[TheLegacy]

I know a really well known shop by me. they're going to do my alarm system (about time someone can). Anyway they said they did the speakers for a 335 already and know how to do it with ease.

Its just replacement speakers... No amps etc

replace the subs under the seats to

question is it worth it? Its not like there is power power to them... just quality maybe?

[Couch]

No experience, but here's my take. If you do change speakers they will sound better obviously. However, I would also replace the stock amp. It would increase the overall sound quality of the new speakers.

[TheLegacy]

oh i know sound systems, all my cars had one. Looove sound but didnt want to go into amps etc because sadly (or maybe) wont be keeping the car in 2 yrs (depends on uncle sam)

[VP Electricity]

I am very skeptical... the output of the Logic 7 is heavily equalized and might sound good with the right replacement speaker, but might not.

That said, I replaced the 2 ohm Bose speakers in my allroad with Hertz HSK165 components (was doing the upgrade in stages) and they sounded great.

It is VERY MUCH a throwing spaghetti at the wall. It is impossible to predict.

If they have done the exact car before (Logic 7 processing varies) and they did the same speakers then they could have a good solution. But there better be a 100% money back guarantee including labor if you don't like it.

What speaks are they recommending?

[TheLegacy]

gotta call them today

it was a french company, will find out soon

[VP Electricity]

I forgot to answer part of your question.

The electromechanical behavior of a speaker - how it 'wants" to react to a impulse - is similar to that of a car suspension hitting a bump. The better the suspension, the more in control the system is.

That costs more in a speaker, and most OE speakers suck at this.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

gotta call them today

it was a french company, will find out soon

Focal... we'll see.

[TheLegacy]

^yea Focal hehe

they are going to send me pics etc. Its a great shop in Boston but debating if its worth spending the money... logic 7 is nice as is and ive got other stuff to waste $ on for the 335 lol

[VP Electricity]

In Boston, Sound In Motion does a lot of BMWs, but there are a few more.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Couch

No experience, but here's my take. If you do change speakers they will sound better obviously. However, I would also replace the stock amp. It would increase the overall sound quality of the new speakers.

It isn't as obvious at it seems...

You have at least to consider the impedance and sensitivity of the replacement speakers in the decision.

For example, most of the aftermarket speakers that you can find are 4 ohms in impedance. That's just not true most of the time in some OEM audio systems speakers, especially BMW's. Some BMW OEM speakers are 3 ohms, others are 2 ohms. Then you have the wiring configurations/processing that support those impedances, as some OEM speakers are wired in parallel and/or actively filtered by OEM amps.

The result of those configurations is that if you replace a 3 ohm speaker with a 4 ohm you will be affecting the output of that speaker, as there is more impedance (resistance) for the signal to flow; maybe you will notice the result, maybe you don't... that's the reason it is not obvious at all nor it will be necessarily a positive replacement. Things can get more complicated after replacement if the wiring configuration of these OEM speakers are in parallel, or if the OEM amp active crossosvers frequency response was design-matched to a specific impedance of the OEM speakers. Then if the sensitivity of the aftermarket speakers is much higher than the OEM's then it could be possible that the output will become too bright, which could be mistaken with distortion. After all, the higher the sensitivity the lower the signal output is required to keep a certain level of sound pressure.

So there are at least a couple of factors to consider before replacing the OEM speakers, especially the ones in the Logic7 system with its heavy processing, parallel wiring and speaker sensitivity matched to the amp output/active crossovers.

[TheLegacy]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

In Boston, Sound In Motion does a lot of BMWs, but there are a few more.

^That would be the shop who I'm dealing with ;+)

they did a 335 sound system no problem but debating on its worth

[VP Electricity]

Technic, your statements are technically accurate, but they don't help with planning.

Many people have said that you can't upgrade speakers only in an Audi Bose system because the Bose speakers are 2 ohm. But some speakers sound OK in that application - and some don't. It's not obvvious until after you try it.

You can research impedance curves and frequency response all you want - it either sounds good or it doesn't, and I challenge anyone to predict reliably without a trial.

Best way to find out is to bolt them in and decide.

I'm not a Focal fan myself, and I doubt that any driver in the underseat E90 enclosure is gonna play any low bass at all... but it would be a good test. I'm all for science, if we're experimenting. I suspect that the Hertz HSK100 set would sound good since they are very efficient.

The greater concern when impedance is concerned is the Logic 7's ability to "push" through a passive crossover for the tweeter and the mid that are more complex than the series capacitor on the tweeter in the OEM system.

More complex crossover filters present a more rapidly rising impedance to the tweeter circuit below a certain frequency, and a more rapidly rising curve above a certain frequency for the mid circuit - with associated lost amp power - called insertion loss.

Some OEM amps really do NOT like pushing through higher-order passives. Some Acura amps come to mind.

[Couch]

Originally Posted by Technic

It isn't as obvious at it seems...

You have at least to consider the impedance and sensitivity of the replacement speakers in the decision.

For example, most of the aftermarket speakers that you can find are 4 ohms in impedance. That's just not true most of the time in some OEM audio systems speakers, especially BMW's. Some BMW OEM speakers are 3 ohms, others are 2 ohms. Then you have the wiring configurations/processing that support those impedances, as some OEM speakers are wired in parallel and/or actively filtered by OEM amps.

The result of those configurations is that if you replace a 3 ohm speaker with a 4 ohm you will be affecting the output of that speaker, as there is more impedance (resistance) for the signal to flow; maybe you will notice the result, maybe you don't... that's the reason it is not obvious at all nor it will be necessarily a positive replacement. Things can get more complicated after replacement if the wiring configuration of these OEM speakers are in parallel, or if the OEM amp active crossosvers frequency response was design-matched to a specific impedance of the OEM speakers. Then if the sensitivity of the aftermarket speakers is much higher than the OEM's then it could be possible that the output will become too bright, which could be mistaken with distortion. After all, the higher the sensitivity the lower the signal output is required to keep a certain level of sound pressure.

So there are at least a couple of factors to consider before replacing the OEM speakers, especially the ones in the Logic7 system with its heavy processing, parallel wiring and speaker sensitivity matched to the amp output/active crossovers.

I concur. I shouldn't have used "obviously" as nothing is ever that simple.

[TheLegacy]

my understanding has always been that the logic 7 is complicated and it seems that the best bet is not to mess with it lol

[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Technic, your statements are technically accurate, but they don't help with planning.

Many people have said that you can't upgrade speakers only in an Audi Bose system because the Bose speakers are 2 ohm. But some speakers sound OK in that application - and some don't. It's not obvvious until after you try it.

You can research impedance curves and frequency response all you want - it either sounds good or it doesn't, and I challenge anyone to predict reliably without a trial.

Best way to find out is to bolt them in and decide.

I'm not a Focal fan myself, and I doubt that any driver in the underseat E90 enclosure is gonna play any low bass at all... but it would be a good test. I'm all for science, if we're experimenting. I suspect that the Hertz HSK100 set would sound good since they are very efficient.

The greater concern when impedance is concerned is the Logic 7's ability to "push" through a passive crossover for the tweeter and the mid that are more complex than the series capacitor on the tweeter in the OEM system.

More complex crossover filters present a more rapidly rising impedance to the tweeter circuit below a certain frequency, and a more rapidly rising curve above a certain frequency for the mid circuit - with associated lost amp power - called insertion loss.

Some OEM amps really do NOT like pushing through higher-order passives. Some Acura amps come to mind.

Actually, your post is simply the bottom line of my post... trial and error. Expensive trial and error, but it works, though...

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

my understanding has always been that the logic 7 is complicated and it seems that the best bet is not to mess with it lol

Your BMW is complicated, too... but we all mod the snot out of them...

[Bulldog 6]

If you are going to replace the speakers you are definately going to need an amp. I recommend leaving the stock system alone and getting a Factory Signal Processing Unit, to add an amp and sub to your stock unit. Check it our on crutchfield.com; they have some Rockford Fosgate and Kenwood FSPU's.

[TheLegacy]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Your BMW is complicated, too... but we all mod the snot out of them...

your telling me. I've been dynoing and tuning it to get it right lately. I can deal with the physical parts, easy on and off. But electronics are a lil dif ;+)

got a link for Factory Signal Processing Unit (for Logic7/335)

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Bulldog 6

If you are going to replace the speakers you are definately going to need an amp. .

Really? Why?

Originally Posted by Bulldog 6

I recommend leaving the stock system alone and getting a Factory Signal Processing Unit, to add an amp and sub to your stock unit.

Again, OK, why?

Originally Posted by Bulldog 6

Check it our on crutchfield.com; they have some Rockford Fosgate and Kenwood FSPU's.

Crutchfield's in Virginia... You're in Virginia...

[TheLegacy]

So i got the info from SIM. Great guys, going to swing by tomorrow and check out a car they are working on.

They did the tweeters, front speakers, subs under the seat, and a JL sub in the trunk. They had an amp power everything... A little overboard for me i guess these days. So the speakers weren't left alone with factory sys, i told myself i want a car that comes with a good system so i wudnt have to go crazy like did with my WRX.

WRX had 6 speakers,
1 JL sub
2 amps

was fun but im older now lol

[VP Electricity]

Older just means you want it to sound better, not louder

[Bulldog 6]

VP, for some reason the quote button won't show me your questions so I will answer here.

1. Just like you said in your first post about the sound. I recommend that the OP add a 5 channel amp to filter the sounds for the front and rear speakers and use the 5th for a 10 inch sub. This will add clarity and bass (not booming, trunk rattling). My experience is that factory head units are made to support what ever configuration is being used and replacing a head unit without replacing speakers or the other way results in lost sound quality.

2. If messing with the electrical system is an issue I recommended getting the FSPU to ensure full use of steering wheel controls, AUX input, and IPOD function. https://www.crutchfield.com/App/Prod...3sixty&tp=6870


3. Not sure what you meant, but yes I am in RICHMOND, VA not CHARLOTTSVILLE, VA; and it takes 2 hours for me to drive there. Maybe you assume I work for them...I don't. Crutchfield has an excellent website with customer reviews and specks about what will fit in your specific car with out altering it. You can do a lot of reasearch on their website.