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      06-12-2015, 09:49 PM   #1
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Any chance of a M2 Gran Coupe?

Thinking of ordering a BMW Individual M3. I'd love to snag a BMW Individual M2 Gran Coupe instead.
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      06-12-2015, 11:52 PM   #2
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Amen to that
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      06-13-2015, 04:53 AM   #3
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curious -- why?

What would you see as the differences in the two, and why would the M2GC that you envision be better?

All I can think of is smaller than an M3 , but with two more doors than the M2.

Is this all because people want into a fourdoor M at a cheaper price point?
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      06-13-2015, 05:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
curious -- why?

What would you see as the differences in the two, and why would the M2GC that you envision be better?

All I can think of is smaller than an M3 , but with two more doors than the M2.

Is this all because people want into a fourdoor M at a cheaper price point?
For some people bigger is not equal better, and smaller does not mean cheaper. See smartphone market, the is no premium <4 inch smartphone.
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      06-13-2015, 06:11 AM   #5
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I would gladly pay the same price for an M2GC as the F80 M3 if they both came with the same S55 if that it what is takes for BMW to actually give us something smaller than an E23 7-series sized "M3".

As Levi just stated, at this point in the massive size bloating of the latest generation BMWs, the demand for a reasonably sized sedan is there. Just look at the sales of the new Audi A3/S3 in its first year, and the A4 sales do not appear to have been affected as they were up yoy also.

Oh well, the USA market is "financialized" by BMWNA into marketing segments as opposed to customers who rarely buy cars anymore but instead lease them for 2 years. You, USA customer, require a large car, sunroof, automatic transmission, boring-bland colors, and 50+ M badges splattered all around your car. You don't care if the car weighs 3100lb or 3800lb. This is the BMWNA of 2015.
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      06-13-2015, 06:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
curious -- why?

What would you see as the differences in the two, and why would the M2GC that you envision be better?

All I can think of is smaller than an M3 , but with two more doors than the M2.

Is this all because people want into a fourdoor M at a cheaper price point?
The same reason I'd want a M4 Gran Coupe. I would like the styling better in a M2 GC or M4 GC as opposed to the M3. I'd especially prefer the M2 GC if it were lighter, easier to throw around, more precise, etc. I really don't mind the cost of the M3, I'd just like the weight savings with four doors. My criteria for my next car are:

1. Preferably a new BMW. Otherwise, a CPO BMW M5, Porsche Panamera Turbo or E63 AMG S may do the trick. I know I've been up too late when I start considering the Charger Hellcat.
2. Must have four doors.
3. Must be faster and better in virtually every way when compared to my '14 M235i.
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      06-13-2015, 06:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by challer View Post
Thinking of ordering a BMW Individual M3. I'd love to snag a BMW Individual M2 Gran Coupe instead.
Either way, you aren't going to get an Individual 2er anything. That's a well known fact
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      06-13-2015, 06:27 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
I would gladly pay the same price for an M2GC as the F80 M3 if they both came with the same S55 if that it what is takes for BMW to actually give us something smaller than an E23 7-series sized "M3".

As Levi just stated, at this point in the massive size bloating of the latest generation BMWs, the demand for a reasonably sized sedan is there. Just look at the sales of the new Audi A3/S3 in its first year, and the A4 sales do not appear to have been affected as they were up yoy also.

Oh well, the USA market is "financialized" by BMWNA into marketing segments as opposed to customers who rarely buy cars anymore but instead lease them for 2 years. You, USA customer, require a large car, sunroof, automatic transmission, boring-bland colors, and 50+ M badges splattered all around your car. You don't care if the car weighs 3100lb or 3800lb. This is the BMWNA of 2015.
I'm in the same boat. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that I'm a bit put off at the M2 not having a proper M engine. It's a M235i engine with a tune, a stock LSD, quad exhaust and some styling. Which is precisely why I can't justify upgrading from a M235i.
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      06-13-2015, 06:28 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Either way, you aren't going to get an Individual 2er anything. That's a well known fact

Source? I was under the impression that, while the BMW Individual Program did not extend to 2-series cars, the M2 is the exception.
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      06-13-2015, 06:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by challer View Post
Source? I was under the impression that, while the BMW Individual Program did not extend to 2-series cars, the M2 is the exception.
It's all over the 2er subforum if you look. That plant doesn't have the capability to mass produce Individual program.

If Individual is an absolute must for you, the F80 will be the one to go for. I am hoping for an M2 GC but don't see that happening until maybe the next gen
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      06-13-2015, 06:33 AM   #11
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It's all over the 2er subforum if you look. That plant doesn't have the capability to mass produce Individual program.

If Individual is an absolute must for you, the F80 will be the one to go for. I am hoping for an M2 GC but don't see that happening until maybe the next gen
Oh, wow. In that case, no deal. If I can't get an F80 in the color I want, I'm probably going to start shopping for CPO M5's.
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      06-13-2015, 08:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
.......Is this all because people want into a fourdoor M at a cheaper price point?
You got a problem with that?

For me personally, I cannot afford a new F8x M3 or even or even a used one but an M2 GC could come in budget.

But, as pointed out, that isn't everyone's driving force.

I preferred the nimble handling of my 1M over an e9x M3 and as pointed out by others, I too prefer the smaller footprint of the "cheaper" car.

I'd love there to be an F2x Gran Coupe.
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      06-13-2015, 08:53 AM   #13
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BMW has way to models and variations of their models....They are spreading themselves to thin. Could you guys imagine what BMWs (even ///M division) could do to their core cars if they focused all their resources into those...

I agree that BMW needs to innovate but why the HELL do we have a GT variant of every model..3/4/5/6 and now the 2...Way to many models and is way to redundant, then add the ///M variant to them....Its getting crazy if you ask me!
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      06-13-2015, 09:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as7920 View Post
You got a problem with that?

For me personally, I cannot afford a new F8x M3 or even or even a used one but an M2 GC could come in budget.

But, as pointed out, that isn't everyone's driving force.

I preferred the nimble handling of my 1M over an e9x M3 and as pointed out by others, I too prefer the smaller footprint of the "cheaper" car.

I'd love there to be an F2x Gran Coupe.
If there is one thing that is common on almost all car forum posts, its people defending their own purchase decisions as the best possible choice. And they probably are, for them, but not for everyone. I wanted to understand why we would campaign BMW for yet another model instead of focusing on perfecting the ones they have, when there exists a variant close to this spec already.

My 'problem' that people are rare to admit the reasons for their decisions -- cost being a huge one. Instead people seem to claim it is performance the guides their purchase decision, as if they are all these auto purists that could buy a Maclaren, but know the heart and soul of a car is really to be found in an E30.

Every one of these forums is filled with 135 drivers saying their car is just as good as a 1M, 228 and M235s are just as good as the M2 will be, same on the 3-series, the guy who he can win a drag race with his modded 550xi against an M5, etc. Everyone trying to justify their purchase, and yet get a little more closer to the next car up the latter in respect to performance (and luxury -- which sells cars, despite everyone here claiming to eschew those heavy, high end features). It is very, very rare that someone goes down the latter in M cars if we remove the financial consideration.

I bought an M5 because I couldn't swing a 991TTS or GT3; but I will freely admit it. I am considering an M2, but am worried less about the size being small enough, and more about the performance not being high enough. The difference between the M235 and the F80 M3 is 7" in length and 5" in width -- is there really room in there for another model?

I had a BMW about the size of the M235. I loved it, I miss it, but I don't think they can make a 4-door M this size:
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      06-13-2015, 09:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
If there is one thing that is common on almost all car forum posts, its people defending their own purchase decisions as the best possible choice. And they probably are, for them, but not for everyone. I wanted to understand why we would campaign BMW for yet another model instead of focusing on perfecting the ones they have, when there exists a variant close to this spec already.

My 'problem' that people are rare to admit the reasons for their decisions -- cost being a huge one. Instead people seem to claim it is performance the guides their purchase decision, as if they are all these auto purists that could buy a Maclaren, but know the heart and soul of a car is really to be found in an E30.

Every one of these forums is filled with 135 drivers saying their car is just as good as a 1M, 228 and M235s are just as good as the M2 will be, same on the 3-series, the guy who he can win a drag race with his modded 550xi against an M5, etc. Everyone trying to justify their purchase, and yet get a little more closer to the next car up the latter in respect to performance (and luxury -- which sells cars, despite everyone here claiming to eschew those heavy, high end features). It is very, very rare that someone goes down the latter in M cars if we remove the financial consideration.

I bought an M5 because I couldn't swing a 991TTS or GT3; but I will freely admit it. I am considering an M2, but am worried less about the size being small enough, and more about the performance not being high enough. The difference between the M235 and the F80 M3 is 7" in length and 5" in width -- is there really room in there for another model?

I had a BMW about the size of the M235. I loved it, I miss it, but I don't think they can make a 4-door M this size:
You make some good points, but if we're being honest, the M2 isn't going to offer a whole lot more than the M235i for the money. LSD, quad exhuast and a tune with different styling. That's about it.
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      06-13-2015, 10:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
If there is one thing that is common on almost all car forum posts, its people defending their own purchase decisions as the best possible choice. And they probably are, for them, but not for everyone. I wanted to understand why we would campaign BMW for yet another model instead of focusing on perfecting the ones they have, when there exists a variant close to this spec already.

My 'problem' that people are rare to admit the reasons for their decisions -- cost being a huge one. Instead people seem to claim it is performance the guides their purchase decision, as if they are all these auto purists that could buy a Maclaren, but know the heart and soul of a car is really to be found in an E30.

Every one of these forums is filled with 135 drivers saying their car is just as good as a 1M, 228 and M235s are just as good as the M2 will be, same on the 3-series, the guy who he can win a drag race with his modded 550xi against an M5, etc. Everyone trying to justify their purchase, and yet get a little more closer to the next car up the latter in respect to performance (and luxury -- which sells cars, despite everyone here claiming to eschew those heavy, high end features). It is very, very rare that someone goes down the latter in M cars if we remove the financial consideration.

I bought an M5 because I couldn't swing a 991TTS or GT3; but I will freely admit it. I am considering an M2, but am worried less about the size being small enough, and more about the performance not being high enough. The difference between the M235 and the F80 M3 is 7" in length and 5" in width -- is there really room in there for another model?

I had a BMW about the size of the M235. I loved it, I miss it, but I don't think they can make a 4-door M this size:
You think so? I disagree:


If there is a model they should make, this is it. Not more GT cars IMHO.

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Originally Posted by challer View Post
You make some good points, but if we're being honest, the M2 isn't going to offer a whole lot more than the M235i for the money. LSD, quad exhuast and a tune with different styling. That's about it.
For the millionth time, that's a giant misconception. I'm a big fan of both the M235i and the M3, but if you've driven both, it's VERY clear that there is a gap between the two. This has also been beaten to death on this forum.
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      06-13-2015, 11:11 AM   #17
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It's interesting to see some on the forums (not necessarily anyone in this thread though) with strong beliefs that wealth equates to "what series BMW" people own. While there is some correlation to wealth/income of course, at the same time BMW's own research shows that the number one BMW owned by the top 5% is the 3-series.

What is really present of course is simply biases being shown as opposed to actual facts about the marketplace.
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      06-13-2015, 11:21 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
It's interesting to see some on the forums (not necessarily anyone in this thread though) with strong beliefs that wealth equates to "what series BMW" people own. While there is some correlation to wealth/income of course, at the same time BMW's own research shows that the number one BMW owned by the top 5% is the 3-series.

What is really present of course is simply biases being shown as opposed to actual facts about the marketplace.
Eh, I make well into six figures, but I also just turned 28. So I may have a foot in the door as far as the M235i's target demographic goes. It's also my first BMW.

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      06-13-2015, 12:36 PM   #19
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I'm in the same boat. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that I'm a bit put off at the M2 not having a proper M engine. It's a M235i engine with a tune, a stock LSD, quad exhaust and some styling. Which is precisely why I can't justify upgrading from a M235i.
Stock LSD? The M2 has the M3/M4's suspension and LSD.
This has been confirmed a long time ago.
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      06-13-2015, 12:39 PM   #20
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Stock LSD? The M2 has the M3/M4's suspension and LSD.
This has been confirmed a long time ago.
Suspension, too, then. Which does make a difference. Just not enough to justify rolling into one.
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      06-13-2015, 12:47 PM   #21
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Suspension, too, then. Which does make a difference. Just not enough to justify rolling into one.
Here's the thing - I have a 235. One of the first ones on the board - I have had it since March 3 of 2014 - so roughly 16 months.

I have been considering an F80 for quite a while now because the 235 just doesn't do it for me. Main problem? Floaty suspension, vague braking feel, and overall squishy-ness. It is definitely an improvement in many ways over my 2 135s (looks, interior quality), but not so much in terms of how the car feels.

The F80, on the other hand, is on a different planet. The engine, which we won't see in the M2, is much more responsive and raw. The car feels 10 X's more planted - we are getting the chassis/suspension technology on the M2. And the brakes are MUCH better - which we are also getting.

So the car is basically a badass F80 from the belt line down...Add to that an LSD, quad exhaust, bigger wheels and tires (also a weak point of the 235), and the fender flares and what do you have? You have a VERY different car than the one that I am currently driving. Even without the S engine.

As far as the original question goes, there are others here that are of the same mind as me (///W comes to mind) - we would love to see a 1M estate or M2GC because we want to have all the fun of an M car...and our dogs can come too.
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      06-13-2015, 12:49 PM   #22
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Suspension, too, then. Which does make a difference. Just not enough to justify rolling into one.
It's the same formula that made the 1M a cult classic. An S engine would be nice. Especially a turbo 4, but developing one, may tie up too much money for BMW's liking, and taking the existing S55 and detuning it, seems to have been thrown out the window as well. Possible reasoning is that it might be too unconfortably close to the M4's performance.

The consolation prize is that there will be a hardcore version of the M2. Scott26 had said that he'd seen one that resembles the BMW Vision GT---but with smaller wheel flares and wing. This will probably be really limited.
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