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      07-11-2015, 02:31 PM   #1
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"M2 will be a car limited to only the people that can truly appreciate it"

Interesting theory.

However, IMHO the theory that enthusiasts get the M2, even if its price cuts (deep) into the M3/M4 zone when 'customized', might rather work for a Cayman GT4 than for an M2 base version. M2 CSL might be a different story, though.

Also, the choice - at least for the first year M2 base version - of only four body colors and zero choice for the interior color, is a tad difficult to comply with the assumption that "BMW should, and probably will, allow as much customization to the M2 as possible, thus allowing customers to have their exact M2, value be damned."

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BMW M2 doesn’t have to be a mini-M4
July 8th, 2015 by Nico DeMattia


Good things come in small packages. The old adage can easily be applied to BMW as a company. Many of the best BMWs are often the ones with the least amount of space between the axles. Small Bimmers have often been some of the most fun and engaging cars on the road to drive, even if they weren’t always the best of value. This is why the upcoming BMW M2 is probably the most highly anticipated BMW since the F80 M3. The M2 is looked at as the second coming of the transcendent 1 Series M. Which is exactly what it may become, but as such, won’t appeal to the masses.
The 1 Series M was a car that many people wanted but didn’t get, due to low production numbers and the idea that the E92 M3 was much better value. There are several people who liked the idea of the 1 Series M, but couldn’t come to terms with buying it because of the fact that it had less horsepower and was slower than the M3 but cost only marginally less. So those people ended up in M3s. The very same thing may happen with the M2, as it’s likely to be a worse value, on paper, than the M3 or M4. But there are a few folks, special and lucky folks, who will disregard the value proposition of the two cars and just buy the M2 because it offers the exact driving experience they desire and nothing more.
See, not everyone needs a fully loaded car, with Full Merino leather and Adaptive everything or Parking Assists. Some people just want a small and nimble performance car that can put a grin on their face like no other car can. And these people are willing to pay a price premium for such an experience, even if it means losing out on a few options that come standard on cars costing just a bit more. Many of these fun-loving enthusiasts might even be willing to add these extra options to the M2, inflating the price beyond what an M3 or M4 would cost, just because they want that precise car.
For instance, a customer might want an Individual M2 so badly that they spend significantly more on it than an M3 would have cost. On paper, they’d be getting the worse deal because the M2 is the inferior car to the M3 by the numbers; it’s smaller, has less power and probably won’t be as fast. But to those M2 lovers, none of that matters, because the M2 will be the superior driving car in their eyes, making them grin like no other, and you can’t put a price tag on that. But BMW is hoping for that, BMW wants there to be only a few people crazy, and brilliant, enough to want to buy such an M2.
Like the 1 Series M, the M2 will be made in low production numbers, the rumor is around 10,000 units for the entire lifecycle. It won’t be to anywhere near as limited as the 1 Series M, but will be far less produced than the M3 and M4. This will allow BMW to sell out of M2s while the rest of the wanting customers get into M3s and M4s. BMW doesn’t want overproduction of a car that most people deem to be poor value, much like what happened to the Z4M Coupe many moons ago. So BMW should, and probably will, allow as much customization to the M2 as possible, thus allowing customers to have their exact M2, value be damned.
So the M2, much like the 1 Series M before it, will be a car limited to only the people that can truly appreciate it. It will be a car for people who value fun and driving enjoyment above all else and couldn’t care less how much it costs. The M2 will be of very specific taste, one that’s only had by the truest of car enthusiasts. There’s a quote that goes “Life’s too short to drink cheap wine”. I agree with this and like to alter it a bit by saying “Life’s too short to drive boring cars”. So I applaud those few lucky enthusiasts to have the taste and courage to buy the M2, however they like, price and value be damned.
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      07-11-2015, 03:27 PM   #2
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Small and fun to drive cars are found outside of BMW. This is an arrogant position as if a niche is needed for M2 to fill. The niche has always been there. Bizarre but whatever works to maximize profit in the short term will be the point.

Take maximum drive in something like a Lotus Seven. Then talk about purity in the driving experience. I will test the M2. It will have no shortage of competition for my funds. I have no allegiance to any 1 marque.
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      07-11-2015, 03:55 PM   #3
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Im getting more and more excited about the car as more pics are released of it.

Im 90% on the car now. I'm between this or an F80 M3. Yes the M3 is going to be a good bit more but I think it will depreciate much more. If the M2 is going to be limited, it will likely hold its value much more. I would be stretching a bit for the M3 (optioned how I want it is around 77k) while I expect the M2 to come in around 60-65 the way I want it. No Im not remotely interested in a stripper M3. Its my daily driver and while I will take the car to the track 1-2 times a year, I dont want to not have features.

I expect the M2 to be a blast to drive and I think it will look very very good. Seeing the pics in the other thread of just how much wider it is over the 235 is very exciting, gives it such presence.
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      07-11-2015, 04:11 PM   #4
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I don't know if 10,000 limited production will end up limited sales tho. Can anyone provide me with any of M series production and sales number recent years? If I can see that number then I can kinda gauge what that 10,000 means.
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      07-11-2015, 04:15 PM   #5
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I have an f80 M3 currently but will be keeping an eye on the M2 as my possible next car
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      07-11-2015, 06:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juyeop View Post
Can anyone provide me with any of M series production and sales number recent years? If I can see that number then I can kinda gauge what that 10,000 means.
I don't agree with your estimation method; nevertheless, if it helps, how about: 60,000 E9x M3's world wide over, what, 6 years. 08-13.
Note: the goal was 100k. I think those numbers are right. Here to get into the details http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863761
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      07-11-2015, 07:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
I don't agree with your estimation method; nevertheless, if it helps, how about: 60,000 E9x M3's world wide over, what, 6 years. 08-13.
Note: the goal was 100k. I think those numbers are right. Here to get into the details http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863761
What I was thinking tho. If 10,000 M2 produced over the course of its life cycle sparsely and demand (#of sales) keeps up with supply number at any point in time then it would lead to limited sales. Therefore, we will see hike in retail price from dealership with huge markup. But then again, I looked over the stats given by you. It is about 10,000 M3 produced every year. Given the assumption that those model sold quickly, It sounds like 10,000 M2 over the course of its life cycle might lead to dealer-favorable retail price or even above MSRP. I know that 10,000 number is still a rumor, but I'm just saying.

Is there any flaws in my assumption? I know economics major can flat out correct me for sure but....
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      07-11-2015, 07:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
I don't agree with your estimation method; nevertheless, if it helps, how about: 60,000 E9x M3's world wide over, what, 6 years. 08-13.
Note: the goal was 100k. I think those numbers are right. Here to get into the details http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863761
Also, let's say only 10,000 M3 was produced and we didn't see the trend of huge markup due to high demand then we can kinda apply that number to 10,000 M2 which will produce same result. I'm just throwing these nonsense out there
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      07-11-2015, 07:42 PM   #9
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So 10,000 units worldwide within 3 years? Wasn't there 6000 1M's per one year worldwide? Would that mean for the US we will almost have twice as many M2 but over a longer span?
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      07-11-2015, 07:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
So 10,000 units worldwide within 3 years? Wasn't there 6000 1M's per one year worldwide? Would that mean for the US we will almost have twice as many M2 but over a longer span?
I didn't know only 6,000 1M was produced and we saw all that markup on those inventories? Then, 10,000 M2 over its entire lifecycle sounds pretty bad to me if that is true
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      07-11-2015, 07:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juyeop View Post
I didn't know only 6,000 1M was produced and we saw all that markup on those inventories? Then, 10,000 M2 over its entire lifecycle sounds pretty bad to me if that is true
We only got 740 1m stateside? I would like to know is that 10,000 rumor here or worldwide? Even at 740 cars for two years is still pretty rare for a M car.
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      07-11-2015, 08:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
We only got 740 1m stateside? I would like to know is that 10,000 rumor here or worldwide? Even at 740 cars for two years is still pretty rare for a M car.
wish it is 10,000 M2 allocated only to the states for real.

but reality is that 10,000 is likely to be worldwide production number based on the article I think. Rumor is rumor tho right??
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      07-11-2015, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juyeop View Post
I don't know if 10,000 limited production will end up limited sales tho. Can anyone provide me with any of M series production and sales number recent years? If I can see that number then I can kinda gauge what that 10,000 means.
Production data of some BMW E-series models (oldskool):Some BMW F-series models (nuskool) (no figures):
  • F06/12/13 M6
  • F10 M5
  • F10/11 M550d
  • F15 X5 M50d
  • F16 X6 M50d
  • F20/21 M135i
  • F80 M3
  • F82/83 M4
  • F85 X5 M
  • F86 X6 M
  • F87 M2 (soon)
Name:  Batmobile.jpg
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Size:  30.4 KB
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      07-11-2015, 08:49 PM   #14
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"For instance, a customer might want an Individual M2 so badly that they spend significantly more on it than an M3 would have cost."

That M2 customer might eventually want 'Individual', but won't get it. The M2 will be produced at the Leipzig factory, which doesn't offer 'Individual' as we speak. Hence, if the customer wants 'Individual', he should get another car.
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      07-11-2015, 08:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Production data of some BMW E-series models (oldskool):Some BMW F-series models (nuskool) (no figures):
  • F06/12/13 M6
  • F10 M5
  • F10/11 M550d
  • F15 X5 M50d
  • F16 X6 M50d
  • F20/21 M135i
  • F80 M3
  • F82/83 M4
  • F85 X5 M
  • F86 X6 M
  • F87 M2 (soon)
Attachment 1242969
thanks for the info man. I can figure out how limited 10,000 means actually just by looking at 1M production number
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      07-11-2015, 08:56 PM   #16
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I like it. Limited number of options, focus on performance. Perfect. Heck, I'd love it if the M2 was offered with MT only as with the M models of yore (and the 1M of course), but I know that won't happen.

At this point I'll only get an F80 if you have to play BS games to obtain an M2...I'm not good with that (which is why I didn't get a 1M).
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      07-11-2015, 09:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTR View Post
Small and fun to drive cars are found outside of BMW. This is an arrogant position as if a niche is needed for M2 to fill. The niche has always been there. Bizarre but whatever works to maximize profit in the short term will be the point.

Take maximum drive in something like a Lotus Seven. Then talk about purity in the driving experience. I will test the M2. It will have no shortage of competition for my funds. I have no allegiance to any 1 marque.
I don't know the author but he might be American. Here in the states there is not as much choice as in Europe. You guys get a lot more choice in customizing too. you get cloth/alcantara interiors and many other models that don't make it here. Even the ones that do are watered down or softened. For example the M235i is not offered with M-sport cloth/alcantara interior and only offered with dynamic suspension, folding mirrors, etc. You guys can get a lighter stripper version with cloth seats. Also, a lot of the "competitors" to the M2 are front wheel drive or all wheel drive. Audi for example has the S4, but here in the US it is only automatic with sunroof. In Europe you can get a manual and possibly no sunroof? In 2015, the Golf R only came in automatic and fully loaded. We won't get a manual until next year.

So I am not disagreeing with you, just stating that here in the states, we get less choice and there really isn't much in the range.

Just a thought.
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      07-11-2015, 09:40 PM   #18
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Seeing as though I currently have an m235i, I'm obviously a potential candidate for an M2 (if I can get my hands on one by 1Q 17), but it would be foolish of me to write off the m3, the potential for an RS3 sedan or a pre owned boxster GTS until we know more about the M2's pricing, and overall performance.

I don't think this car is going to be a disappointment, but if it's priced north of 60k, it's playing in a game with much bigger boys and will need to deliver as such.
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      07-11-2015, 10:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
I like it. Limited number of options, focus on performance. Perfect. Heck, I'd love it if the M2 was offered with MT only as with the M models of yore (and the 1M of course), but I know that won't happen.

At this point I'll only get an F80 if you have to play BS games to obtain an M2...I'm not good with that (which is why I didn't get a 1M).
Agreed on both counts. That really would weed out a lot of people.

Having saidthat, the F80 as plan B is nota bad choice
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      07-12-2015, 12:38 AM   #20
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"On paper, they’d be getting the worse deal because the M2 is the inferior car to the M3 by the numbers; it’s smaller, has less power and probably won’t be as fast. But to those M2 lovers, none of that matters, because the M2 will be the superior driving car in their eyes, making them grin like no other, and you can’t put a price tag on that. But BMW is hoping for that, BMW wants there to be only a few people crazy, and brilliant, enough to want to buy such an M2."

IDK... I am pretty sure I can put a price on it (reference the multiple pricing threads).

I am eagerly anticipating this launch and it is shaping up to be a solid 4 seater; but agree with Artemis. If the premium starts to bulge, screw it. I'll stretch into a stripper Cayman / [S] or used 997.2.

All things being equal: (Cayman > M2)..or..(Cayman = M2 + Solid Discount).
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      07-12-2015, 07:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
I like it. Limited number of options, focus on performance. Perfect. Heck, I'd love it if the M2 was offered with MT only as with the M models of yore (and the 1M of course), but I know that won't happen.

At this point I'll only get an F80 if you have to play BS games to obtain an M2...I'm not good with that (which is why I didn't get a 1M).
I agree that I'm not interested in paying anything over MSRP.

However, it seems that some are only interested in the M2 if they are someday available for invoice + $500. I don't think it's reasonable to ever expect the supply of the M2 to outstrip demand.

If near invoice pricing is a requirement, one should look at the M3/4.
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      07-12-2015, 07:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Agreed on both counts. That really would weed out a lot of people.

Having saidthat, the F80 as plan B is nota bad choice
The F80 is a better choice, I don't know what people are expecting in here, but it's not going to be better than an F80, as for weeding out people I doubt you will need to, I've yet to see a single M235i here, I've only seen three 2 series in total, all three were diesel! lol, seems to me people in this forum as talking the M2 up way too much, anyone that would spend more on an M2 than an M3 just to be individual either has too much money and doesn’t care about the car, or they need their head examining, and what is it with people and manual’s? If you want a manual buy one, but stop going on like everyone that likes drives must have one or they aren’t an enthusiast
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