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      12-04-2015, 04:41 AM   #1
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Definition of Management and Leadership

Okay, as it's Friday and I have just been doing some junior management training.

I thought I would ask the same question I asked the previous 'collective'.

What do you believe defines a manager and a leader, obviously they can be one and the same, but it's rare to get a good manager and good leader in one.


My definition is:

Leadership:
"Inspiring people to achieve things that they didn't know they could do"


Management:

“Providing the resources to support those goals”


So have a think and see what you can come up with.

Also a sign of good management / leadership, can be knowing when to lead or when to manage..
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      12-04-2015, 05:00 AM   #2
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For me a leader is someone who sets the bar high and you will strive to over achieve it, a manager is someone who sets a target that you will strive to achieve.

Agree, it's a rare combination, i can think of one in thirty plus years of industry and one in sports.
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      12-04-2015, 05:23 AM   #3
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A leader takes credit for a manager's work, a manager takes credit for everyone else's.

Simple.

I've been leadership training this week - I'm all Myers Briggs'd out.

My new favourite name for everything is the Johari Window - named after its creators Jo and Harry. Talk about trying to posh something up.

Back to real work today playing catch up (hence my procrastination through random car forums)
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      12-04-2015, 05:29 AM   #4
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Myers Briggs, that would be an interesting thread 'Guess the forum members profile'.
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      12-04-2015, 06:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i nthehouse View Post
A leader takes credit for a manager's work, a manager takes credit for everyone else's.

Simple.

I've been leadership training this week - I'm all Myers Briggs'd out.

My new favourite name for everything is the Johari Window - named after its creators Jo and Harry. Talk about trying to posh something up.

Back to real work today playing catch up (hence my procrastination through random car forums)

So you are saying a leader is above a manger?

To me a leader can be anyone, it's the person on the spot.

A manager can have a resource that is an individual who is a great leader.
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      12-04-2015, 07:04 AM   #6
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SAF - leader
David Brent - manager

Both are legends.
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      12-04-2015, 07:05 AM   #7
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SAF - leader
David Brent - manager

Both are legends.
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      12-04-2015, 07:27 AM   #8
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I was being a bit stupid - not serious

But yes - Generally i would place a leader above a manager organisationally - but not to say one is more important than the other
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      12-04-2015, 07:30 AM   #9
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Here's my brief attempt:

A good leader drives and inspires others to; change, proactivity, thinking outside the box and going the extra mile in pursuit of pushing and exceeding goals.

A good manager supports and facilitates the above in others by applying those same principles to their own effective management and control of available resources.

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      12-04-2015, 08:44 AM   #10
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A leader takes you somewhere, makes you want to follow and achieve

A manager gets stuff done
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      12-04-2015, 11:39 AM   #11
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I was on a course in the dim and distant about such things and the metaphor was moving logs in a river from A to B. Not sure if I can 100% tell you how it went exactly, but it went something like:
  • A Leader (or Director in my session) was up the tree keeping an eye on B.
  • A Manager was on the riverbank keeping the staff together and giving them directions having been fed them by those up the tree
  • The Remainder (in the river) steer and do the actual log pushing based on what the Manager says.
A reasonable summary i thought, and in my job I tend to visualise it like this to keep a bit of clarity.

Although obviously with a degree of flexibility dependent upon the situation.

But a leader can be any of these 3 at any given time. (intentional use of small "l" in leader)
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      12-04-2015, 11:46 AM   #12
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Leaders inspire.

Managers instruct.
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      12-04-2015, 11:58 AM   #13
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Not quite the request but the below are about management and leadership.

like this quote:

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” - Theodore Roosevelt

And this one:

I’m not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues. Franklin D. Roosevelt

And this is the truest of them all if you work in a large company (the company I work for has just joined the FTSE100 this week):

Success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm - Churchill.

If there is one thing I've learnt in management , it is you have to put the right team together, you're not there to do the job but manage it and without a good team you're screwed.

And you cannot be seen to lose heart no matter what, hence the Churchill quote.
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      12-04-2015, 12:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Not quite the request but the below are about management and leadership.

like this quote:

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” - Theodore Roosevelt

And this one:

I’m not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues. Franklin D. Roosevelt

And this is the truest of them all if you work in a large company (the company I work for has just joined the FTSE100 this week):

Success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm - Churchill.

If there is one thing I've learnt in management is you have to put the right team together, you're not there to do the job but manage it and without a good team you're screwed.

And you cannot be seen to lose heart no matter what, hence the Churchill quote.
This is where a good manager is able to look at his team and identify the best leader, it may be him or it could be someone junior, this will obviously depend on the task.

Also knowing when to lead and when to manage is key, this often confuses situations and fucks ups tasks.
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      12-05-2015, 02:55 AM   #15
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A leader should look like this
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      12-05-2015, 03:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
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A leader should look like this
Explain?
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      12-05-2015, 08:11 AM   #17
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Brigand - thanks for posting the question and others for contributing. This is an area of focus at my work and we have a session on it on Friday. I will be "borrowing" all your comments. Very helpful guys!

Much appreciated!
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      12-05-2015, 08:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Brigand - thanks for posting the question and others for contributing. This is an area of focus at my work and we have a session on it on Friday. I will be "borrowing" all your comments. Very helpful guys!

Much appreciated!
I posted it as, I have recently introduced, mentoring, management and leadership stuff, as Civilians are really crap at it.

Key bits to get in as well are, Ownership and Responsibility.

Also Google SMEAC.

A very good briefing tool.

Another bit people overlook, a Manager is responsible for his people, he acts as an umbrella, protects them, mentors them, looks after their welfare.
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      12-05-2015, 08:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
I posted it as, I have recently introduced, mentoring, management and leadership stuff, as Civilians are really crap at it.

Key bits to get in as well are, Ownership and Responsibility.

Also Google SMEAC.

A very good briefing tool.

Another bit people overlook, a Manager is responsible for his people, he acts as an umbrella, protects them, mentors them, looks after their welfare.
Thanks. Have heard of SMEAC, unfortunately we are too used to FIDO (assuming you know this one!) and then need to tidy up afterwards!!!!
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      12-05-2015, 09:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Explain?
It's a leader rig....
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      12-05-2015, 10:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
It's a leader rig....
Ah yeah - funny.......

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      12-06-2015, 11:36 AM   #22
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Leaders do the right thing.....
Managers do things right.....

Well there supposed to.
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