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      07-06-2015, 09:35 AM   #1
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Getting excited about M2 but also dread

As we get closer to the reveal, I am getting more and more excited about M2 but also dread. I really like what the M2 represents...the smallest, hopefully lightest ///M car made today. In its day the E30 M3 was the smallest and lightest. The M5 was bigger and a you can draw parallels to the the new bigger M3 and the up-and-coming M2. Unlike many on this forum that can afford 2,3,4 expensive cars I can afford 1 nice car and a beater so the nice car has to push the right buttons. So I was recently with a couple of buddies at Denny's after Cars and Coffee discussing our dream cars and great cars we saw there. We talked cars for two hours and never once did anyone say, "yeah remember the Acme Diablura Espeziale with fake sound through the speakers?" Or, "man! That infotainment thingamadoodle with the tv display on top of the dash look great!." No one said "did you see STI....the dude retrofitted active suspension with a comfort setting....badass!"

Nope none of that happened. I know it's what's coming and you can't un-check the option list but it's a weird feeling having the excitement mixed with dread of what lameness BMW could bring to the M2. The way things are going, dread the next thing will be touch-pad shifter with vibrating Ps3 steering wheel or customizable sound....make your M2 sound like a flat plane crank V8 or sound like a Tesla. Anyway, excited but wish I could shake off some of the dread.

Last edited by nachob; 07-06-2015 at 10:00 AM..
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      07-06-2015, 09:44 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
As we get closer to the reveal, I am getting more and more excited about M2 but also dread. I really like what the M2 represents...the smallest, hopefully lightest ///M car made today. In its day the E30 M3 was the smallest and lightest. The M5 was bigger and a you can draw parallels to the the new bigger M3 and the up-and-coming M2. Unlike many on this forum that can afford 2,3,4 expensive cars I can afford 1 nice car and a beater so the nice car has to push the right buttons. So I was recently with a couple of buddies at Denny's after Cars and Coffee discussing our dream cars and great cars we saw there. We talked cars for two hours and never once did anyone say, "yeah remember the Acme Diablura Espeziale with fake sound through the speakers?" Or, "man! That infotainment thingamadoodle with the tv display on top of the dash look great!." No one said "did you see STI....the dude retrofitted active suspension with a comfort setting....badass!"

Nope none of that happened. I know it's what's coming and you can't un-check the option list but it's a weird feeling having the excitement mixed with dread of what lameness BMW could bring to the M2.
I think you are way overreacting about all those things. Neither of those things are what makes a car great or bad.

Think about what's more important: BMW doing what they do best (i.e small, nimble cars) or the fact that it has those options? If those things bother you that much, then I would probably stick to the 1M personally.

I'm far more concerned about how the car will drive, which an iDrive screen and "fake" sound will not really affect. When the car comes out, most people will be talking about its traits, not the fluff. My 2 cents.
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      07-06-2015, 10:03 AM   #3
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The fake sound can be deactivated and the exhaust opened up. The other fluff comes care of what the average Joe wants, not what hardcore enthusiasts want.

I, like you, can only afford 1 nice car. I don't dread what standard features are coming with the car, but rather, the price tag all these standard features elevate this car to. Don't sweat the small stuff, worry about the test drive once the car arrives in it's truest form.
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      07-06-2015, 10:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
As we get closer to the reveal, I am getting more and more excited about M2 but also dread. I really like what the M2 represents...the smallest, hopefully lightest ///M car made today. In its day the E30 M3 was the smallest and lightest. The M5 was bigger and a you can draw parallels to the the new bigger M3 and the up-and-coming M2. Unlike many on this forum that can afford 2,3,4 expensive cars I can afford 1 nice car and a beater so the nice car has to push the right buttons. So I was recently with a couple of buddies at Denny's after Cars and Coffee discussing our dream cars and great cars we saw there. We talked cars for two hours and never once did anyone say, "yeah remember the Acme Diablura Espeziale with fake sound through the speakers?" Or, "man! That infotainment thingamadoodle with the tv display on top of the dash look great!." No one said "did you see STI....the dude retrofitted active suspension with a comfort setting....badass!"

Nope none of that happened. I know it's what's coming and you can't un-check the option list but it's a weird feeling having the excitement mixed with dread of what lameness BMW could bring to the M2. The way things are going, dread the next thing will be touch-pad shifter with vibrating Ps3 steering wheel or customizable sound....make your M2 sound like a flat plane crank V8 or sound like a Tesla. Anyway, excited but wish I could shake off some of the dread.
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      07-06-2015, 10:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
As we get closer to the reveal, I am getting more and more excited about M2 but also dread. I really like what the M2 represents...the smallest, hopefully lightest ///M car made today. In its day the E30 M3 was the smallest and lightest. The M5 was bigger and a you can draw parallels to the the new bigger M3 and the up-and-coming M2. Unlike many on this forum that can afford 2,3,4 expensive cars I can afford 1 nice car and a beater so the nice car has to push the right buttons. So I was recently with a couple of buddies at Denny's after Cars and Coffee discussing our dream cars and great cars we saw there. We talked cars for two hours and never once did anyone say, "yeah remember the Acme Diablura Espeziale with fake sound through the speakers?" Or, "man! That infotainment thingamadoodle with the tv display on top of the dash look great!." No one said "did you see STI....the dude retrofitted active suspension with a comfort setting....badass!"

Nope none of that happened. I know it's what's coming and you can't un-check the option list but it's a weird feeling having the excitement mixed with dread of what lameness BMW could bring to the M2. The way things are going, dread the next thing will be touch-pad shifter with vibrating Ps3 steering wheel or customizable sound....make your M2 sound like a flat plane crank V8 or sound like a Tesla. Anyway, excited but wish I could shake off some of the dread.
The guy has a point though! Lots of "fluff" going on nowadays. Some things can be fixed, others can't!
For example, how can one improve or replace the EPS?
So yes, in some ways BMW sold out and don't you blame government regulations for all of it!
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      07-06-2015, 10:39 AM   #6
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If BMW could make the M2 "sound like a Tesla" that would be a hell of a trick!
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      07-06-2015, 04:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine F31 View Post
If BMW could make the M2 "sound like a Tesla" that would be a hell of a trick!
Partially related:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
And what I am hearing it seems that there is a motion to use the CSL badge for more progressive and innovative M models and to make CSL models the test bed for exclusive performance and progressive innovation and that includes eDrive assisted drivetrains.
In a way it has come full circle on how Motorsport innovation was showcased with the original CSL.
The next variant of Power eDrive has not been shown but it is the "entry" if you want to call it that with about 460 PS which will launch in the next generation 5er and then be included in models from the 5er upwards.
The first BMW M eDrive car is not as far away as you may think.
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      07-06-2015, 07:51 PM   #8
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GT3 RS has, no manual, a button to stiffen and soften the shocks, a nav screen, but it's still the ultimate drivers car.
A car can have those things and still be a beast of a car.

I also think theres a huge overreaction to active sound.
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      07-06-2015, 11:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSM View Post
GT3 RS has, no manual, a button to stiffen and soften the shocks, a nav screen, but it's still the ultimate drivers car.
A car can have those things and still be a beast of a car.
I've never driven a GT3RS, but I did ride in one for 8 laps at AAA California Speedway. It was by far, the fastest, quickest, best braking car I've ever been in. As impressive as the acceleration was, the grip (which I could feel from the passenger seat because I was glued to the side bolsters though the turns) was unbelievable. The braking felt like we pulled a parachute and deployed an air brake! It was crazy. But to stay on topic, the PDK was magical. It ripped off perfect upshifts and perfect downshifts, all without ANY input from the driver. He never touched the console mounted shifter, nor did he use the steering wheel mounted paddles. As I watched him drive and marveled at the performance of the car, I couldn't help but think that he was being "robbed" of some of the experience. I kept thinking how awesome it would be if HE were shifting the car the way the computer was. Yes, I understand the computer does it better. I witnessed it first hand, it was amazing. But it couldn't be more fun than trying in out for yourself. When I got out of the car I thought to myself, "I'm getting a GT3 asap, but It's going to be a 997 with a 6MT. Yes the 991 is "better" in every way, except in ultimate fun.
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      07-07-2015, 08:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine F31 View Post
I've never driven a GT3RS, but I did ride in one for 8 laps at AAA California Speedway. It was by far, the fastest, quickest, best braking car I've ever been in. As impressive as the acceleration was, the grip (which I could feel from the passenger seat because I was glued to the side bolsters though the turns) was unbelievable. The braking felt like we pulled a parachute and deployed an air brake! It was crazy. But to stay on topic, the PDK was magical. It ripped off perfect upshifts and perfect downshifts, all without ANY input from the driver. He never touched the console mounted shifter, nor did he use the steering wheel mounted paddles. As I watched him drive and marveled at the performance of the car, I couldn't help but think that he was being "robbed" of some of the experience. I kept thinking how awesome it would be if HE were shifting the car the way the computer was. Yes, I understand the computer does it better. I witnessed it first hand, it was amazing. But it couldn't be more fun than trying in out for yourself. When I got out of the car I thought to myself, "I'm getting a GT3 asap, but It's going to be a 997 with a 6MT. Yes the 991 is "better" in every way, except in ultimate fun.
Not to mention that was at the track. IMHO, these dual clutches are amazing at the track and during very spirited driving. I don't know about you guys, but my cars spend 95% of their time just putt putting around town. In those situations, I find DCT about as fun as AT, which isn't much (again my personal opinion). Thus why it's 6MT or bust for me.

I also plan on keeping my M's for a very long time, so maintenance wise, 6MT makes much more sense.

P.S. I do 100% respect DCT though. It really does transform the car.
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      07-07-2015, 09:21 AM   #11
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Just shrink the M4 and you'll get the M2 lol
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      07-07-2015, 12:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post

For example, how can one improve or replace the EPS?
Seriously? this is a challenge? Are you kidding? Go to the dealer for a Firmware update... !! .

One of the few mods for the E30 M3 steering is to go to a quicker ratio rack like the E36 M3 rack or the Z3 steering rack.
These days on a F8x you can change Steering racks by hooking the car up to a computer. No need to pay for a rack... spend hours under the car eliminating your warranty, or removing AIRBAG features to install a rack.. and no need to even spill any power steering fluid..
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      07-07-2015, 01:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post

For example, how can one improve or replace the EPS?
Seriously? this is a challenge? Are you kidding? Go to the dealer for a Firmware update... !! .

One of the few mods for the E30 M3 steering is to go to a quicker ratio rack like the E36 M3 rack or the Z3 steering rack.
These days on a F8x you can change Steering racks by hooking the car up to a computer. No need to pay for a rack... spend hours under the car eliminating your warranty, or removing AIRBAG features to install a rack.. and no need to even spill any power steering fluid..
If you claim that a firmware update fixes a fundamental loss of road feel introduced by the EPS system, right back at ya

I've said it before and I'll say it again, having driven the M235 and M4, the new EPS is lifeless. Precise? Yes! But not even remotely close to the hydraulic steering rack!
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      07-07-2015, 05:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post

For example, how can one improve or replace the EPS?
Seriously? this is a challenge? Are you kidding? Go to the dealer for a Firmware update... !! .

One of the few mods for the E30 M3 steering is to go to a quicker ratio rack like the E36 M3 rack or the Z3 steering rack.
These days on a F8x you can change Steering racks by hooking the car up to a computer. No need to pay for a rack... spend hours under the car eliminating your warranty, or removing AIRBAG features to install a rack.. and no need to even spill any power steering fluid..
If you claim that a firmware update fixes a fundamental loss of road feel introduced by the EPS system, right back at ya

I've said it before and I'll say it again, having driven the M235 and M4, the new EPS is lifeless. Precise? Yes! But not even remotely close to the hydraulic steering rack!
BMW should have gone Electro-Hydraulic. Removes the drive belt from the equation and still gives you the same great feel of a Hydraulic rack.
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      07-07-2015, 06:57 PM   #15
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Tech in cars does matter.

It takes resources that would have otherwise been spent on developing the dynamics of the chassis, the power source, and driving ergonomics into copying what your cell phone already does.

It's also becoming a significant part of what you pay to buy and maintain the vehicle.
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      07-07-2015, 10:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post

Nope none of that happened. I know it's what's coming and you can't un-check the option list but it's a weird feeling having the excitement mixed with dread of what lameness BMW could bring to the M2. The way things are going, dread the next thing will be touch-pad shifter with vibrating Ps3 steering wheel or customizable sound....make your M2 sound like a flat plane crank V8 or sound like a Tesla. Anyway, excited but wish I could shake off some of the dread.
I get it, going through it now; although more $$$ related. Seems like it would be a better choice to grab a classic that has depreciated and maintain a beater. A lot of great choices out there now, and if the M2 doesn't click all the boxes...
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      07-08-2015, 10:26 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by abp689 View Post
I get it, going through it now; although more $$$ related. Seems like it would be a better choice to grab a classic that has depreciated and maintain a beater. A lot of great choices out there now, and if the M2 doesn't click all the boxes...
Funny, I have a ZHP now and love wagons. Maybe the ZHP crowd likes certain things?
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      07-08-2015, 05:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Funny, I have a ZHP now and love wagons. Maybe the ZHP crowd likes certain things?
Quite possibly; several years ago, i was in the dealership and fell in love with a used 1M (but they were asking $65k).

I am hoping the 2 lives up to some of our expectations.
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      07-08-2015, 05:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abp689
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Funny, I have a ZHP now and love wagons. Maybe the ZHP crowd likes certain things?
Quite possibly; several years ago, i was in the dealership and fell in love with a used 1M (but they were asking $65k).

I am hoping the 2 lives up to some of our expectations.
I know some things will be better in m2. I will guess it will have more linear throttle response which I like but when I bought my 1M. I loved everything except leather seats. With M2, I already don't like display/idrive and faux engine sound which are bigger dislikes than leather. Well see. I hope they don't do it like M235 where the only choice is vinyl or leather.
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      07-08-2015, 07:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I know some things will be better in m2. I will guess it will have more linear throttle response which I like but when I bought my 1M. I loved everything except leather seats. With M2, I already don't like display/idrive and faux engine sound which are bigger dislikes than leather. Well see. I hope they don't do it like M235 where the only choice is vinyl or leather.
Add that to the things you don't like. Black leather only
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      07-08-2015, 08:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I know some things will be better in m2. I will guess it will have more linear throttle response which I like but when I bought my 1M. I loved everything except leather seats. With M2, I already don't like display/idrive and faux engine sound which are bigger dislikes than leather. Well see. I hope they don't do it like M235 where the only choice is vinyl or leather.
Add that to the things you don't like. Black leather only
It's pretty ridiculous that BMW expects us to swing on M2's sausage and pay $60k while getting limited options and performances (i.e. black leather only). You keep saying that the manufacturing process is inflexible but for the amount of dough we are expected to pay, the options list and price range should be pretty extrnsive!
This car has its work cut out for itself.
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      07-09-2015, 02:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine F31 View Post
I've never driven a GT3RS, but I did ride in one for 8 laps at AAA California Speedway. It was by far, the fastest, quickest, best braking car I've ever been in. As impressive as the acceleration was, the grip (which I could feel from the passenger seat because I was glued to the side bolsters though the turns) was unbelievable. The braking felt like we pulled a parachute and deployed an air brake! It was crazy. But to stay on topic, the PDK was magical. It ripped off perfect upshifts and perfect downshifts, all without ANY input from the driver. He never touched the console mounted shifter, nor did he use the steering wheel mounted paddles. As I watched him drive and marveled at the performance of the car, I couldn't help but think that he was being "robbed" of some of the experience. I kept thinking how awesome it would be if HE were shifting the car the way the computer was. Yes, I understand the computer does it better. I witnessed it first hand, it was amazing. But it couldn't be more fun than trying in out for yourself. When I got out of the car I thought to myself, "I'm getting a GT3 asap, but It's going to be a 997 with a 6MT. Yes the 991 is "better" in every way, except in ultimate fun.
I drive a 2008 911/997, crazy fun at Mosport. I have been a passenger in 2 different Porsche Turbos....when the driver is good (he was a professional Porsche Cup driver in his younger days), it is an amazing ride. The late breaking capability on a street car is surprising. He has PDK and says he never uses it because the computer is way faster/better.
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