[danf01]

Most here know better than to use this crap in their cars but pass it on...


http://www.youtube.com/embed/ceW9Nc1...yer_detailpage

[atinybug]

Hey I seemed to have traveled back in time. Is it 2012 again?

[Fred_Boosted]

First, its fox news.

Second, they say 87 with E15, will be 84 octane plus 15% ethanol. I think its BS.

Third, yes the ethanol fuel will cause problems to fuel system, but no one 100% sure what type Efuel, whether is E15,E30 or E85. To run higher than E15, maybe should upgrade their fuel lane and clean injectors often.

btw, I wouldn't say no to E15.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Fred_Boosted

First, its fox news.

Second, they say 87 with E15, will be 84 octane plus 15% ethanol. I think its BS.

Third, yes the ethanol fuel will cause problems to fuel system, but no one 100% sure what type Efuel, whether is E15,E30 or E85. To run higher than E15, maybe should upgrade their fuel lane and clean injectors often.

btw, I wouldn't say no to E15.

It's Fox BUSINESS, and what does that have to do with anything? I guess you only watch MSLSD.

[335NJ]

They can't lower octane on premium fuel below 91 so I wouldn't worry too much, almost every car with a "performance" engine (BMW, MB, Infiniti, etc) requires 91 or higher, so I'm sure there'd be some lobbying done on the car manufacturers end.

[Ml3456]

Lobbying by the ADM and the ethanol producers. The car manufacturers, gasoline station associations, oil companies are fighting it hard. Alderman Burke's son here in Chicago now works for a ethanol company so daddy is trying to take car of is kid making E15 a mandate in Chicago. Most of the gas stations and many car parts don't mix well with E15.

[hassmaschine]

ethanol reduces your fuel economy. it's not like they're going to pass on the "savings" (if there is any at today's oil prices) onto the consumers. that means you pay the same amount for less energy content. Ethanol sucks unless it's E85 for a turbo car.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

ethanol reduces your fuel economy. it's not like they're going to pass on the "savings" (if there is any at today's oil prices) onto the consumers. that means you pay the same amount for less energy content. Ethanol sucks unless it's E85 for a turbo car.

Dumb question... how does e85 on a turbo car help more if ethanol has less energy? I know lots of moders/tuners like to convert to use high amounts of ethanol... but not sure how it technically works to give more power???

[hassmaschine]

it increases effective octane because it has cooling properties (but only at high concentrations, like 85% - E10/E15 doesn't do shit). so you can run more boost, basically, without increasing heat (to a point).

To compensate for the loss of energy, you have to use a lot more of it and run richer. that's why E85 is usually accompanied by fuel system upgrades.

[aloyouis]

Originally Posted by Fred_Boosted

First, its fox news.

This only INCREASES my faith in the story. Now if it were the Clinton New Network (CNN) I might blow it off.

[sunsin]

Originally Posted by Fred_Boosted

First, its fox news.

Originally Posted by aloyouis

This only INCREASES my faith in the story. Now if it were the Clinton New Network (CNN) I might blow it off.

sorry to divert the thread but aloyouis i think Fred is alluding to Fox's truth scorecard


To me the story seems overly alarmist and actually promoting misinformation. The story is simple: E15 is safe if it is used as it should be, only in flexfuel cars - at 3:45 mark. It's similar to using diesel in only diesel cars; gasoline would screw things up.

Sorry to say but the parts trying to link this basic consumer label reading issue to "corn subsidies", "money changing hands", "government pushing this down our throat", "consumers hurt badly", "expensive groceries", detonation, and 80% of the clip is just redneck ant-government gun toting terror rhetoric.

Anyways, i learned something new so cool

[stanlalee]

Some of you act like you have a personal relationship with petrol or for some odd reason forgot your here as an enthusiast and decided to drink the political Kool-Aid in determining your preference for fuel. Ethanol runs much cleaner, keeps engine much cleaner, keeps combustion cooler and is cheaper to produce (no you won't get the saving passed on to you in a mandated mix but E85 here is a full $1/gallon cheaper than 93 oct petrol). Gas mileage and shelf life are the ONLY relevant advantage petrol has over ethanol (sort of see below). Should have bought a Prius if frugality was your top priority anyway. Petrol or higher petrol content is in no way, shape or form better for your engine than ethanol (note to non enthusiast, your fuel lines are not your engine). There is no car enthusiast rationale for opposing more ethanol content.

E85 is a full $1/gallon cheaper than 93 oct here and that $16 per tank savings EASILY buys a couple extra gallons of ethanol required to make up the difference in gas mileage between petrol and ethanol. If you have a flex fuel vehicle or make your 335 full e85 capable you save AT LEAST $10 per tank of petrol you would have used unless petrol prices come way down or e85 prices go way up. During the winter E85 winter mix (probably E70) was a whopping $1.49 per gallon here, $2/gallon cheaper than 93 oct petrol! So while you won't get any savings passed on in mandated mixes maybe you should interest yourself in running higher content from enthusiast and economical vantage points. Why you care if oil companies get richer vs corn farmers getting richer is beyond me. If Walbro can figure out how to offer a ethanol ready fuel pump for $20 more retail than a $100 non rated one I'm sure Ford, Chevy and BMW can figure out. Never mind my 2007 stock fuel system 120k mile 335 has been running E40 for 50k miles with no issues I find it hard to believe e15 is going to corrode bore thru the lines of current vehicles already designed to use e10 (because 85% petrol content is so much less than 90% petrol content )

[924er]

I'm surprised fox didn't blame this on Obama

[Ml3456]

Thread is on E15, not E85. And without government subsidies from US it would be about $5/gal!!

[olivojoe]

Originally Posted by stanlalee

and is cheaper to produce

WRONG!

Here is one of MANY good read you can find on the subject. And between the crop subsidies and taxes, it is definitely not a cheaper alternative. You have to look at the big picture, not just price tags at the pump....

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2011/05/13/c...the-real-cost/


"1.5 gallons of ethanol are needed to replace one gallon of gasoline on an equivalent energy basis"

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

ethanol reduces your fuel economy. it's not like they're going to pass on the "savings" (if there is any at today's oil prices) onto the consumers. that means you pay the same amount for less energy content. Ethanol sucks unless it's E85 for a turbo car.

E85 helps just as much on an NA car too... advance the timing and voila, an extra 15% of power or so.

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

it increases effective octane because it has cooling properties (but only at high concentrations, like 85% - E10/E15 doesn't do shit). so you can run more boost, basically, without increasing heat (to a point).

To compensate for the loss of energy, you have to use a lot more of it and run richer. that's why E85 is usually accompanied by fuel system upgrades.

No. The reason you can get more power out of E85 is because it doesn't spontaneously combust until about 365*C whereas 93 octane will combust around 280*C. This means you can compress it more without it knocking (pv=nrt). So, you can increase the compression ratio, advance the timing, or run more boost on a turbo/supercharged engine. The downside is there's about a lot less energy in E85 so you'll need about 30% more to make the same power.

[ferocity02]

My regular 91 octane comes out of the pump with 8-10% ethanol... not sure what the big deal is about 15% ethanol.

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

My regular 91 octane comes out of the pump with 8-10% ethanol... not sure what the big deal is about 15% ethanol.

Just put a few gallons of e85 in and forget about all this blabbering

[jt335i]

Thank goodness I can still get non-ethanol gasoline in my area.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

My regular 91 octane comes out of the pump with 8-10% ethanol... not sure what the big deal is about 15% ethanol.

Because the owner's manual in most (if not all?) BMWs instruct you not to use more than 10% Ethanol in your car - that's why. My 128i with an N52 clearly states this in the manual.

For cars that are even older than those made in the last twenty years it can cause all sorts of problems.

[BMW_drei]

FWIW,
about using Ethanol in our cars.

E15 has about 2% less energy than E10, or less than about 0.5mpg lower.
Each year, I would end up spending about $50 more (16k miles, $3/gal)
Personally, I spend more than that driving harder every so often through the year. Plus I can run higher boost with extra Ethanol.

The rest is just politics.