio! (But that might because I'm a sh*t driver)

[BmwFlooner]

That's pretty much what we're talking here. The occasional track day, autox. At most once a month.

[Burnt C6]

I Auto X my 328i every month I switch out the RF for 255/35 18's on 9" Apex ARC-8 wheels before I head to the event. It saves me right at 13# of weight a wheel. I would suggest you get the Oil Catch Can for it .I know some people say there is no real reason to but why worry. It’s a $120 cost and 15 minute install for some peace of mind. I’m taking her for her first HPDE event at COTA this weekend. The plan is in two years to buy the wife a 5 series and make the 3 a track only car.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

That's pretty much what we're talking here. The occasional track day, autox. At most once a month.

I hear you and long as it is light use you should be ok.

For me every third-fourth trackday (200ish miles 4 hours driving over 8hrs) resulted in new tyres, and every sixth required new pads. Also changed the oil before the trackday.

This was a 3000lb 350bhp car and the first year I used it (about 8 trackdays) I was £6000 ($9000) down because of the tyres, pads, discs and oil changes plus bent alloy on a off. I quickly swapped to a dedicated 1100lb 300hbp track car. Its lightness Meant I've only gone through one set of pads/discs in 10 years, and though the tyres only last a little longer on track they are 50% cheaper in cut slick style. Plus the maintenance cycle is much cheaper - full suspension overhaul (springs, shocks, rose joints and a bent upright) was less than £1700 ($2500)

[BmwFlooner]

Thanks tjlees, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I think my plan for the near future is to continue to track my Eclipse but autox my BMW to start getting a feel for it in an environment that doesn't send me spinning off into the dirt at 80mph.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by BmwFlooner

Thanks tjlees, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I think my plan for the near future is to continue to track my Eclipse but autox my BMW to start getting a feel for it in an environment that doesn't send me spinning off into the dirt at 80mph.

Sounds good!

[drob23]

I didn't read through this super close, but I'm surprised no one suggested a brake fluid flush. I'd say that is the most important maintenance step. Bleed in new race fluid, something like Motul RBF 600. Then between events, bleed out the nasty fluid in each caliper and put some fresh fluid in there.

Also, glad to hear good things about the ZII. I just picked up a set of VMR V810's for a dedicated track setup, and 18" ZII's are only like $170 on clearance at TR, due to the new ZII SS coming out. Was thinking about trying NT01, but I'm still learning so I'll stick with street tires for now.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by drob23

I didn't read through this super close, but I'm surprised no one suggested a brake fluid flush. I'd say that is the most important maintenance step. Bleed in new race fluid, something like Motul RBF 600. Then between events, bleed out the nasty fluid in each caliper and put some fresh fluid in there.

Also, glad to hear good things about the ZII. I just picked up a set of VMR V810's for a dedicated track setup, and 18" ZII's are only like $170 on clearance at TR, due to the new ZII SS coming out. Was thinking about trying NT01, but I'm still learning so I'll stick with street tires for now.

Good point!

I tended to boil the hydraulic fluid (in the days before electric steering) well before the brake fluid.

It best to be on track for around 20mins or five or six laps in a road car after the warmup and cool down laps, otherwise you will overheat various bits of the car.

Track cars tend to take much more abuse, so tend to stay out for 30mins a session with little cool down time between sessions - when I'm with a friend to share the costs.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by tjlees

I quickly swapped to a dedicated 1100lb 300hbp track car.

That's AWESOME!

Is that a radical of some sort?