[Shortstack3000]

I was heading to work early in the AM and I slid through a totally iced turn.
Hit a huge squared curb head on with both side wheels.

Asked BMW about frame damage 24 hours after they'd had the car, and they quickly said "There's a front and rear frame... The front should be fine, but we need to check the rear." (It's a 2014 328x)

Does this answer jive? What should I look out for? This is going through insurance so shouldn't be any issues with the repairs/costs. They've already told me at least 3 control arms need to be replaced.

Thanks for the input guys!

[carzaddict]

sorry to hear about that man. hopefully everything gets sorted out and she'll be good as new!

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Black Ice is sneaky and may rob you of your balance! :

[Polo08816]

Were you on all season, summer, or winter/snow tires at the time of the incident?

I hit a patch of black ice coming out of a turn in a residential area yesterday. The back end broke lose but fortunately I was sporting Michelin X-Ice Xi3 studless winter tires on my RWD 335i. I attribute the effortless recovery to the tires. $900 for the tires and installation seemed well worth it in hindsight.

[RoundelM3]

Another thing to look for as a result of what happened is ruined wheel bearings on the side that took the hit. Front and rear subframe damage is possible, but the moving parts (control arms, etc.) are what generally take the brunt of the damage. Sorry to hear about your unfortunate situation...I had a similar thing happen to me in a 6-month-old Boxster back in the late 90s.

[Shazsta]

Ha you beat me to it!:

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Black Ice is sneaky and may rob you of your balance! :

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Were you on all season, summer, or winter/snow tires at the time of the incident?

I hit a patch of black ice coming out of a turn in a residential area yesterday. The back end broke lose but fortunately I was sporting Michelin X-Ice Xi3 studless winter tires on my RWD 335i. I attribute the effortless recovery to the tires. $900 for the tires and installation seemed well worth it in hindsight.

Nice, the other day I hit something with my all seasons. I think it may have been a bunch of powdered up salt or something loose like that. At any rate, I did a loooong counter-steered power slide and there was incoming traffic... It felt like one of those drafting Youtube video.

How do you like the X-Ice tires and does it feel firm and handling is good? Or is it squishy. How would you compare them the Pilote Alpin?

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Nice, the other day I hit something with my all seasons. I think it may have been a bunch of powdered up salt or something loose like that. At any rate, I did a loooong counter-steered power slide and there was incoming traffic... It felt like one of those drafting Youtube video.

How do you like the X-Ice tires and does it feel firm and handling is good? Or is it squishy. How would you compare them the Pilote Alpin?

Yeah, I know what you mean by those LONG counter-steering slides. It happened before in my Legacy GT (AWD) with Continental DWS tires. RWD + snows > AWD + all seasons.

The Michelin X-Ice Xi3 tires are "okay". They are definitely more squishy than the OEM summer RFTs. However, if you need a studless winter tire and a performance winter tire won't cut it, these tires are a good compromise in my opinion. They may be the only H-speed rated tires in the studless winter tire category. They are also LRR low rolling resistance so I've been getting the same or better fuel economy with these.

http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/colint...elin-x-ice-xi3

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=180

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Yeah, I know what you mean by those LONG counter-steering slides. It happened before in my Legacy GT (AWD) with Continental DWS tires. RWD + snows > AWD + all seasons.

The Michelin X-Ice Xi3 tires are "okay". They are definitely more squishy than the OEM summer RFTs. However, if you need a studless winter tire and a performance winter tire won't cut it, these tires are a good compromise in my opinion. They may be the only H-speed rated tires in the studless winter tire category. They are also LRR low rolling resistance so I've been getting the same or better fuel economy with these.

http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/colint...elin-x-ice-xi3

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=180

Personally I ditched the Blizzak LM-60 because it was too soft. Handling was terrible. Coming from summer tires, I was shocked and didn't feel like I was getting the BMW experience with these tires fitted. I requested a refund but all I could get was a new set of replacement from the same manufacturer. That's when I realized Bridgestone didn't have any good tires. I had to settle on some high-performance all-seasons and while the handling is decent, they do not have as much grip as I would need. Should I bought Michelin from the start, lesson learned. I'm leaning towards the PA4 because I need some stiff handling, but also safety for those few snowy days...

[S4NoMore]

Just to chime in with my experience, I didn't go for the Bridgestone winter tires either because while my winter is cold, the snow isn't very extreme.

Wanting to retain good dry and rainy performance I opted for the latest (3rd gen) Pirelli winter tire, and I'm very happy. Grip is confidence inspiring, no mushiness that I've noticed. Tirerack included it in their comparison test and the results strike a good balance with snow/ice grip.

Already this season I've driven to or from work on snowy roads a couple of times, of course nothing more than an inch or two - the plow trucks are good about that, and traffic displaces a lot of snow anyway - but I haven't missed a beat and it's not much worse than driving in the rain! By the way, I don't have xDrive.

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by S4NoMore

Just to chime in with my experience, I didn't go for the Bridgestone winter tires either because while my winter is cold, the snow isn't very extreme.

Wanting to retain good dry and rainy performance I opted for the latest (3rd gen) Pirelli winter tire, and I'm very happy. Grip is confidence inspiring, no mushiness that I've noticed. Tirerack included it in their comparison test and the results strike a good balance with snow/ice grip.

Already this season I've driven to or from work on snowy roads a couple of times, of course nothing more than an inch or two - the plow trucks are good about that, and traffic displaces a lot of snow anyway - but I haven't missed a beat and it's not much worse than driving in the rain! By the way, I don't have xDrive.

Sounds good, Philly suburbs too so I know what you're talking about with being cold but not too much snow (USUALLY). I've heard some good things about the Sottozero 3.

[ajrettke]

It is crazy how much better winter tires are...but it's also crazy how squishy they make the car handle. Just wish there was something better...because all seasons should really be called "no-seasons" as their simply not the WORST in every scenario.



Good video showing winter/summer/all-seasons in snow and ice:

Also, bridgestone makes pretty good summer tires acording to this article (I like how they blocked out the tires so the drivers didn't know):


http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Snow:

Ice:

[DDS2015]

Winter tires are a lot like condoms. They numb things, don't get the same braking or steering feel, etc. But they offer the best control for the conditions and will help to keep you safe if you use them properly.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Personally I ditched the Blizzak LM-60 because it was too soft. Handling was terrible. Coming from summer tires, I was shocked and didn't feel like I was getting the BMW experience with these tires fitted. I requested a refund but all I could get was a new set of replacement from the same manufacturer. That's when I realized Bridgestone didn't have any good tires. I had to settle on some high-performance all-seasons and while the handling is decent, they do not have as much grip as I would need. Should I bought Michelin from the start, lesson learned. I'm leaning towards the PA4 because I need some stiff handling, but also safety for those few snowy days...

LM32 is supposed to be a great HP winter tire

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Were you on all season, summer, or winter/snow tires at the time of the incident?

I hit a patch of black ice coming out of a turn in a residential area yesterday. The back end broke lose but fortunately I was sporting Michelin X-Ice Xi3 studless winter tires on my RWD 335i. I attribute the effortless recovery to the tires. $900 for the tires and installation seemed well worth it in hindsight.

+1 for the x-ice. I have RWD as well. Very easy to recover.

OP, BMW is telling you it sounds like you might have sub-frame damage. The sub-frame includes control arms, anti-roll bar etc. What they may be concerned about is whether the sub-frame mounts on the chassis are damaged. If the mounts are good you may need control arms and stabilizers swapped out and the car should be fine. Hopefully it won't be that bad. I heard a story from a guy who had the same accident you did in his G37 but he hit the curb so hard it rolled the car.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by ajrettke

...because all seasons should really be called "no-seasons" as their simply not the WORST in every scenario.

There is a type of tire called All-weather which is supposed to be better than all-season but i haven't heard much about these tires. Too new? Or failed promise?

Everyone i know who went from all season to seasonal tires never goes back. A dedicated tire is going to perform better than a compromise tire.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by menncars

There is a type of tire called All-weather which is supposed to be better than all-season but i haven't heard much about these tires. Too new? Or failed promise?

Everyone i know who went from all season to seasonal tires never goes back. A dedicated tire is going to perform better than a compromise tire.

All-weather is most likely a failed promise. I don't see how it's any different from all-season...

[capt_slow]

Originally Posted by DDS2015

Winter tires are a lot like condoms.

This is a new one.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Sorry to hear that

[teylix]

nasty black ice in michigan this morning. comes out of nowhere lots of times. :/

[Thumper333]

Originally Posted by menncars

+1 for the x-ice. I have RWD as well. Very easy to recover.

OP, BMW is telling you it sounds like you might have sub-frame damage. The sub-frame includes control arms, anti-roll bar etc. What they may be concerned about is whether the sub-frame mounts on the chassis are damaged.

Terminology is a tricky thing. The sub-frames are just that, sub-frames, not the frame. They are bolt on replaceable parts just used to locate the parts you mentioned. Since BMW mentioned front and rear, and the OP asked them about "the frame", my guess is they were speaking of the unibody, not the subframe assy's.

The car does indeed have a front and rear frame, these attach to the passenger cage and together make up the Unibody frame. A side impact to structure bad enough can cause inertia to "sway" the frame. Unless you hit VERY hard it's probably fine, worth checking out for sure though, and likely easily correctable if out.

Knuckles, wheel bearings, axles, these are the things I would worry about more.

Black ice sucks man.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Personally I ditched the Blizzak LM-60 because it was too soft. Handling was terrible. Coming from summer tires, I was shocked and didn't feel like I was getting the BMW experience with these tires fitted. I requested a refund but all I could get was a new set of replacement from the same manufacturer. That's when I realized Bridgestone didn't have any good tires. I had to settle on some high-performance all-seasons and while the handling is decent, they do not have as much grip as I would need. Should I bought Michelin from the start, lesson learned. I'm leaning towards the PA4 because I need some stiff handling, but also safety for those few snowy days...

Your requirements of good winter grip and good handling are mutually exclusive. In order to perform well on snow and ice the tires need to have a soft compound and very deep, flexible tread blocks with lots of sipes. If you push winter tires hard they'll feel very greasy and like complete crap compared to summer tires.

On the contrary, anything that handles precisely, whether labeled "all season" or otherwise will suck in the snow and ice.

I'm into the second season on my Sotozeros and I have no complaints. Not as great as a studless snow/ice tire, but a good compromise. And they handle well enough to not totally neuter the feel of the car.