[Tengocity]

The last few days I've been up in Scotland helping out my dad who is not able to drive at the moment, which has involved a fair bit of using his car, which is a 2003 525i Sport auto.

As many will know the E39 is often considered the best car BMW ever made. I have to say that I can totally see why!

The classic BMW straight six petrol engine is a thing of absolute delight at times. It's just soooo smooth it's ridiculous! It has a lovely noise, and great throttle response. Compared to the modern ZF 8 speed the old school slusher is a bit of a reminder as to why many of us may have resisted autos for so long though.

However, given that it's a 12 year old car it impresses in so many ways. The thing feels absolutely bullet proof, without a single creak or rattle from anywhere in the interior. The leather seats do seem to be originally from a cow! The noise suppression at speed is considerably better than my 335d also.

The ride is good, with a lovely balance of ride and handling that just feels "expensive" as it moves down the road.

It does feel a bit slow in the steering but I think that's comparing it to a modern car with VSS and much lighter EPS.

I'm not sure it entertains in the handling department quite like mine but then a 5 series is a more mature car I guess.

And despite its smoothness and lovely throttle response it feels absolutely gutless in the midrange!

My dad struggles to do 24mpg as an average though as he does about 5k miles per year it doesn't matter... Not sure he's too happy at my 19mpg!

It's been a very nice comparison this last few days, and I would just love my 335d to have the 'hewn from Rock' feel, the refinement, and the silky smoothness of that car, with the handling, fun, power and gearbox of mine. That would be the perfect car in my eyes.

[PurpleTT]

This is an interesting read and does kinda suggest BMW's perfect car would be a combo of e39/f30!

Tell me though, I'm sure I read somewhere that today's 3 series is as big as a 10 year old 5 series. So whenever it comes up in conversation I quote that. Would I be right do you think or am I talking my usual bollox? (Overall length/width/cabin space/etc)

[Andrewthefirst]

A cracking car- one of those bm's that really looked exclusive at the time. If I remember right the sport or m-sport wheels were almost exactly like the standard 18 msport f30 ones!

You're right about that straight 6 petrol- a neighbour has an e93 330i and I listen out for it every morning.

[SkyJawa]

My f31 is certainly not much smaller (except the inside!) than my neighbours e39 touring.

Edit, wider but very slightly smaller length

[Nick the Greek]

petrol Engines.

Love Them!

[JD6]

Fond memories of my E39s, a 540i and an M5. Both superb cars which I ordered from dealers in Europe due to the insane price difference between the UK and everywhere else at the time.

My 1999 540i had an almost identical list and actual purchase price to my 335d (£50k and £39k respectively) and given that there were 15 years in between, it shows just how good value the F30 is with current discounts. The F30 is a much faster, better equipped and slightly larger car, but taking inflation into account it is about 40% cheaper than the 540i.

I do miss the solidity of the E39, but I would rather pay £38.5k to have my car as it is, than £54k for one with slightly better materials.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by PurpleTT

This is an interesting read and does kinda suggest BMW's perfect car would be a combo of e39/f30!

Tell me though, I'm sure I read somewhere that today's 3 series is as big as a 10 year old 5 series. So whenever it comes up in conversation I quote that. Would I be right do you think or am I talking my usual bollox? (Overall length/width/cabin space/etc)

Driving it and parking it felt much the same size wise to my F31.

I had an E60 520d a few years back and that felt huge compared to the E90.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by JD6

Fond memories of my E39s, a 540i and an M5. Both superb cars which I ordered from dealers in Europe due to the insane price difference between the UK and everywhere else at the time.

My 1999 540i had an almost identical list and actual purchase price to my 335d (50k and 39k respectively) and given that there were 15 years in between, it shows just how good value the F30 is with current discounts. The F30 is a much faster, better equipped and slightly larger car, but taking inflation into account it is about 40% cheaper than the 540i.

I do miss the solidity of the E39, but I would rather pay 38.5k to have my car as it is, than 54k for one with slightly better materials.

I guess you and hundreds of thousands of others all agree and BMW worked it out, as that's certainly where the business model has gone.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

petrol Engines.

Love Them!

Me too!

[PurpleTT]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

My f31 is certainly not much smaller (except the inside!) than my neighbours e39 touring.

Edit, wider but very slightly smaller length

Length: e39 4,805 vs F31 4,624 (e39 is 7" longer)
Width: e39 1,800 vs F31 2,031 (F31 is 9" wider)
Cabin width e39 1,457 (av) vs F31 1,451 (e39 is 1/4" wider)
Wheelbase e39 2,830 vs F31 2,810 (e39 is 3/4" longer)

So e39 is 3.9% longer than F31 but F31 is 12.8% wider than e39.

Fat little fucker isn't it

[james d]

Still have fond memories of my 540i touring with the hifi you could change to sound like you were sitting in a church!

[gembrain]

I bought my 1999 E39 528i in 2005 as a stop gap after my previous car was w/o. Compared to the E36 it felt like driving a barge on wheels!

Well 10 years is a long time for a temporary car and it's fair to say that the missus and I have grown to love it over the years. Hewn from rock is a great description.

If it wasn't for the fact that there are just a few too many expensive bits to fix I would probably keep it yet another year! We will miss it

[Tengocity]

I can totally understand that feeling!

It's making me want to go and look up E39 M5s on auto trader!

Though the bills for them would be super scary I imagine!

[SkyJawa]

Only ones under 100k miles go for more than E60's!

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I can totally understand that feeling!

It's making me want to go and look up E39 M5s on auto trader!

Though the bills for them would be super scary I imagine!

The M5 was significantly better built that even the high standards of other E39s in my experience. The move from a 540i to an M5 felt like a real step up in terms of interior quality, beyond just the nappa leather. It is one of the few cars I look back on and regret selling.

In my earlier comparison perhaps I should probably have compared my previous £39k 540i with a new £28k 328i (instead of my 335d) which has comparable performance. That makes today's cars look like an absolute bargain!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by JD6

The M5 was significantly better built that even the high standards of other E39s in my experience. The move from a 540i to an M5 felt like a real step up in terms of interior quality, beyond just the nappa leather. It is one of the few cars I look back on and regret selling.

In my earlier comparison perhaps I should probably have compared my previous £39k 540i with a new £28k 328i (instead of my 335d) which has comparable performance. That makes today's cars look like an absolute bargain!

The issue for me would be that what would I really gain over my fairly well fettled 335d?

The V8 would be nice, but ultimately no quicker than my car. I know for a fact they aren't having had a fun little tussle with one last week- he tried very hard but I was keeping up with him at a canter. The noise alone doesn't make up for the servicing and fuel bills... does the handling?

So for a weekend car I do always feel that a more out and out sports car would be required ie. older Boxster or 911

[sweels]

Can relate to this having also had an e39 525i manual and now a 335d (with an e91 320d in between) and the refinement gap is noticeable (more so from e39 to e91 but that is probably the bridgestone rfts it came with!)

Difficult to compare directly as the 3s I had from new whereas the e39 was from 87k to 124k miles.
Yes, as Tengocity says, it was a bit gutless in the mid range, although being manual was easy to keep on song (I always wished I'd held out for a 530i) especially as being pre 2006 meant the >225g/km of the 530i didn't hike the tax to 450 or 500 either. (The manual 535i saloon was bang on 225g, incidentally) Only other thing I didn't like was that the factory fit stereo was very weak even compared with the standard fit stereo in my Dad's similar age A6 and that it used a bit of oil but nothing excessive. Oh, and as it wasn't a sport, the 'wood' on the dash was a bit unpleasant.

[sweels]

Oh, and incidentally, the diagram above implies 1800mm is the width including mirrors whereas I think that is actually the excluding mirrors, so the comparable figure is approx 1930mm so whilst the f30/31 have put a bit of girth on since the e39, they're not quite as bad relatively.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

The issue for me would be that what would I really gain over my fairly well fettled 335d?

The V8 would be nice, but ultimately no quicker than my car. I know for a fact they aren't having had a fun little tussle with one last week- he tried very hard but I was keeping up with him at a canter. The noise alone doesn't make up for the servicing and fuel bills... does the handling?

So for a weekend car I do always feel that a more out and out sports car would be required ie. older Boxster or 911

I'm sure the M5 would be a little slower than your current car. As you say there wouldn't be much point for you, but 15 years ago the E39 M5 was a truly incredible machine. I ordered mine in Oxford Green - it was the ultimate Q car of its day.

A similar one:

[HighlandPete]

Interesting comments Terry, good to here your dad still has the 525i and it is driving well.

I rate the E39 as one of the worlds best 'real world' cars ever. Having owned a well specified E39 540i Touring for over 4-years, incidentally had Terry's dad look after it, (BTW, Terry's father is a great guy), I have fond memories of driving it. It is the abilities of the E39, to why I finally got back into a Five, instead of an F31. Terry's father ribbed me for going 330d after the V8, "BMW are petrol motors". Terry will understand.

Many of my drives in the F11 535i remind me of the 540i, similar performance and the benefit of a turbo giving a mid range something like the V8. I sense the E39 DNA in the F10/11 models, shame they have bloated in size, but then so has the 3-series.

My next door neighbour still runs an E39 535i, bought it about a year old, now over 300,000 miles and it owes him nothing. His wife uses it most days. The sound of the V8 as it burbles past my home, still stirs the memories. My neighbour's car has been amazingly reliable, it has had a few minor issues, mostly common to the E39, but nothing serious.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

My 1998 E39 540i (80,000+ miles)



Current F11 535i, really a natural progression from the E39, IMO.

HighlandPete

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Interesting comments Terry, good to here your dad still has the 525i and it is driving well.

I rate the E39 as one of the worlds best 'real world' cars ever. Having owned a well specified E39 540i Touring for over 4-years, incidentally had Terry's dad look after it, (BTW, Terry's father is a great guy), I have fond memories of driving it. It is the abilities of the E39, to why I finally got back into a Five, instead of an F31. Terry's father ribbed me for going 330d after the V8, "BMW are petrol motors". Terry will understand.

Many of my drives in the F11 535i remind me of the 540i, similar performance and the benefit of a turbo giving a mid range something like the V8. I sense the E39 DNA in the F10/11 models, shame they have bloated in size, but then so has the 3-series.

My next door neighbour still runs an E39 535i, bought it about a year old, now over 300,000 miles and it owes him nothing. His wife uses it most days. The sound of the V8 as it burbles past my home, still stirs the memories. My neighbour's car has been amazingly reliable, it has had a few minor issues, mostly common to the E39, but nothing serious.

HighlandPete

Yes , it does indeed drive well! If it wasn't for the odd bubble of rust starting on the front wings you'd swear it was no more than a few years old. And when the engine starts and you pull away you'd actually think it was an engine of the future- it seems noticeably smoother than a modern 6 pot in a 3 series (due to direct injection presumably?). I haven't driven a petrol F10 5 series to compare.

I can assure you he still has a Nick the Greek view of the world when it comes to what should power a car. I think the old army days when diesel meant smelly trucks and tanks will never leave him. Having said that he did nearly buy my last E90 330d, but then realised it was a waste of money for his mileage, and that for his uses the 525i suited him to perfection.