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      01-02-2015, 01:54 PM   #1
Shawn Dover
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CCB disadvantages?

I don't need the CCB's for the track, but I'd spend the money for the look and cleanliness alone. What bothers me, though, is that they seem to have some disadvantages over the steel brakes for daily use: (1) Squeaking at low speeds; (2) worse performance when cold; (3) the risk of exorbitant repair costs resulting from rock chips or getting tire dressing/wheel cleaner on the rotors.

What have been people's experiences with these issues on the M3/M4?
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      01-02-2015, 02:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Dover View Post
I don't need the CCB's for the track, but I'd spend the money for the look and cleanliness alone. What bothers me, though, is that they seem to have some disadvantages over the steel brakes for daily use: (1) Squeaking at low speeds; (2) worse performance when cold; (3) the risk of exorbitant repair costs resulting from rock chips or getting tire dressing/wheel cleaner on the rotors.

What have been people's experiences with these issues on the M3/M4?
You'll probably get a strong response for the first comment (if you need to spend $8k that bad, I'm sure many here have better suggestions ) but the other thing to note is the difficulty of getting other wheels (ie winter wheels, etc). There are few options for those with CCBs
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      01-02-2015, 02:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
You'll probably get a strong response for the first comment (if you need to spend $8k that bad, I'm sure many here have better suggestions ) but the other thing to note is the difficulty of getting other wheels (ie winter wheels, etc). There are few options for those with CCBs
Doesn't BMW make the 641m's for the CCB's? That's probably what I'd get for winter.
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      01-02-2015, 02:14 PM   #4
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I had CCB's on a series of Ferrari's (360 CS, 430 Scuderia, 458) and over the years CCB's have become progressively better. The generation 1 CCB's on my 360 CS were tricky when cold and I nearly rolled into my gates several times when starting out. All of my CCB's have had some squeal, I can't speak for the M4's as I have the standard brakes.

I always joke with friends that the reason I like CCB's is that they keep the wheels a lot cleaner, the problem is its a really expensive way to keep em clean :-)

Personally if you are not planning on tracking the car and don't mind cleaning your wheels more often then I'd stick with the standard brakes. So far I've found my brakes to be massively powerful with no fade/squealing etc. just my 10cents
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      01-02-2015, 02:14 PM   #5
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Snow tires don't fit 437 wheel?
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      01-02-2015, 02:20 PM   #6
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I haven't found squeaking to be a problem at all. They do a bit when they are wet or when driving in a parking garage out of the cold.

They work fantastic in the cold in my experience - I've tested them down to -30 C. However, watch out coming out of a touchless car wash, especially in the winter. You practically have to stand on them to get them to work at first. Getting up to speed and a long stop brings them back

The 641's are a tight fit over the calipers. This isn't a problem, but the lack of choices and reluctance to change them yourself with a floor jack is definitely a drawback.

Apart from that, they look great, don't generate brake dust and feel really great to use even in daily driving.
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      01-02-2015, 02:23 PM   #7
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One other thought I have on this topic is that most cars brakes look really small and ugly especially on bigger wheels which is another reason for going CCB's Thats not the sase on the M3/M$, the brakes do a great job of filling the wheel, I love the blue calipers and the wheel hub itself has some really nice milling that I think looks cool!
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      01-02-2015, 02:26 PM   #8
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Check here for several great threads on the topic.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=532
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      01-02-2015, 02:29 PM   #9
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They are a bloody expensive option
They are bloody expensive to replace
18" wheels will not fit
They are fragile
Did I mention they are bloody expensive?
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      01-02-2015, 02:37 PM   #10
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Wheel fitment is my biggest problem with My CCBs. Most manufacturer dont make a 19 inch wheel that will fit. Im waiting to see who come out with an aluminum rotor conversion kit for the CCBs. On the street there is no comparison IMO. The brakes are amazing. For the track going to have to swap them to aluminum because they are to expensive to run.
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      01-02-2015, 02:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
They are a bloody expensive option
They are bloody expensive to replace
18" wheels will not fit
They are fragile
Did I mention they are bloody expensive?
All that brake dust you're inhaling must be clouding your judgment. You are right, bloody well right, that they do cost a pretty penny, but do last considerably longer - though perhaps not long enough to pay for themselves. 18's will not work for sure and even 19s hardly clear them. On what basis do you say they are fragile though? Any data/owner reports to back that up. I would fully expect BMW to replace them under warranty if they broke under normal use or insurance if they are damaged in an accident.
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      01-02-2015, 02:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
All that brake dust you're inhaling must be clouding your judgment. You are right, bloody well right, that they do cost a pretty penny, but do last considerably longer - though perhaps not long enough to pay for themselves. 18's will not work for sure and even 19s hardly clear them. On what basis do you say they are fragile though? Any data/owner reports to back that up. I would fully expect BMW to replace them under warranty if they broke under normal use or insurance if they are damaged in an accident.
BMW is replacing my rotors they are warped from the factory so they do cover defects, they are only fragile if your stupid enough to drop the wheel on them when removing wheels.
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      01-02-2015, 04:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
they are only fragile if your stupid enough to drop the wheel on them when removing wheels.
Or go through the gravel trap sideways at the track
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      01-02-2015, 04:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
All that brake dust you're inhaling must be clouding your judgment. You are right, bloody well right, that they do cost a pretty penny, but do last considerably longer - though perhaps not long enough to pay for themselves. 18's will not work for sure and even 19s hardly clear them. On what basis do you say they are fragile though? Any data/owner reports to back that up. I would fully expect BMW to replace them under warranty if they broke under normal use or insurance if they are damaged in an accident.
Fragile in the sense of easily damaged when subjected to an impact. A small ding with a wheel or a tool during a wheel change (you don't need to drop the wheel as @Tonymiabmw mentioned, just hitting the disc can be enough to damage it) or an impact from a rock while driving can mean a scrapped rotor. And did mention a rotor is bloody expensive to replace ?
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      01-02-2015, 04:13 PM   #15
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I went to a M3/4 meet a few weeks ago. 1 M4 showed up with CCBs. They are jewelry. So Sick.
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      01-02-2015, 04:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Fragile in the sense of easily damaged when subjected to an impact. A small ding with a wheel or a tool during a wheel change (you don't need to drop the wheel as @Tonymiabmw mentioned, just hitting the disc can be enough to damage it) or an impact from a rock while driving can mean a scrapped rotor. And did mention a rotor is bloody expensive to replace ?
This theory seems to be pretty flimsy given that the brakes aren't exactly made out of glass and there is an apparent absence of complaints from owners of M3/4/5/6 CCBs to support it.

Do you have anything more solid?
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      01-02-2015, 05:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
This theory seems to be pretty flimsy given that the brakes aren't exactly made out of glass and there is an apparent absence of complaints from owners of M3/4/5/6 CCBs to support it.

Do you have anything more solid?
I read something from BMW about specific cleaning processes for CCB and not allowing, as an example, road salt to remain on the rotors. That sort of stuff reminds me of the work needed to maintain matte paint. This is one of the reasons (excluding cost) why I personally chose to not go CCB... I wouldn't want to drive the car all winter and expose it to the salt, sand, etc of a typical Canadian winter. It may have been fine but reading this concerned me. If it was a summer only car, then it's a different story.

The maintenance items like these and the concern over the rotors being more fragile worried me personally. It would be good to confirm whether these concerns are truly meaningful, however, or if it is not a real issue. I am almost certain I read the salt/cleaning/maintenance piece directly from BMW when I was scoping out my M4 build but I can't put my fingers on it now.
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Last edited by gthal; 01-02-2015 at 05:15 PM..
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      01-02-2015, 05:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I read something from BMW about specific cleaning processes for CCB and not allowing, as an example, road salt to remain on the rotors. That sort of stuff reminds me of the work needed to maintain matte paint. This is one of the reasons (excluding cost) why I personally chose to not go CCB... I wouldn't want to drive the car all winter and expose it to the salt, sand, etc of a typical Canadian winter. It may have been fine but reading this concerned me. If it was a summer only car, then it's a different story.

The maintenance items like these and the concern over the rotors being more fragile worried me personally. It would be good to confirm whether these concerns are truly meaningful, however, or if it is not a real issue. I am almost certain I read the salt/cleaning/maintenance piece directly from BMW when I was scoping out my M4 build but I can't put my fingers on it now.
Quote:

Already in new condition - due to the different material compositions of friction layer and disc body - the friction surfaces are covered wih an distinctive stress reliving structure. A further advantage is that the disc is not so susceptible to corrosion, which means that no rust films form on the friction ring, a phenomenon that is well known in grey-cast constructions.

With conventional brake discs, corrosion is more likely to occur with low mileages, long idle periods and low usage, because the minimum load level required to initiate the disc brake's self-cleaning mechanism is not attained. Corroded brake discs generate a rubbing effect when the brakes are applied, which in the majority of cases can no longer be removed.

However, this does not occur with M carbon ceramic brakes, since they do not have a problem with corrosion.
Furthermore, they are less subject to wear. The brake pads wear more slowly, and under normal use, the carbon ceramic brake disc will last as long as the car itself; the silicon carbide friction coating is virtually non-wearing. However, on the racetrack, the brake discs may be subject to oxidative wear. When the discs are repeatedly heated to temperatures of 600 degrees and over, the fibres within the brake disc burn up.
Source

http://m-power.com/_open/b/closedroo...d=3145&lang=en
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      01-02-2015, 05:36 PM   #19
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I've not experienced any squeal with mine. I can tell you I did a few sessions at TWS and there was hardly any brake dust on the wheels, it was surprising how little dust these things make. I just love the way they look.
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      01-02-2015, 06:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
This was the part I recall getting me concern BUT it doesn't seem like a big deal at all on a re-read

Quote:
It is a good idea to clean both brake discs and callipers with a steam jet or high-pressure cleaner before putting the vehicle through an automatic car wash or washing bay facility, to avoid the formation of encrustations or deposits of, for example, salt crystals, when the car stands stationary after cleaning. The cleaning effect of such automatic washing systems in the vehicle's wheel areas is generally not sufficient to ensure this. As with all brake systems, it is important to ensure that any rim cleaner used is only applied to the wheel rims.

Rim cleaner should be applied to the wheel rims only.

If the brake disc and pads become wet, all brakes undergo a drop in their friction coefficient. M carbon ceramic brakes normally have a considerably higher coefficient of friction than conventional brakes, and they feel considerably fiercer in operation. However, under the impact of moisture and road salt, for example after using a car wash, or when condensation has formed overnight, the braking effect may be equivalent to that of a conventional brake system. This may be perceived as reduced braking performance, but it can be compensated for by applying more pressure with the brake pedal; this should be continued until the pads and discs have fully dried out. Since the difference in frictional coefficient between dry and wet brakes is higher than normal with M carbon ceramic brakes, it is felt all the more clearly by the driver.
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      01-02-2015, 07:15 PM   #21
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I would've gotten them if they were covered under the maintenance plan.
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      01-03-2015, 12:32 AM   #22
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Other than price, there are no disadvantages. They are wicked looking. They have performed excellently during daily driving. Finally, they are unique to the M3/M4. So why not purchase the option unique to the car. That's of course if you can stomach the $8K. I took the plunge and have no regrets whatsoever with the CCBs.
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