[rjc32000]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation here and elsewhere about how modding your shiny new Bimmer might impact warranty coverage.

I've seen many people invoke Magnuson-Moss and assert that it requires BMW to prove a mod caused damage before denying coverage. While that is a convenient interpretation if you are trying to sell mods, it is not neccesarily true.

All Magnuson-Moss provides is that in doing routine maintenance, the dealer cannot force you to use their BMW branded parts. It allows the consumer to use any part they like, provided it has the same specs as the original and doesn't alter how the car operates. (One exception is for parts and supplies that BMW provides for free during warranty coverage - think motor oil - so long as the dealer provides it for free during warranty coverage, you have to use the same to maintain coverage.)

Attorney Steve Lehto did a good write up on this a while back on Oppositelock (full article here) where he debunks many of the common misconceptions. In it, he writes:

The law says: "No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name . . ."

So, they can't dictate what brand of parts you put on your car during the warranty period. Mr. Goodwrench, Motorcraft and Mopar are optional. But simply swapping parts is not the area of greatest concern here. The real concern is vehicle modification.

Many modifications people do to their cars fall outside of the "article or service" contemplated by the statute. Suppose you loved the way Vin Diesel could pull wheelies in 13th gear in his Charger and figured a little of that "NOS" would do the same for your car. Even if your little four-banger won't pull wheelies in any gear, it now puts out a few more horses than before. So, if you find the transmission spitting out teeth like it's been punched in the mouth by Mike Tyson, you can bet the manufacturer might blame the problem on the increased power being fed to the trans.

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act requires manufacturers to honor their warranties and auto manufacturers only warrant their vehicles against manufacturing defects. Your claim here could be denied because the failure was not due to a defect in a factory component. It was caused by something added to the car: the nitrous oxide injection system which was not part of your car to begin with. That system caused a non-defective part to fail. Your mod did not void the warranty. It's just that the failure was not caused by a factory defect.

Other popular modifications might likewise be problematic. Companies sell aftermarket modifications for Electronic Control Units which range from new programming to high performance replacement units. The net result is that the engine is now being controlled by a program unlike the one your car shipped with. Manufacturers know these mods exist and these will also run afoul of warranty coverage. Many Owner's Manuals specifically state that warranty coverage does not extend to changes to the vehicle's "configuration" and this limitation is not forbidden by the Magnuson Moss section cited above. The manufacturer is not requiring you to use a particular brand of item or service, they just don't want you using one that is altered to different settings than those configured at the factory. Or, put it this way: If your ECU went bad and needed replacement, you could replace it with one of any brand you liked, so long as it controlled the engine the same as the original.

Expect your warranty claim on your drivetrain to be scrutinized if you come in with a hopped up ECU. These claims are routinely denied so long as the failure appears to be related somehow to the new - altered - performance parameters of the ECU. And this is perfectly legal according to the Federal Trade Commission which is the government entity charged with creating rules to implement the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

Many modifications people do to their cars fall outside of the "article or service" contemplated by the statute. Suppose you loved the way Vin Diesel could pull wheelies in 13th gear in his Charger and figured a little of that "NOS" would do the same for your car. Even if your little four-banger won't pull wheelies in any gear, it now puts out a few more horses than before. So, if you find the transmission spitting out teeth like it's been punched in the mouth by Mike Tyson, you can bet the manufacturer might blame the problem on the increased power being fed to the trans.

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act requires manufacturers to honor their warranties and auto manufacturers only warrant their vehicles against manufacturing defects. Your claim here could be denied because the failure was not due to a defect in a factory component. It was caused by something added to the car: the nitrous oxide injection system which was not part of your car to begin with. That system caused a non-defective part to fail. Your mod did not void the warranty. It's just that the failure was not caused by a factory defect.

Other popular modifications might likewise be problematic. Companies sell aftermarket modifications for Electronic Control Units which range from new programming to high performance replacement units. The net result is that the engine is now being controlled by a program unlike the one your car shipped with. Manufacturers know these mods exist and these will also run afoul of warranty coverage. Many Owner's Manuals specifically state that warranty coverage does not extend to changes to the vehicle's "configuration" and this limitation is not forbidden by the Magnuson Moss section cited above. The manufacturer is not requiring you to use a particular brand of item or service, they just don't want you using one that is altered to different settings than those configured at the factory. Or, put it this way: If your ECU went bad and needed replacement, you could replace it with one of any brand you liked, so long as it controlled the engine the same as the original.

Expect your warranty claim on your drivetrain to be scrutinized if you come in with a hopped up ECU. These claims are routinely denied so long as the failure appears to be related somehow to the new - altered - performance parameters of the ECU. And this is perfectly legal according to the Federal Trade Commission which is the government entity charged with creating rules to implement the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

I've had people tell me that the seller of the performance parts assured them that the new parts would not affect their warranty coverage. To that, all I can tell you is that they are not the one who has the final say on that; it's the manufacturer. Perhaps you should show them where your Owner's Manual addresses aftermarket racing parts and configuration changes to the vehicle. Ask how their product does not fit in those categories.

Also, there is a lot of confusion about the FTC's "Consumer Alert" on aftermarket parts which is referenced above. To be clear, the FTC explicitly said: "the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage." Once they have done that, they are all set. And the FTC's ruling did not sanction alterations, modifications or racing and high performance parts. The ruling addressed "Auto Warranties & Routine Maintenance." That is why it was called, "Auto Warranties & Routine Maintenance." It was not called "Warranty Coverage Guaranteed for Your Chipped Nitrous-Breathing Ride."

So, you can use any type of part or service you want during the warranty period so long as it does not alter or reconfigure the car from its factory specs. In the cases which do, you might run into problems getting warranty coverage for failures associated with those parts or modifications, especially if the parts are designed for racing or high performance.

I hope people find this information helpful in deciding whether or not to mod their warrantied car.

[Buckeyes]

Do you even realize that you're "that guy"?

[Labeef]

I'm so tired of these threads. Short answer "Maybe." If you come in with mods for service, I don't see why they would even blink at them. If you come into service with some serious issue with suspension, and you recently installed coilovers, yes they will most likely not honor any repairs. However, I have seen BMW go out of their way to fix modded cars even if the mods created the problem.

[Golden Arrow]

Thanks for posting this, OP. I took flak a few months ago for asserting that Magnuson-Moss is not the super-duper warranty protector of modded cars, and this is exactly what I tried to explain. If the non-OEM parts or work done causes a problem, the OEM doesn't have to warranty the affected system(s) if they can prove the aftermarket part is to blame.

[Golden Arrow]

Originally Posted by Labeef

I'm so tired of these threads. Short answer "Maybe." If you come in with mods for service, I don't see why they would even blink at them. If you come into service with some serious issue with suspension, and you recently installed coilovers, yes they will most likely not honor any repairs. However, I have seen BMW go out of their way to fix modded cars even if the mods created the problem.

Your dealership is much nicer than mine. My dealer is very picky about working with/around non-BMW parts.

[G30 B58]

OP, have you sold your BMW and BMW shares yet?

99% of the BMWs I see are all stock. No mods, no warranties voided. I think your concerns have been covered here.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Labeef

I'm so tired of these threads. Short answer "Maybe." If you come in with mods for service, I don't see why they would even blink at them. If you come into service with some serious issue with suspension, and you recently installed coilovers, yes they will most likely not honor any repairs. However, I have seen BMW go out of their way to fix modded cars even if the mods created the problem.

Rarely do we ever hear someone bringing in a car to a dealer for suspension issues when they have a modified suspension.

It's powertrain issues that are far more common. Powertrain issues are also much harder for the DIY'er to diagnose/fix.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Rarely do we ever hear someone bringing in a car to a dealer for suspension issues when they have a modified suspension.

It's powertrain issues that are far more common. Powertrain issues are also much harder for the DIY'er to diagnose/fix.

So true. Suspension parts likely get a pass for sure, but when you flash the car that remaps response time, or over cooks the turbo, etc, these actions can cause strain on parts and systems.

Don't know why this is so hard to understand.

BMW does give us OEM mod options and partner companies like Dinan. The obvious mods are the M Performance parts, or full bore ///M.

Guess I don't understand the mod culture because I can't buy a new car then spend even more to dump money into an already fast depreciating item.

[Livfast335]

Ohhh again? Can we just lock this useless thread up.

I think the OP would do a good job at making dramatic tobacco packaging warning messages. Or maybe that's what he does for a living!

[the_phew]

OK OP, let's do a little thought experiment:

Your stated objection to modding is that you presume that the practice substantially increases the likelihood of component failure, impacting BMW profitability (thus your returns as a shareholder) and increasing prices for everyone. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, let's assume you are actually correct, and installing an exhaust, mild tune, new springs, etc actually DOES substantially increase the likelihood of component failure during the warranty period.

Since the operating lifetime of the average BMW is at least 3 times the warranty period, and components are more likely to fail as they age (modded or not), wouldn't it then also be true that modding increases the probability of component failure OUTSIDE of warranty by an even greater frequency? And a component failure outside of warranty makes MORE money for BMW, since they get to sell more parts.

So even if you are correct (you aren't) about modding substantially increasing the likelihood of component failure under the warranty period, it actually results in more profit for BMW.

So spare us your sanctimonious preaching.

[rjc32000]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Was this your alter ego?

That's me allright. But I'm not saying what you stated in your "thought experiment." I've no problems with modding. My objection, already well covered in another post (hint, hint), is with people who mod their engines contrary to the terms of their warranty and the provisions of Mag-Moss and then remove said mods to deceive BMW into providing warranty service.

But again, that's not what this thread is about (not that reading comprehension appears to be your strong suit). I'm sorry that you find my post about Magnuson-Moss so offensive, but your opprobrium is misplaced.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

But again, that's not what this thread is about (not that reading comprehension appears to be your strong suit). I'm sorry that you find my post about Magnuson-Moss so offensiv

Your personal insults will have this thread locked soon, but that'll be no loss because most folks in the community already understand Mag-Moss. The average car enthusiast knows that it translates to the following real-world implications (which are just common sense anyway):

-If you put an aftermarket exhaust on your car then the A/C blows up, your warranty coverage of the A/C repair is unaffected
-Your car's warranty doesn't cover aftermarket parts (that's why the parts themselves have warranties)
-If you nitrous/boost up your engine until it explodes, don't expect it to get it repaired under the car's warranty

You may have created this thread under the guise of magnanimity, but since you were just run out of the thread where the guy asked if he should remove his Stage 1 for routine maintenance (not an exploded engine, BTW), we all know what your motivations are. Creating a new thread doesn't absolve you of your misguided statements in that thread.

The facts are:
1. Most people already understand the implications of Mag-Moss
2. Modding in general actually MAKES money for BMW

[rjc32000]

Originally Posted by the_phew

The facts are:
1. Most people already understand the implications of Mag-Moss
2. Modding in general actually MAKES money for BMW

1. No they don't, as evidenced by the myriad posts on this forum that misstate what the law actually provides; and
2. No it doesn't, except in your misguided "thought experiment" which is based on several faulty premises--the most obvious being your unsupported and unsubstantiated claim that "modders" get their post-warranty service done exclusively at BMW when things break, rather than at their local independent mechanic (i.e., the people who probably installed the aftermarket parts in the first place).

Look, I've obviously really struck a nerve with you. So much so that you feel the need to follow me around to every thread to attack me and continue to debate topics raised in other threads. This thread was perfectly civil until you showed up, accused me of "sanctimonious preaching" and proceeded to thread-jack the OP. I'm really sorry I've hurt your feelings so badly.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

This thread was perfectly civil until you showed up, accused me of "sanctimonious preaching" and proceeded to thread-jack the OP. I'm really sorry I've hurt your feelings so badly.

The genesis of this entire debate stemmed from you saying that anyone that removes their Stage 1 tune before routine maintenance is out to "lie, cheat and steal" from BMW. The fact that you started a new thread to expound on your argument doesn't give you carte blanche.

As someone that does in fact remove his measly Stage 1 piggyback module before routine maintenance, of course I take offense to your accusation. I stated in that thread that I remove the module because it's my property, and I don't want to leave my property in the hands of the $9/hr oil change guy (I lease, so the car belongs to BMWNA). Especially since they have a big sign saying they aren't responsible for belongings left in the car; it's the same reason I don't leave my phone or wallet in the car during service. I've never lied to my SA or anyone else about having a tune (since it never comes up).

If the 320i wasn't easily/cheaply/safely tunable into (practically) a 328i, I would have bought a GTI instead. I've seen this sentiment expressed several times in various forums, so it's safe to say that BMW sales are at least incrementally higher because of the "tune-friendliness" of the 320i. Despite widespread popularity of the BMS Stage 1, I haven't seen anyone that's definitively exploded their N20 due to that tune, so it looks like BMW is coming out ahead financially too; win-win.

I'm not seeing this widespread misinterpretation of Mag-Moss that you claim to see; but maybe there is a "I incinerated my engine in a nitrous fireball and I expect BMW to repair it for free" subforum that I missed.

[Livfast335]

OP, please take your preaching somewhere else. Nobody here cares!

[rolltidef32]

This has gotten good!

[Vegetable]

This thread really makes me want to mod my car.. JB4 and ER catless DP ordered tomorrow