[Dr Fatpuss]

just wanted to share my first snow expirence in texas with a rwd no lsd bmw with summer tires.... long story short.... it sucked and i just stayed home. i understand tires are 90% of the game when it comes to snow, but with just a 10 degree incline on 1/2 inch of snow the m235i would not go. i had to drive back home in reverse and chocked it up a snow day from work. if i had the lsd the car would have done fine at really low speeds even on summer tires. The lsd is first on my list i have noticed not having it over bumps in the dry the car hops and even in the rain i notice the way the power is going down when the car gets squirly on heavy load in a turn. If you are ordering this car dish out the cash for the port installed lsd trust me on this it makes a big difference.

[2msport]

Originally Posted by Dr Fatpuss

just wanted to share my first snow expirence in texas with a rwd no lsd bmw with summer tires.... long story short.... it sucked and i just stayed home. i understand tires are 90% of the game when it comes to snow, but with just a 10 degree incline on 1/2 inch of snow the m235i would not go. i had to drive back home in reverse and chocked it up a snow day from work. if i had the lsd the car would have done fine at really low speeds even on summer tires. The lsd is first on my list i have noticed not having it over bumps in the dry the car hops and even in the rain i notice the way the power is going down when the car gets squirly on heavy load in a turn. If you are ordering this car dish out the cash for the port installed lsd trust me on this it makes a big difference.

tires are everything when it comes to snow

[Cyberdemon]

If you are driving in snow on a regular basis, you need all season or tires regardless of if you have an LSD. The ability to accelerate is only 1 part of the problem, even if you got going you would not have been able to stop.

If you live in Texas and it snows, then yeah just chalk that up to bad luck and move on with it. The last time I was in Austin it was in the middle of an ice storm, I had to drive 20 miles out of town on ice and I made the mistake of renting a Camaro SS (on summers). I actually managed to not crash it and that was the day there were 278 accidents in Austin and all the highways were shut down. (No BS)

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news...celled-flights

[Dr Fatpuss]

Originally Posted by 2msport

tires are everything when it comes to snow

Agree... since texas gets snow now almost every year i think its time to get a set of snow tires and rims just to have for those occasions. And a LSD

[2msport]

Originally Posted by Dr Fatpuss

Agree... since texas gets snow now almost every year i think its time to get a set of snow tires and rims just to have for those occasions. And a LSD

lol forsure. I wish I could afford the LSD right now. My 04 IS300 had LSD. Definitely nice to have. And it's pretty crazy about all the snow and ice Texas has been getting. I work there so I've been affected by it. Luckily missed that intense ice storm last year.

[Cyberdemon]

It's Texas, can't you get a used pickup for less than the cost of snow tires? ;-)

[ryank382]

did the E-Diff not help at all?

[Dr Fatpuss]

I got out of my neighborhood fine and then came to a stop light and had to take a right turn to go up an slightly inclined road. car was just stuck. i turned off traction control and tried over a few times... nothing but getting spin. then i reversed with my hazards on and tried to get some momentum and still nothing just spin. that is when i was like f this and reversed all the way back home. i am very positive if i had at least all season the car would have made it. Kinda glad i didnt get too far from home before i turned back i prob would have hit a curb or something. worked out for the best by not working at all. the open diff should work if you have some good snow tires or at least all season but i cannot confirm.

[Dr Fatpuss]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

It's Texas, can't you get a used pickup for less than the cost of snow tires? ;-)

true... i am looking for a used subaru or something tough and small i can beat the piss out of on days like that. sucks having just one nice car sometimes.

[mfourn20]

I drove through snowmagedon this winter with snow tires and the e-dif. Zero problems never got stuck even while driving through 6 inches unplowed uphill (my driveway is steep). I noticed GREATLY reduced traction with the summer tires at temps below 40...I doubt a dif would do anything for you with summer tires on snow/ice

[MrBallooKnot]

I'm with others on the tires making the biggest difference. 2nd to that, I'd say make sure you're in Comfort or "limp mode". After that, an MT will give you more control. I kind of feel like one would be better with an AWD over LSD if snow is the concern.

I have an automatic, RWD, and all seasons and made it through a Colorado winter ok. Not ideal, but I'm alive. In fairness, I steal my wife's X3 when it get's gnarly. :-)

[RJS5689]

LSD + snow tires = false sense of security!

Getting started is only one part of the equation, you still need to be able to corner and stop, which is why the proper tires are essential.

[wjones14]

Every Mustang I've ever owned had an LSD, and I can tell you that is not the answer when it comes to snow. Sure, it's better than an open diff, but there's no substitute for snow tires. Even all-seasons are not great in snow. Summer tires, forget it. They're not even good when the weather is below freezing, let alone snow.

[mfourn20]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Every Mustang I've ever owned had an LSD, and I can tell you that is not the answer when it comes to snow. Sure, it's better than an open diff, but there's no substitute for snow tires. Even all-seasons are not great in snow. Summer tires, forget it. They're not even good when the weather is below freezing, let alone snow.

I fully agree. In November I was commuting/clinging to the hope of warm weather on my summer tires with temperatures at around 30 degrees. Traction control light would light up very easily on dry pavement, there's just no traction with summer tires going below 35ish.

[krhodes1]

A real LSD is a double-edge blade in the snow. Sure, it will help you get going, but if you are going and you give it a little too much go, both wheels will spin and the car will too. BTDT with e28s and e30s back in the day. For snow, the e-diff is really much better. And I have to think the slightly less predictable throttle response of a turbo will make this that much worse. I always preferred my non-turbo Volvos in snow vs. my turbo Volvos for just this reason.

For driving in snow, you need the right tires. Summer tires have about zero grip, as you found. Two x almost zero is still almost zero. You will just have less directional control. Snow tires and a second set of wheels are 1/2 the price of an LSD.

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Every Mustang I've ever owned had an LSD, and I can tell you that is not the answer when it comes to snow. Sure, it's better than an open diff, but there's no substitute for snow tires. Even all-seasons are not great in snow. Summer tires, forget it. They're not even good when the weather is below freezing, let alone snow.

Agreed. If the car isn't going anywhere with the eLSD, it won't go anywhere with a mechanical LSD either. The LSD saves the brakes and offers more consistent and predictable response. But brake actuated differential lock is just as good for getting the car out of a snowy parking space in my experience.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Its not just snow - its the cold. Summer tires can become hockey pucks and crack in colder weather..Irregardless of whether there is snow on the ground or not..

[///MCFC]

i have to laugh when ppl suggest that a RWD w/snow tires is just as good as AWD w/allseasons. *cue someone linking to jalopnik articles and/or youtube videos* i ran my evo for 8 yrs on allseasons and never once came close to getting stuck. it was an absolute beast in the snow...WITHOUT snow tires.

fast fwd to this winter. i managed to get my 235i stuck twice...with the M performance LSD....and with snow tires!! the problem is that if one rear wheel is on ice and slipping, there's a decent chance the other one is too, which means you're effed plain and simple. a good AWD is by far the best solution in snow.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

i have to laugh when ppl suggest that a RWD w/snow tires is just as good as AWD w/allseasons. *cue someone linking to jalopnik articles and/or youtube videos* i ran my evo for 8 yrs on allseasons and never once came close to getting stuck. it was an absolute beast in the snow...WITHOUT snow tires.

fast fwd to this winter. i managed to get my 235i stuck twice...with the M performance LSD....and with snow tires!! the problem is that if one rear wheel is on ice and slipping, there's a decent chance the other one is too, which means you're effed plain and simple. a good AWD is by far the best solution in snow.

Again you're making a specific point about 1 aspect of driving - acceleration.

Yes you are correct. AWD is beneficial in the snow. No one will argue that.

The difference is (and the OP is talking about summer tires which is an exponential level of danger) there is more to driving than accelerating. You have to be able to turn and stop too. So AWD is only plays a part in driving. If you are on all seasons that don't have enough grip and come to a panic stop, you will be sliding into the car in front of you. And yes, (post tire rack link here) it's well documented that snow tires have substantially better braking performance where AWD doesn't matter. I've survived multiple winters with all seasons and FWD, so do most people.

I live in NY and have had to commute 30 miles through snowmageddon 2 years in a row now with a RWD car and snow tires. There were multiple times that cars of all shapes and sizes were trapped on exit ramps due to the incline and ice and I marched right up. The worst scenario was a point where I had to stop, and slid backwards a few feet before getting traction and moving on. AWD would have certainly helped me then, but I don't need to lug around an extra 200 lbs of weight for the 1 time in 3 years I needed AWD. If I lived in a very mountainous and snowy area then yes, AWD makes sense.

Either way there's been 9 billion of these threads already.

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Again you're making a specific point about 1 aspect of driving - acceleration.

Yes you are correct. AWD is beneficial in the snow. No one will argue that.

The difference is (and the OP is talking about summer tires which is an exponential level of danger) there is more to driving than accelerating. You have to be able to turn and stop too. So AWD is only plays a part in driving. If you are on all seasons that don't have enough grip and come to a panic stop, you will be sliding into the car in front of you. And yes, (post tire rack link here) it's well documented that snow tires have substantially better braking performance where AWD doesn't matter. I've survived multiple winters with all seasons and FWD, so do most people.

I live in NY and have had to commute 30 miles through snowmageddon 2 years in a row now with a RWD car and snow tires. There were multiple times that cars of all shapes and sizes were trapped on exit ramps due to the incline and ice and I marched right up. The worst scenario was a point where I had to stop, and slid backwards a few feet before getting traction and moving on. AWD would have certainly helped me then, but I don't need to lug around an extra 200 lbs of weight for the 1 time in 3 years I needed AWD. If I lived in a very mountainous and snowy area then yes, AWD makes sense.

Either way there's been 9 billion of these threads already.

i will continue to beat this dead horse b/c the turn/stop argument is specious. it's a fuck load easier to learn to brake a bit earlier and turn a bit more gradually than it is to find someone to help push your ass when you get stuck.

p.s. you do realize that a good AWD can help with turning, too, right?

[Killramos]

It's sad but it seems it needs to be said. Do not drive any car with MPSS's in snow or Icey conditions. Period. These summer tires are known to be PARTICULARLY bad.

Remember that little waiver you signed picking up the car? That was a pretty good indicator of how poor these tires perform in inclement weather.

The day before I picked up my M235i my salesman sold a 335i xDrive with mpss installed. It took the owner a whole 2 hours to put it in a ditch (in what weren't even that bad of conditions, light snow dusting). Awd is not the answer when using suicidal tires.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

i have to laugh when ppl suggest that a RWD w/snow tires is just as good as AWD w/allseasons. *cue someone linking to jalopnik articles and/or youtube videos* i ran my evo for 8 yrs on allseasons and never once came close to getting stuck. it was an absolute beast in the snow...WITHOUT snow tires.

fast fwd to this winter. i managed to get my 235i stuck twice...with the M performance LSD....and with snow tires!! the problem is that if one rear wheel is on ice and slipping, there's a decent chance the other one is too, which means you're effed plain and simple. a good AWD is by far the best solution in snow.

Its about STOPPING. RWD with winters is a safer car than awd on a/s.AWD will not help you stop. Its a fact proven many times. Getting moving is only part of the problem in snow. Summer is here...I thought this annual topic had exhausted itself..............