[ss134]

I am due to relocate to the UK after many years working in Germany. During my time here I've owned an E90 335i, 2 E90 M3's and my current F80 M3.

Bottom line is I now need an estate. It has been a tough decision but the facts are that here in Germany on my commute I can really enjoy the M3 on the back roads and autobahn , in the UK my commute will be longer and most of my time will be spent doing 90 on the motorway or stuck in traffic.

The F80 is a great car but I haven't enjoyed it as much as my 2 E90 M3's which makes the trade much easier. While being much faster, the drama of the high revving V8 has gone which made even a mundane drive a joy. The F80 really comes into it's own at triple digit speeds but with the move back to the UK these opportunities will not be there unless I want to risk my freedom/licence! I really don't like the new electric steering in comparison to the old cars hydraulic set up and coupled with below 20 mpg and higher running costs the case for the F80 for me in the UK makes no sense.

My choice is between an F31 335i and 330d. Have pretty much decided on the 330d although I am a bit nervous as this will be my first diesel- could still be tempted by 335i although residuals and running costs a concern and considering the reasons I'm trading would not seem to make much sense although I'm sure I would prefer the petrol over the diesel. I will cover around 12- 15k a year max and am looking to keep this car for 5 years or so. What are people getting on average mpg from the 335?

I am ordering on Monday so any advice on spec from current owners would be we much appreciated!

As it stands I'm looking at:

Proff Sat Nav
M Sport plus Package
Visability Package
Comfort Package
Advance Parking Package
HUD
Surround View
Heated seats
Adaptive dampers
Variable Sport steering ( anyone got experience with this?)

Any comments much appreciated

[Chompers]

Great car which ever route you go. Pano sunroof on a Touring is nice to have + a tow bar if you have things like bikes to move round. May not use it all the time, but very handy to have just in case. I'd also add the 5y/50k service pack but get this thrown in just before you shake on the deal

[Dave_3]

You want higher revving - look at either the 335i or 335d. The 330d isn't so keen to rev as highly (having single one-size-does-all variable turbo).

Coming from an M3, you should probably try a 335i first. Much closer in driving characteristics than the 330d.

Variable sport steering I really like. It gives you the benefits of a quick rack, but still perfectly calm on motorway or slight stering inputs off straight ahead. It is just a mechanical setup, as you turn further off centre it becomes higher geared.

Edit: the rumoured incoming LCI 340i might be worth considering, even if only to use as haggling the price down on the existing 335i.

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1081449

D.

[teaston]

I love the 30d engine, but how it would be coming from an M3 i couldn't say for sure. It has more than enough power low down to light up the rear tyres even in dry warm conditions, however it does lack top end power for overtaking compared to it's off the line acceleration. The Steinbauer has improved this greatly though.

Regarding VSS, NISFAN has it on the 330d and seems to like it. Although if you don't like electric steering then maybe even more steering intervention won't be your cup of tea.

[RalphyBMW]

Coming from an M3, you are unlikely to be happy with the standard handing of any xDrive variant, so might need to factor in some additional cost

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

You want higher revving - look at either the 335i or 335d. The 330d isn't so keen to rev as highly (having single one-size-does-all variable turbo).

Coming from an M3, you should probably try a 335i first. Much closer in driving characteristics than the 330d.

Variable sport steering I really like. It gives you the benefits of a quick rack, but still perfectly calm on motorway or slight stering inputs off straight ahead. It is just a mechanical setup, as you turn further off centre it becomes higher geared.

Edit: the rumoured incoming LCI 340i might be worth considering, even if only to use as haggling the price down on the existing 335i.

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1081449

D.

My train of thought at the moment is that even if I got the 335i the engine would still lack in comparison to the M3 so I may as well go with the 330d and reap the benefits of higher residuals and mpg. Either way I know it'll be no M3 so the thought making the sensible choice appeals as I could appreciate it for it's benefits rather than comparing it to the M3 as I think I would if I got the 335i?

Regarding the VSS- does this feature make the steering lighter or heavier as generally I prefer a stiffer/heavier steering feel? Does it tighten up the steering and is there a noticeable difference between the standard and the VSS?

[mcdokika]

Originally Posted by ss134

My train of thought at the moment is that even if I got the 335i the engine would still lack in comparison to the M3 so I may as well go with the 330d and reap the benefits of higher residuals and mpg. Either way I know it'll be no M3 so the thought making the sensible choice appeals as I could appreciate it for it's benefits rather than comparing it to the M3 as I think I would if I got the 335i?

Regarding the VSS- does this feature make the steering lighter or heavier as generally I prefer a stiffer/heavier steering feel? Does it tighten up the steering and is there a noticeable difference between the standard and the VSS?

Did you think about 335d ? With remap or a good box you get 370-380 hp. Consumption is much lower.

Or if you dont want to loose /put at risk your license or freedom I would recommend a good 316i or 318i.

[Mattyk]

Given you don't mention the 335d I assume you don't want awd/auto, however, if you did:-

I don't have the hud, advanced parking or cameras.

You do get parking sensors front and back, so I can't see the benefit of the e/o cost unless parking is truly a challenge, unless I am missing something.

Hud - again nice to have, but is it really a benefit? Seems like a gimmick, those with it could advise whether it's actually a benefit.

I do wish I had pro nav, couldn't see the benefit at the time, but now I would really appreciate the split screen for nav / audio.

As mentioned, if you considered the 335d you would need to sort the ride out, the question is what you would be happy with.

Adaptive and acs springs is an option many have sworn by, but given your coming from m3's then you would probably want to swap everything which would mean the adaptive is a waste of money that could go to coil overs and springs.

Not sure on the costs but hud, parking and adaptive could nearly equal coilovers?

Personally, I will be swapping springs in April. I couldn't justify another 2k for the benefit coilovers will bring, buts that's me.

I hammer it and still get 35mpg. In sport/sport + it'd quite rapid, in comfort still quick just less revvy.

I do mainly motorway miles and it eats them, 160 mile trips are no problem.

A bit rambling sorry, but am rushing out.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by mcdokika

Did you think about 335d ? With remap or a good box you get 370-380 hp. Consumption is much lower.

Or if you dont want to loose /put on risk your license or freedom I would recommend a good 316i or 318i.

No I have not considered the 335d because of x drive - I like and prefer rwd. Ultimate speed and performance is not my goal for this car, if it was I would not consider a 335d anyway, I would just keep the M3 or as I need an estate the new C63. I do want a car with reasonable pace though.

[Nick the Greek]

Well, you could look at it this way.....

You're currently sharing a bed with Kelly Brook.


And now you're proposing kicking her out of bed for Ann Widecombe.....


I would suggest a consultation with my psychiatrist, before you go any further....

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Given you don't mention the 335d I assume you don't want awd/auto, however, if you did:-

I don't have the hud, advanced parking or cameras.

You do get parking sensors front and back, so I can't see the benefit of the e/o cost unless parking is truly a challenge, unless I am missing something.

Hud - again nice to have, but is it really a benefit? Seems like a gimmick, those with it could advise whether it's actually a benefit.

I do wish I had pro nav, couldn't see the benefit at the time, but now I would really appreciate the split screen for nav / audio.

As mentioned, if you considered the 335d you would need to sort the ride out, the question is what you would be happy with.

Adaptive and acs springs is an option many have sworn by, but given your coming from m3's then you would probably want to swap everything which would mean the adaptive is a waste of money that could go to coil overs and springs.

Not sure on the costs but hud, parking and adaptive could nearly equal coilovers?

Personally, I will be swapping springs in April. I couldn't justify another 2k for the benefit coilovers will bring, buts that's me.

I hammer it and still get 35mpg. In sport/sport + it'd quite rapid, in comfort still quick just less revvy.

I do mainly motorway miles and it eats them, 160 mile trips are no problem.

A bit rambling sorry, but am rushing out.

I have HUD on the M3- now that I've had it I wouldn't order another car like this without it- I really like it. Not interested in modding the car for performance, like I've said- if I wanted a true performance orientated machine I would not be considering these cars.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Well, you could look at it this way.....

You're currently sharing a bed with Kelly Brook.


And now you're proposing kicking her out of bed for Ann Widecombe.....


I would suggest a consultation with my psychiatrist, before you go any further....

I've had 3 M3s now- I've scratched that itch. At the moment I do not want another performance car- in the future I'm sure I will when something comes out that takes my fancy.

[Tengocity]

I'd have a really good drive of a diesel before you commit to one. I doubt residuals will be that different, and your mileage is not that high. The torque is great, but you've already said you miss the revs of the old M3, which would only be even more so in the 330d.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by ss134

My train of thought at the moment is that even if I got the 335i the engine would still lack in comparison to the M3 so I may as well go with the 330d and reap the benefits of higher residuals and mpg. Either way I know it'll be no M3 so the thought making the sensible choice appeals as I could appreciate it for it's benefits rather than comparing it to the M3 as I think I would if I got the 335i?

Regarding the VSS- does this feature make the steering lighter or heavier as generally I prefer a stiffer/heavier steering feel? Does it tighten up the steering and is there a noticeable difference between the standard and the VSS?

I have a 430d, and the engine is a cracker, probably the sweet spot for balancing power and economy. But I waft along on torque all the time, which it suits perfectly especially with the new ZF automatic. It is not a high revving engine. It depends on your style, but if you like to hang onto revs it is not the engine for you - a 335d is better with the twin turbos, having a more meaty high end (I had a 335d coupe for 7 years) but then it comes with Xdrive. To some that is an advantage, but take some time to browse the forums to see how the owners feel about the handling. I personally opted to avoid it.

The 335i should hold up well compared to your E92 M3, bit like the 330d the turbo will give a more meaty low end torque. And revving it, it sounds excellent and certainly picks up its skirts at high revs. The 8 speed auto really comes alive.

To throw the cat amongst the pigeons, you can get a BMW Power Performance Kit for the 30d engine, if you later crave for a bit more oomph.

http://www.matlawrence.com/images/bmw/powerkit.pdf

It is entirely your choice, but I would at the very least have an extended test drive of a 330d before buying.

The VSS at dead centre and about 5 degrees each way will be exactly the same as standard steering. But start to drive with greater curves, switchbacks etc. it will steer quicker for the same input compared to standard. If you don't like the lighter feel of the standard setup, it'll be the same for the VSS. But you can always switch your sport mode button to do chassis only (adaptive suspension will firm up) and the steering weights up.

I personally like the VSS. Nipping up and down the Alps on the hairpins (or right angles at junctions in town) takes much less arm twirling, quicker witted, more fun. If you have ever fitted a quick rack - you'll know how much fun that can be. Bit like a quick shift gear change. Just more direct, more satisfying.

D

[....,,,,..,,..]

Personally, I would go for the 335i, rather than the 330d.

Saying that the 330d is a damn good car and eats the roads easily.

Even in un modded xdrive flavour it manages those fast winding Welsh Marches roads.

There is obviously the idle engine noise difference between the 335i and the 330d, another thing to be considered.

Also, with the way the Green People are going on about diesel, I can see some price / tax changes ahead.

For the F31 I would add the Pano roof and if anyone else driving the car, consider electric seats, folding mirrors and fold rear headrests (not sure if in comfort pack).

[NISFAN]

Hi ss134

Reading your post, I would suggest checking out the 335i. For your annual mileage and coming from an M3, running costs shouldn't be a major issue. With the 335i you get decent performance in a rear wheel drive chassis. I would definitely go with VSS steering, and non adaptive suspension which you junk for a set of Bilstein PSS10 (along with the run flats tyres).
If the standard 335i performance gets a little tame (dynod at around 320hp in stock form), you can always put the BMW PPK on it, or if you want more a JB4 tune, which will make it a mini M3.

Lastly I wouldn't buy a new car with the minor differences in residual value being a factor. Just get the most suitable car, a forced early change because you bought the wrong one is far more costly.

Make sure you get really good discount.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Hi ss134

Reading your post, I would suggest checking out the 335i. For your annual mileage and coming from an M3, running costs shouldn't be a major issue. With the 335i you get decent performance in a rear wheel drive chassis. I would definitely go with VSS steering, and non adaptive suspension which you junk for a set of Bilstein PSS10 (along with the run flats tyres).
If the standard 335i performance gets a little tame (dynod at around 320hp in stock form), you can always put the BMW PPK on it, or if you want more a JB4 tune, which will make it a mini M3.

Lastly I wouldn't buy a new car with the minor differences in residual value being a factor. Just get the most suitable car, a forced early change because you bought the wrong one is far more costly.

Make sure you get really good discount.

I think you're right about the residuals - there won't be much in it after 5 years however I need the car before July and with the new 340i coming out later in the summer this may further impact the 335i further down the road.

Food for thought definately - need to make a decision for tomorrow so will have a look at 335i real world mpg ( my old 335 was similar consumption to F80 M3) running costs not a primary factor but still a factor as I'm planning on keeping this car long term. Don't want to downgrade from the M3 and be experiencing similar range/consumption- that would be pretty pointless.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Personally, I would go for the 335i, rather than the 330d.

Saying that the 330d is a damn good car and eats the roads easily.

Even in un modded xdrive flavour it manages those fast winding Welsh Marches roads.

There is obviously the idle engine noise difference between the 335i and the 330d, another thing to be considered.

Also, with the way the Green People are going on about diesel, I can see some price / tax changes ahead.

For the F31 I would add the Pano roof and if anyone else driving the car, consider electric seats, folding mirrors and fold rear headrests (not sure if in comfort pack).

Interesting that you would choose the 330d over the 335i but you bought the 330d? Did you not like it/have you sold it?

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Hud - again nice to have, but is it really a benefit? Seems like a gimmick, those with it could advise whether it's actually a benefit.
.

Not a nice to have for me, it's a must have. I'd hate to go back to not having one. Huge benefit imho.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by ss134

Interesting that you would choose the 330d over the 335i but you bought the 330d? Did you not like it/have you sold it?

I really like the 330d, it's excellent.

However, I am now abroad more, more travel to places by train, so my mileage has dropped.

Also tend to MTB to work more as well.

With hindsight, I would have went for a 335i F31, however my 330d was better than I would have gotten for a 335i.

Yes still got my gorgeous 330d F31 in EBII

Only 6k miles since June

[simon.]

335i F31. Done. As much as I like my 335D I do miss the noise & free revving of my old M135i.

Mind the 335D is only 3K miles in so tight as a nuns cunt still.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by simon.

335i F31. Done. As much as I like my 335D I do miss the noise & free revving of my old M135i.

Mind the 335D is only 3K miles in so tight as a nuns cunt still.

Don't worry it will loosen up quite nicely!

The 335d does like to rev, better than any other diesel I reckon.

If I did less miles I'd still go 335i however. There is more to driving enjoyment than on paper figures, and no stats tell you about how much better a petrol is for throttle response and the noise when you extend it out.

So, despite saying you're concerned that a 335 will seem tame compared to your M3 so why not have a complete change, do consider what it is that you like in your cars character.. as someone who has had 3 M cars and stated that they preferred the high-revving nature of the old V8, are you really going to love that diesel?!

Also, remember that British roads are not only more congested but also in a shite state of repair, so you'll get hacked off with the ride of your car here, especially if it's on runflats, and the cheap dampers on the standard cars struggle a little for the more enthusiast drivers.

So other things to consider for the person who wants a RWD estate, but may still want a great handling car are:

335i and go speak to Birds about fitting their suspension package and Quaiffe diff (could still be done on a 330d)
Or perhaps the Alpina D3? Can be had as a RWD with estate body...

Or just get a 330d of course!...