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      05-14-2015, 12:40 PM   #1
evanescent03
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228i track pack for HPDEs?

searching around I have seen mostly m235i with LSD being used for track duty. I've also seen people praising the weight/balance of the 228i for "driving" but I haven't seen many reports of people actually using a 228i with track package for HPDEs or open track time.

GSR has a full on track build but I'm wanting to do a 228i with MSport, track pack, manual transmission, aftermarket track pads and fluid and be good for a couple track days/year ...

what do you guys think? I'm not a pro but I usually run in intermediate/advanced-intermediate run groups so I need the car to be somewhat robust as far as braking/cooling go. I can live with sub-par "racecar feel/performance" but am looking for a fun car around $40k... was looking at Focus ST, Golf R stuff, started thinking I'd liked to stick with BMW so looked at an M235i .. with LSD already approaching $50k... lower is better and if the 228i would be a fun/capable car maybe I should just stick with that?

thanks for your feedback!

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      05-14-2015, 03:39 PM   #2
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The 228i will be a perfectly fun car for track duties. With that, you do not want to be on the track without an LSD. It is an annoying thing to be without such a tool.

As for the other vehicles you mentioned, the focus ST is a fun car, but the Golf R is limited at the track as it does not have a traction control that can be completely defeated. It will step in every chance it gets and drive you crazy. No lift throttle oversteer or trail braking to bring the rear around as would be possible with the focus ST.

Take the 228i with LSD and beat on it. Won't be disappointed.
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      05-14-2015, 06:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory@EAS
The 228i will be a perfectly fun car for track duties. With that, you do not want to be on the track without an LSD. It is an annoying thing to be without such a tool.

As for the other vehicles you mentioned, the focus ST is a fun car, but the Golf R is limited at the track as it does not have a traction control that can be completely defeated. It will step in every chance it gets and drive you crazy. No lift throttle oversteer or trail braking to bring the rear around as would be possible with the focus ST.

Take the 228i with LSD and beat on it. Won't be disappointed.
thanks for the input .. the newest Golf R supposedly has fully defeatable stability control. the lack of that feature is why I would never have gotten the previous version but his new one.... it has me interested.

I'll be test driving the 2er this weekend and I'll see how it goes. golf R is so few and far between which makes me think it would be harder to get support for track/aftermarket goodies compared to the 228i.

it appears that the track pack 228i gives the same suspension and brakes as the m235i has... are they really the same? and are there details I'm overlooking that would make the price premium on be m235i really worth it. 228i + MSport + track pack + LSD installed is probably still $5k less than the M235i with LSD... the extra ponies aren't really worth it to me ... my next car will be back into the M3+ territory so I just want something fun & capable for a while.

thanks again!
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      05-14-2015, 06:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
thanks for the input .. the newest Golf R supposedly has fully defeatable stability control. the lack of that feature is why I would never have gotten the previous version but his new one.... it has me interested.

I'll be test driving the 2er this weekend and I'll see how it goes. golf R is so few and far between which makes me think it would be harder to get support for track/aftermarket goodies compared to the 228i.

it appears that the track pack 228i gives the same suspension and brakes as the m235i has... are they really the same? and are there details I'm overlooking that would make the price premium on be m235i really worth it. 228i + MSport + track pack + LSD installed is probably still $5k less than the M235i with LSD... the extra ponies aren't really worth it to me ... my next car will be back into the M3+ territory so I just want something fun & capable for a while.

thanks again!
Supposedly the suspension is not the same between the 228i track package and the M235i -- but they are extremely similar. I was reading some interview and a BMW engineer said there are extra valves or something in the M235i struts. If you really want to know, look up the part numbers for each and see if they are the same.

The brakes are the same though (and very, very good).
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      05-14-2015, 08:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
thanks for the input .. the newest Golf R supposedly has fully defeatable stability control. the lack of that feature is why I would never have gotten the previous version but his new one.... it has me interested.

I'll be test driving the 2er this weekend and I'll see how it goes. golf R is so few and far between which makes me think it would be harder to get support for track/aftermarket goodies compared to the 228i.

it appears that the track pack 228i gives the same suspension and brakes as the m235i has... are they really the same? and are there details I'm overlooking that would make the price premium on be m235i really worth it. 228i + MSport + track pack + LSD installed is probably still $5k less than the M235i with LSD... the extra ponies aren't really worth it to me ... my next car will be back into the M3+ territory so I just want something fun & capable for a while.

thanks again!
Supposedly the suspension is not the same between the 228i track package and the M235i -- but they are extremely similar. I was reading some interview and a BMW engineer said there are extra valves or something in the M235i struts. If you really want to know, look up the part numbers for each and see if they are the same.

The brakes are the same though (and very, very good).
"extremely similar" is probably good enough for me .. I'm not looking for the "be all end all" track car.. the m235i isn't out of the question but I just don't know if I see the value in the extra several grand for it. at that point I may start looking at the m2......

seems like bang for the buck is high with the 228i track pack but looking at the "track role call" it's flooded with m235i guys ..
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      05-14-2015, 08:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
"extremely similar" is probably good enough for me .. I'm not looking for the "be all end all" track car.. the m235i isn't out of the question but I just don't know if I see the value in the extra several grand for it. at that point I may start looking at the m2......

seems like bang for the buck is high with the 228i track pack but looking at the "track role call" it's flooded with m235i guys ..
the 228 with THP is basically an M235 with n20 engine... you are missing some cosmetic things like the bumpers and steering wheel.... also sport seats unless you do m-sport or sport line
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      05-14-2015, 09:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
the 228 with THP is basically an M235 with n20 engine... you are missing some cosmetic things like the bumpers and steering wheel.... also sport seats unless you do m-sport or sport line
i'd do MSport line... the good looks is worth the money on that one ... so the biggest thing i'd be missing is the LSD option from the factory. i'll need to search around a little about those as i've never investigated an aftermarket LSD install. hopefully BMW could do it so it looks legit on their end while i'm under warranty. i'm going to test drive this weekend. i have an x3 28i and have ridden in my friend's 428xi several times so i doubt i'll think the 228i is slow.. hopefully it feels plenty adequate and i'll have my mind made up.. as long as i don't end up thinking the utility of a hatchback is more valuable than RWD fun :-/ family-play balance decisions!

time to a bit.
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      05-15-2015, 12:31 PM   #8
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To bad the track package does not come with the sport seats.
Because adding the M-line package with the track package you seem to pay for things twice.
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      05-15-2015, 06:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by cab33
To bad the track package does not come with the sport seats.
Because adding the M-line package with the track package you seem to pay for things twice.
I think it's discounted when added but I forget and using the BMW site in my phone makes me really pissed -- it's terrible. those two pkgs still keep it under $40k which is good based on the competition in that range
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      05-16-2015, 12:00 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
I think it's discounted when added but I forget and using the BMW site in my phone makes me really pissed -- it's terrible. those two pkgs still keep it under $40k which is good based on the competition in that range
I personally got a EB 228i with M-Sport, Track Handling Package, and Xenon Light Package. I got $38,600 out the door after finagling. I have high hopes for the vehicle as I hear only great things.

Only thing that is bothering me about the choices is the possible change in the adaptive suspension setup, as I believe they moved the adaptive suspension plug is now on the top of the suspension opposed to the side, which doesn't allow for camber plates.

Aside from all that, I only see positives to the 2015 model with these packages. I plan on throwing some H&R springs, a carbon fiber front splitter, a rear splitter with duel exhaust and a muffler delete, a JB4 tune, Injen Intake and some spacers. Aside from that, further down the line, maybe some aftermarket active suspension coil overs from KW, a catted downpipe, some rims, LSD, and maybe few other small things here and there to call it a day.

Probably not in that order, but I think it it would be a sweet car to mod it as time goes on.

Last edited by Dattebayo; 05-16-2015 at 02:39 PM..
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      05-16-2015, 07:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dattebayo
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Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
I think it's discounted when added but I forget and using the BMW site in my phone makes me really pissed -- it's terrible. those two pkgs still keep it under $40k which is good based on the competition in that range
I personally got a EB 228i with M-Sport, Sports Package, and Xenon Light Package. I got $38,600 out the door after finagling. I have high hopes for the vehicle as I hear only great things.

Only thing that is bothering me about the choices is the possible change in the adaptive suspension setup, as I believe they moved the adaptive suspension plug is now on the top of the suspension opposed to the side, which doesn't allow for camber plates.

Aside from all that, I only see positives to the 2015 model with these packages. I plan on throwing some H&R springs, a carbon fiber front splitter, a rear splitter with duel exhaust and a muffler delete, a JB4 tune, Injen Intake and some spacers. Aside from that, further down the line, maybe some aftermarket active suspension coil overs from KW, a catted downpipe, some rims, LSD, and maybe few other small things here and there to call it a day.

Probably not in that order, but I think it it would be a sweet car to mod it as time goes on.
when u say "sports pkg" are you talking about the track package? pretty darn good deal.. did that include taxes? if so that's a real killer car for the price .. even without taxes that's pretty solid.

did u get 6MT or 8AT and what do you think of it so far?
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      05-16-2015, 12:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
when u say "sports pkg" are you talking about the track package? pretty darn good deal.. did that include taxes? if so that's a real killer car for the price .. even without taxes that's pretty solid.

did u get 6MT or 8AT and what do you think of it so far?
Sorry, yes it is with the track package. It was originally at $37,700 without the Xenon Lights and adaptive lighting, but I really wanted the signature angel eyes. I got it in 6MT because I really wanted to get a MT before all the car companies phase them out. The price is out the door.
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      05-16-2015, 04:33 PM   #13
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FWIW, the Golf R initial allocation for the U.S.A. sold-out the first day it became available.
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      05-16-2015, 04:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foamie
FWIW, the Golf R initial allocation for the U.S.A. sold-out the first day it became available.
they're more than difficult to come by... I don't want one badly enough to order it without driving it... driving an m235i and 228i MSport back to back today was fun. extra pop in the m235i is nice and probably the one I'd go with but I will have to see when the m2 is coming and see if I'll just get one of those ... so much more aggressive looking from what I've seen
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      05-17-2015, 05:24 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
they're more than difficult to come by... I don't want one badly enough to order it without driving it... driving an m235i and 228i MSport back to back today was fun. extra pop in the m235i is nice and probably the one I'd go with but I will have to see when the m2 is coming and see if I'll just get one of those ... so much more aggressive looking from what I've seen
I was on the same situation you are; read and watched all the reviews and was ready to jump on the Golf R but ultimately decided on the m235i RWD due to my preference for RWD and availability of a LSD. I was able to drive the GTI which is as close as I could get to the R last December and it was IMHO the best handling FWD car I have ever driven.... so my thinking was WOW.. the R would be so much better.
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      05-17-2015, 08:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foamie
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Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
they're more than difficult to come by... I don't want one badly enough to order it without driving it... driving an m235i and 228i MSport back to back today was fun. extra pop in the m235i is nice and probably the one I'd go with but I will have to see when the m2 is coming and see if I'll just get one of those ... so much more aggressive looking from what I've seen
I was on the same situation you are; read and watched all the reviews and was ready to jump on the Golf R but ultimately decided on the m235i RWD due to my preference for RWD and availability of a LSD. I was able to drive the GTI which is as close as I could get to the R last December and it was IMHO the best handling FWD car I have ever driven.... so my thinking was WOW.. the R would be so much better.
I'm planning on driving a GTI next weekend. the Golf R seems better than the GTI but I don't think the value is quite there over the GTI from what I've read but no seat time myself. staying in a BMW for similar money is tempting. after driving the 228i and m235i back to back I think I would go m235i if I had to choose today. that extra power is nice on track, but especially nice on the street where it seems like I would always be romping on the 228i to get a sporty drive out of it whereas the m235i doesn't need to be hammered as hard to get going at a decent clip (even merging/passing etc)
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      05-17-2015, 09:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
I'm planning on driving a GTI next weekend. the Golf R seems better than the GTI but I don't think the value is quite there over the GTI from what I've read but no seat time myself. staying in a BMW for similar money is tempting. after driving the 228i and m235i back to back I think I would go m235i if I had to choose today. that extra power is nice on track, but especially nice on the street where it seems like I would always be romping on the 228i to get a sporty drive out of it whereas the m235i doesn't need to be hammered as hard to get going at a decent clip (even merging/passing etc)
The GTI was very impressive FOR A FWD car IMHO Almost no understeer even with a heavy foot on turns thanks to the brake based torque vectoring which the R also gets but with AWD and more power. I obviously drove the GTI since there were no R's available. If you are not a track rat and not worried about potentially over-taxed brakes (due to them working overtime doing torque vectoring), then it makes sense from a financial perspective; assuming one is available.

The m235i as you have noted delivers the power effortlessly but also has a very refined suspension feel and "just the right size". I ordered mine as bare as i dare but had to compromise with the wife (since it's her car); sensatec, sunrooof delete, LSD, electronic steering wheel and heated seats.
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      05-17-2015, 09:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foamie View Post
The GTI was very impressive FOR A FWD car IMHO Almost no understeer even with a heavy foot on turns thanks to the brake based torque vectoring which the R also gets but with AWD and more power. I obviously drove the GTI since there were no R's available. If you are not a track rat and not worried about potentially over-taxed brakes (due to them working overtime doing torque vectoring), then it makes sense from a financial perspective; assuming one is available.

The m235i as you have noted delivers the power effortlessly but also has a very refined suspension feel and "just the right size". I ordered mine as bare as i dare but had to compromise with the wife (since it's her car); sensatec, sunrooof delete, LSD, electronic steering wheel and heated seats.
is this torque vectoring similar to the eDiff with DSC off on the BMW?
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      05-17-2015, 10:05 PM   #19
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is this torque vectoring similar to the eDiff with DSC off on the BMW?
Yes, but there is NO electronic differential.... it is done by the brakes of the car, so there is always the possibility of them being overworked especially in a tight track... I have NEVER seen it in real life though so it might be an unnecessary worry. I have seen them run pretty much ALL DAY with the only break being to stage again on a test & tune autocross using a full roadcourse and the GTI did not skip a beat nor did I observe/smell any overheated brakes.
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      05-17-2015, 10:52 PM   #20
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Yes, but there is NO electronic differential.... it is done by the brakes of the car, so there is always the possibility of them being overworked especially in a tight track... I have NEVER seen it in real life though so it might be an unnecessary worry. I have seen them run pretty much ALL DAY with the only break being to stage again on a test & tune autocross using a full roadcourse and the GTI did not skip a beat nor did I observe/smell any overheated brakes.
Don't quite understand this comment as this is how the electronic differential on the BMW's work. They use the brakes to mimic the effects of a mechanical LSD.
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      05-17-2015, 11:26 PM   #21
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Don't quite understand this comment as this is how the electronic differential on the BMW's work. They use the brakes to mimic the effects of a mechanical LSD.
The "REAL M" cars(M3,M4 etc) have an electronic differential which is electronically actuated (and is an active even predictive) while the rest of the line including the m235i have brake based systems that attempt to replicate the function of a limited slip differential using brakes to slow down a slipping wheel and thus directing the torque to the wheel with less slippage (the M car electronic diffs can even predict this and engage before slipping occurs).

The m235i can be purchased (i ordered my car with one) with an optional Limited Slip Differential (mechanical) and quite a few people even have more specialized differentials that they install which is useful for frequently tracked/auto-X/winter/etc activities. I hope that helped a little
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      05-18-2015, 12:16 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foamie
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Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post
Don't quite understand this comment as this is how the electronic differential on the BMW's work. They use the brakes to mimic the effects of a mechanical LSD.
The "REAL M" cars(M3,M4 etc) have an electronic differential which is electronically actuated (and is an active even predictive) while the rest of the line including the m235i have brake based systems that attempt to replicate the function of a limited slip differential using brakes to slow down a slipping wheel and thus directing the torque to the wheel with less slippage (the M car electronic diffs can even predict this and engage before slipping occurs).

The m235i can be purchased (i ordered my car with one) with an optional Limited Slip Differential (mechanical) and quite a few people even have more specialized differentials that they install which is useful for frequently tracked/auto-X/winter/etc activities. I hope that helped a little
even on the M cars, if you leave it in M Dynanic Mode, it uses brakes and can reduce cooling. I turned TCS/ESC all off for this reason (and cutting in annoyed me)

so can you turn this brake intervention off, I wonder? I am far from a track rat but do enjoy the occasional track day with the intermediate or advanced run groups (depending on track familiarity, organization etc).

I do like the added space in the hatches (GTI/focus st, my current m3) over the 2ers, but the 2 has more street cred appeal to me and the RWD is quite nice. that being said, I could definitely hobble along a few years in a FWD car and pick up a RWD car again someday..
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