[Roman-dude]

Hey guys, hoping there's a salesman or two here who could answer this. Can the dealer retail the car that doesn't have a catalytic converter? They took that in as a trade-in. I know I will have to put that in to pass the inspection, but I would be willing to bite that myself, as long as I can get it. What I really want to know is if there really is a law (NJ) that says that they cannot retail it.

thanks

[///Mposter]

I thought normally if a car is traded and doesn't pass initial inspection that they just send it off to auction.

[Fred_Boosted]

Yes, they can.

That is why they do not transfer plates for used car buyers that purchased a car four years old or more in Ohio.

[timothy2001]

Hold on a sec, state laws vary however a cat is a federal emissions requirement and prior to retail sale in states that require safety and emissions inspections a cat is required equipment.

Regardless of where the Dealer sources the car from, an inspection is required prior to sale and the Dealer cannot legally retail a car that does not pass inspection.

So the answer to your question is no.

Check with NJ DMV or public safety or whatever they call it there to be absolutely certain though.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by Fred_Boosted

Yes, they can.

That is why they do not transfer plates for used car buyers that purchased a car four years old or more in Ohio.

When does the dealer ever transfer plates? The BMV does all plate transfers in Ohio.

Originally Posted by timothy2001

Regardless of where the Dealer sources the car from, an inspection is required prior to sale and the Dealer cannot legally retail a car that does not pass inspection.

So the answer to your question is no.

Check with NJ DMV or public safety or whatever they call it there to be absolutely certain though.

Every state is different. Ohio sells a lot of as-is and only emissions tests in a few counties. No inspection is required at all.

[robthewrench]

A dealer can certainly sell a car that is not road worthy. This would include wrecked cars, emission problems, etc...The car just has to have a valid title.

Be sure to check how they sold it to you on the bill of sale. It will detail whether the dealer is on the hook for any required repairs to get the car registered and pass any relevant inspections.

[shushikiary]

It really depends on the state... let me tell you a story....

Here in Colorado the dealer license is controlled by the Colorado department of revenue motor vehicle department.... I know it sounds redundant, but its the truth.

The reason I know this is I had a dealer sell me a car with an illegal tint on it once, and when I bought it I asked them if it was illegal and they said no, which I asked for that in writing. A few years later I got pulled over and given a ticket for an illegal tint. I called the dealership and they said it was my problem, not there's and they would do nothing about it. So this led me to the same question you're asking, is it legal for them to do that? I called the drivers license section of the DMV, they said call the registration section o the DMV, who I called and they told me to call the license section of the DMV... joy. Eventually I did my own digging and got a hold of the Colorado department of revenue motor vehicle department and got a lady who I chatted with that pointed me to the exact Colorado statute that says its illegal for a dealership to sell a car that is illegally equipped. She explained that they are in charge of the licenses for the dealership and that if they did indeed sell me, knowingly, a car with an illegal tint that she could revoke their dealership license.... talk about a big no no.

She asked if I wanted them to start an investigation, and I told her to wait and let me contact them first. I called the dealership back and told them the statute and that I had been in contact with this lady, they then asked me when I'd like to have the car in to have the tint replaced .

I shouldnt have had to get out the big stick like that to make them do the right thing.... but the bottom line is, it depends on your state, and in some states, like colorado, you could get their dealership license taken away if they sold you an illegally equipped car.

[techwhiz]

Some of you should read.
The question is not whether a dealer can sell a car that doesn't emissions, etc.
It specifically asks if a dealer can "retail" a car without the cat.
In general if a dealer sells a car for the road it must include *ALL* safety and emissions related equipment.

Removing of emissions equipment violates federal emissions laws in all states.
A dealer therefor can't retail a car without the federally mandated equipment.

[ayayron]

I'm the the business and a dealer cannot retail a car without cats. In fact, customers are required to sign a form that they will not remove or tamper with any emission control equipment on the vehicle they are buying.

[driverman]

Originally Posted by shushikiary

It really depends on the state... let me tell you a story....

Here in Colorado the dealer license is controlled by the Colorado department of revenue motor vehicle department.... I know it sounds redundant, but its the truth.

The reason I know this is I had a dealer sell me a car with an illegal tint on it once, and when I bought it I asked them if it was illegal and they said no, which I asked for that in writing. A few years later I got pulled over and given a ticket for an illegal tint. I called the dealership and they said it was my problem, not there's and they would do nothing about it. So this led me to the same question you're asking, is it legal for them to do that? I called the drivers license section of the DMV, they said call the registration section o the DMV, who I called and they told me to call the license section of the DMV... joy. Eventually I did my own digging and got a hold of the Colorado department of revenue motor vehicle department and got a lady who I chatted with that pointed me to the exact Colorado statute that says its illegal for a dealership to sell a car that is illegally equipped. She explained that they are in charge of the licenses for the dealership and that if they did indeed sell me, knowingly, a car with an illegal tint that she could revoke their dealership license.... talk about a big no no.

She asked if I wanted them to start an investigation, and I told her to wait and let me contact them first. I called the dealership back and told them the statute and that I had been in contact with this lady, they then asked me when I'd like to have the car in to have the tint replaced .

I shouldnt have had to get out the big stick like that to make them do the right thing.... but the bottom line is, it depends on your state, and in some states, like colorado, you could get their dealership license taken away if they sold you an illegally equipped car.

Great story. Thanks for sharing.

[YouAreMyWorld]

Originally Posted by shushikiary

It really depends on the state... let me tell you a story....

Here in Colorado the dealer license is controlled by the Colorado department of revenue motor vehicle department.... I know it sounds redundant, but its the truth.

The reason I know this is I had a dealer sell me a car with an illegal tint on it once, and when I bought it I asked them if it was illegal and they said no, which I asked for that in writing. A few years later I got pulled over and given a ticket for an illegal tint. I called the dealership and they said it was my problem, not there's and they would do nothing about it. So this led me to the same question you're asking, is it legal for them to do that? I called the drivers license section of the DMV, they said call the registration section o the DMV, who I called and they told me to call the license section of the DMV... joy. Eventually I did my own digging and got a hold of the Colorado department of revenue motor vehicle department and got a lady who I chatted with that pointed me to the exact Colorado statute that says its illegal for a dealership to sell a car that is illegally equipped. She explained that they are in charge of the licenses for the dealership and that if they did indeed sell me, knowingly, a car with an illegal tint that she could revoke their dealership license.... talk about a big no no.

She asked if I wanted them to start an investigation, and I told her to wait and let me contact them first. I called the dealership back and told them the statute and that I had been in contact with this lady, they then asked me when I'd like to have the car in to have the tint replaced .

I shouldnt have had to get out the big stick like that to make them do the right thing.... but the bottom line is, it depends on your state, and in some states, like colorado, you could get their dealership license taken away if they sold you an illegally equipped car.

Honestly, unless my buying experience was somehow stellar and out of this world, I may have just been "that guy" and brought them up to be investigated if they told me to essentially piss off.

I just cannot stand people, especially shady businesses, that turn their cheek when a previous customer spent their hard earned money at their establishment. I know it might seem like a small thing, but it's the principle of the matter. Who knows what some other unfortunate soul may have encountered with a vehicle purchased from them and they simply told said customer "it's your problem not ours". You give these places an inch and they'll take a mile.

I'm all about being the nice guy, but sometimes people need to be taught a lesson. Obviously I'm not exactly aware of all the intangibles, but as aforementioned, if I was basically told to piss off, I'd highly consider giving them the finger.

The reason why I say that is because I know if I were to have any problem with my vehicle, my dealer would help me or at the very least point me in the right direction--with or without the need for legal litigation. For they already have with a slight issue I had.

That sort of insufficient business practice makes finding a used car dealership that actually respects, helps, and doesn't simply see customers as just "$$$$" a rarity and surprise--when it never should be in the first place.

Sorry for the rant.

[Greyfox]

It varies from state to state, but technically a dealership selling a car that will not pass what ever federal regulations there are is just asking for a huge amount of problems.

[shushikiary]

Originally Posted by YouAreMyWorld

Honestly, unless my buying experience was somehow stellar and out of this world, I may have just been "that guy" and brought them up to be investigated if they told me to essentially piss off.

I just cannot stand people, especially shady businesses, that turn their cheek when a previous customer spent their hard earned money at their establishment. I know it might seem like a small thing, but it's the principle of the matter. Who knows what some other unfortunate soul may have encountered with a vehicle purchased from them and they simply told said customer "it's your problem not ours". You give these places an inch and they'll take a mile.

I'm all about being the nice guy, but sometimes people need to be taught a lesson. Obviously I'm not exactly aware of all the intangibles, but as aforementioned, if I was basically told to piss off, I'd highly consider giving them the finger.

The reason why I say that is because I know if I were to have any problem with my vehicle, my dealer would help me or at the very least point me in the right direction--with or without the need for legal litigation. For they already have with a slight issue I had.

That sort of insufficient business practice makes finding a used car dealership that actually respects, helps, and doesn't simply see customers as just "$$$$" a rarity and surprise--when it never should be in the first place.

Sorry for the rant.

Yea, that was my first thought. But its likely they would get away with it and I wouldnt get my tint fixed, and secondly I am reminded of the fact that often times people will judge you the same way you judge others. I know everyone makes mistakes, and maybe they just had one bad manager, or one bad sales man and I wouldnt want everyone at the dealership to lose their jobs for something they didnt do. At the end of the day, they did what was right and fixed the problem, I'll take that as good enough without causing collateral damage, and in hope that grace is sufficient because we all make mistakes.

But from an ideological standpoint, I do understand your side.

Just because a dealer "can't" sell a car with missing cats, doesn't mean it hasn't happen; especially when it's a brand of car they don't sell new/don't have enough experience with. For instance, I'm sure there are plenty of instances where an N54 equipped car has been traded into a dealership with c@tless downp!pes and a tune. The dealership gives it a once over, sees that it has cats in place (secondary cats, that is), doesn't see a check engine light, puts just enough money into the car to get it through inspection (brakes, tires, etc.), then it sits on the lot waiting to be sold. If the mechanic pushing it through inspection isn't an expert on the platform, those details could easily be missed. Not everyone knows that N54 equipped vehicles came with cats in the downpipes; especially when you have a mechanic that ONLY works on trade-ins. I'd imagine they see every type of vehicle under the sun and aren't an expert on any particular make/model.

Case in point; when I owned an '03 Si, I was active on the K-series boards. Around that time, a fellow member on the forum bought a used RSX-S from a used car lot that was owned by a major dealership in his town. After a couple months of driving it, he felt it to be a bit slower than he would imagine an "S" should feel, so he took it to get dyno'ed to confirm his suspicions. Long story short, the original owner of the car blew up the stock motor and swapped in a much cheaper/slower Si motor in it instead, then traded the car in to the dealership lol point being that if a mechanic isn't familiar enough with one particular platform, that type of $hit will pass right by them without them even knowing.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Just because a dealer "can't" sell a car with missing cats, doesn't mean it doesn't happen; especially when it's a brand of car they don't sell new. For instance, I'm sure there are plenty of instances where an N54 equipped car has been traded in with c@tless downp!pes and a tune. The dealership gives it a once over, sees that it has cats in place (secondary cats, that is), doesn't see a check engine light, puts enough money into the car to get it through inspection, then it sits on the lot waiting to be sold. If the mechanic pushing it through inspection isn't an expert on the platform, those details could easily be missed.

Case in point; when I owned an '03 Si, I was active on the K-series boards. Around that time, a fellow member on the forum bought a used RSX-S from a used car lot that was owned by a major dealership in his town. After a couple months of driving it, he felt it to be a bit slower than he would imagine an "S" should feel, so he took it to get dyno'ed to confirm his suspicions. Long story short, the original owner of the car blew up the stock motor and swapped in a much cheaper/slower Si motor in it instead, then traded the car in to the dealership lol point being that if a mechanic isn't familiar enough with one particular platform, that type of $hit will pass right by them without them even knowing.

El Oh El

And yeah this happens all the time. I remember reading a thread on another forum where a guy bought a CPO car from a dealer that had tune, turbo, dp... all kinds of stuff done to it. He documented it all at the dealer, since he knew what to look for. Then when he had some warranty issues due to the aftermarket parts, the dealer ended up having to honor it. Granted it was a long battle, but still.

[catcher22]

This is one of those "gray" legal areas that are often resolved on a case by case basis. Also depends on how good the lawyers are on each side. Even if there is precedence, another case will likely be different. You'll get a different answer from different (even legitimate) sources. Technically it is illegal, but proving a violation of the law is another story.