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      07-21-2015, 12:00 PM   #1
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How close am I to cording these PSS?

Hey guys, I'm pretty sure my PSS are done and will cord if I use them for another DE but wanted to get a second opinion

Here's a pic of the driver's side front. There side grooves on the shoulder are worn down, and the nearest rain groove is 4/32". I've put on 2 dry DE, 1 wet DE and 5300 total miles

Seems like the car's insufficient front negative camber got me, since the middle and inner edge of the tire is ~6/32"

Would you take these out for another DE, or would you replace the set (what I'm leaning towards)

Thanks!
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      07-21-2015, 12:21 PM   #2
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The cords on these tires seem to be exposed pretty easily so I wouldn't do another track event with them. Get them replaced and get an alignment done if possible!
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      07-21-2015, 01:04 PM   #3
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      07-21-2015, 01:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr006rbc View Post
The cords on these tires seem to be exposed pretty easily so I wouldn't do another track event with them. Get them replaced and get an alignment done if possible!
I think we've confirmed the front camber on F8X is not adjustable, right?

The specs that I've seen others post show -1.4 degrees camber all around, and some have posted getting to -2 degrees camber rear, and that a good setting for toe is 1/16 total toe out for front, 3/8 total toe in for rear

Do you have a performance alignment for the stock suspension that you prefer?
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      07-21-2015, 02:07 PM   #5
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Agreed with above- that's not enough rubber to use for another high performance day. In southern California, you could likely drive on them on the street for quite a while, but that also depends on your comfort level.

A full coilover with camber plates is one solution to get more front camber, or simply an aftermarket camber plate that goes over the OE spring and damper, if you're more interested in keeping the OE BMW damper for now.

JRZ, KW, and Ohlins all offer solutions with a camber plate.

Ground Control's new universal camber plate is being launched next week, as well. We'll be making a post on that soon.
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      07-21-2015, 02:10 PM   #6
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IMO they don't have many more sessions in them before they show some cord. I corded mine in one 3 day event last year.

However, those tires are still plenty good for the street, so it would be a shame thrashing them.
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      07-21-2015, 02:15 PM   #7
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If I were to get the ground control camber plate first to use with the OE damper, would those pretty much be a "throw away" part, right, since the full coilovers come with integrated camber plates?

I don't currently have a set of dedicated track wheels, but maybe should get some and keep these as street tires/wheels......
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      07-21-2015, 02:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
Ground Control's new universal camber plate is being launched next week, as well. We'll be making a post on that soon.
I have been impatiently waiting for their release.

I cancelled my order for the TCK, I didn't like the fact that they are only adjustable by step increments.

I had good experiences with the GC on my E46 and E92.
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      07-21-2015, 02:52 PM   #9
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You may be able to get another day out of those. Hard to say as it depends on your driving style, experience, track, etc.

How does the tire on the other side look? You may be able to swap sides.

What event are you planning on attending next and what direction will you be driving?
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      07-21-2015, 04:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chili cheese View Post
You may be able to get another day out of those. Hard to say as it depends on your driving style, experience, track, etc.

How does the tire on the other side look? You may be able to swap sides.

What event are you planning on attending next and what direction will you be driving?
Other side is similar in the front, rears are worn down too but a bit more evenly.

I drive to and front the track so if I cord them that is going to be a big issue getting home. I thought I'd more than 3 DEs out of them but I guess that's the norm for how long PSS with stock suspension last.

Next event (either big willow or buttonwillow) is also CW. I've tried a few SoCal clubs and currently am planning to go with Extrespeed and just follow along their calendar. They seem to have the lowest cost/minute of track time and track wasn't packed when I went to their 6/28 event.
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      07-21-2015, 07:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Other side is similar in the front, rears are worn down too but a bit more evenly.

I drive to and front the track so if I cord them that is going to be a big issue getting home. I thought I'd more than 3 DEs out of them but I guess that's the norm for how long PSS with stock suspension last.

Next event (either big willow or buttonwillow) is also CW. I've tried a few SoCal clubs and currently am planning to go with Extrespeed and just follow along their calendar. They seem to have the lowest cost/minute of track time and track wasn't packed when I went to their 6/28 event.
Well, if the fronts are both the same and you are going to a track that far away in this summer heat, perhaps replacing both fronts is a good idea.

You nailed it. Without more front camber, you are going to chew up tires on that outside edge, no matter the make/model.
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      07-22-2015, 10:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I have been impatiently waiting for their release.

I cancelled my order for the TCK, I didn't like the fact that they are only adjustable by step increments.

I had good experiences with the GC on my E46 and E92.


Absolutely. GC has been consistent in creating good product for many years, and I expect nothing less for the F8x chassis. The nice thing about these camber plates is that they can be converted in the future to work with a coilover, like say a KW V3 or JRZ that was purchased with no camber plate.
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      07-22-2015, 12:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chili cheese View Post
You nailed it. Without more front camber, you are going to chew up tires on that outside edge, no matter the make/model.
So, I guess the question now is whether I should stick with the OE suspension and add camber plates (what I'm leaning towards), or move to full coilvers with integrated camber plates

Thoughts?
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      07-22-2015, 02:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
So, I guess the question now is whether I should stick with the OE suspension and add camber plates (what I'm leaning towards), or move to full coilvers with integrated camber plates

Thoughts?
The stock suspension is quite capable. My main reason for getting an M4 is its ability to serve as a dual purpose car (DD and track), the stock EDC suspension suits that bill very well. Dial it to Sport+ at the track (or Sport for abumpy track) and Comfort for the DD. In my case, I will stick with the stock suspension and just add the GC camber plates. My car is also winter driven, hence I don't want it too low anyway.

Note that the PSS are worse than most tires in terms of outer shoulder wear. The outer section of the tread uses a softer compound (similar to the PSC) than the rest of the tread. While this might help in terms of cornering grip, it sucks in terms of wear when the tires are pushed hard.

I am actually quite surprised how my NT01 wear decently evenly with the stock front camber, its nothing like the uneven wear I would get on my E92 or E46. Usually stickier tires need more camber. I don't think I will need to add a lot of front camber for the NT01s once I get my GC camber plates.

The PSS seem to like tons of negative camber due to that softer outer compound.
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      07-22-2015, 03:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The stock suspension is quite capable. My main reason for getting an M4 is its ability to serve as a dual purpose car

In my case, I will stick with the stock suspension and just add the GC camber plates. My car is also winter driven, hence I don't want it too low anyway.
.
Agreed, I'm on the GC camber plate wait list too (thanks Cat and Ilia) and will try that out with the stock suspension and different tires (BFG Rival S in 275/35/18 is the current front runner for what I'll purchase on that front)
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      07-22-2015, 03:25 PM   #16
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I know the feeling. #Racecar
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      07-22-2015, 03:42 PM   #17
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I thought it was #needsmorefrontcamber
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      07-22-2015, 08:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
So, I guess the question now is whether I should stick with the OE suspension and add camber plates (what I'm leaning towards), or move to full coilvers with integrated camber plates

Thoughts?
Well, I don't have the M4 yet (coming soon), but with all the cost for labor to install just camber plates, you may as well just install KW Clubsport or similar. That's what I've done on my E92 and for now that's my plan for the future M4.
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      07-22-2015, 08:52 PM   #19
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I'd say you're good for one more DE day, but keep an eye on them because they go fast at this point. I corded my left front after 5 DE days. My 2nd set of fronts look like yours now and I'd go out on mine - carefully.

When they get like this, replace
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      07-22-2015, 09:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chili cheese View Post
Well, I don't have the M4 yet (coming soon), but with all the cost for labor to install just camber plates, you may as well just install KW Clubsport or similar. That's what I've done on my E92 and for now that's my plan for the future M4.
Is the install cost that similar between front camber plates and full suspension swap?

I'd like to get more seat time in the stock car before modding. I've only had the car for 5 weeks and have only done 4 DEs in it so I'm still getting the hang of it

If the tires weren't going so quickly I wouldn't have considered camber plates

Apparently the BFG Rival S has a reputation for having a tough outer tread for "camber challenged" cars so I'll likely replace the PSS with those in the 275/35/18 size and maybe I can even defer the camber plate purchase.
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      07-26-2015, 11:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Is the install cost that similar between front camber plates and full suspension swap?

I'd like to get more seat time in the stock car before modding. I've only had the car for 5 weeks and have only done 4 DEs in it so I'm still getting the hang of it

If the tires weren't going so quickly I wouldn't have considered camber plates

Apparently the BFG Rival S has a reputation for having a tough outer tread for "camber challenged" cars so I'll likely replace the PSS with those in the 275/35/18 size and maybe I can even defer the camber plate purchase.
More seat time is always preferred before modding. I was just letting you know that just camber plates isn't a cheap install in my experience. You really have to look into something other than the PSS for track use. I've found PSS to only be good for wet events. They just give up too fast in the heat, get greasy then chunk. You could try a Nitto NT05, Advan AD08R or similar. I don't have any experience with with BFGs, so can't comment there.

Honestly, your best bet is to get a dedicated set of track wheels and tires and keep the PSS for the street only.
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      07-28-2015, 02:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by chili cheese View Post
Well, I don't have the M4 yet (coming soon), but with all the cost for labor to install just camber plates, you may as well just install KW Clubsport or similar. That's what I've done on my E92 and for now that's my plan for the future M4.
Is the install cost that similar between front camber plates and full suspension swap?

I'd like to get more seat time in the stock car before modding. I've only had the car for 5 weeks and have only done 4 DEs in it so I'm still getting the hang of it

If the tires weren't going so quickly I wouldn't have considered camber plates

Apparently the BFG Rival S has a reputation for having a tough outer tread for "camber challenged" cars so I'll likely replace the PSS with those in the 275/35/18 size and maybe I can even defer the camber plate purchase.
I ran the 1st gen Rivals on my E92 when they first came out two years ago. I loved them. Yes you are correct they have very large outboard tread blocks that seemed to hold up well. I ran them on the stock ZCP suspension with -1.5 degrees camber. Give them a try. They held up well and were consistent over the entire session and had a ton of grip.

I don't have experience with the Rival S but in speaking with the tire rack staff they said it was more of an auto x tire because it heats up faster but might not hold up over a full 20-25 min track session. Look at the regular rivals, not the rival S.
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