[V8bait]

They make a difference it would seem. I can't link that forum and don't want to re-type it here, sorry. And I have no idea how to copy/paste. But I did some before/after tuning/dyno's on a FBO+Inlet car that got some MMP outlets and gained some power and dropped some WGDC. There was no tilting of the map sensor or glory runs, timing was very conservative for E85. Other details over there.

Shout out to Martial@MHD and Mauricio@MMP.

Feel free to discuss here.

Edit- had wrong run for baseline selected.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Looks like a lot of usable power in the mid-range.

[terryd5150]

Excellent post.

However, it looks like the runs with the upgraded hot side charge pipe take a dip from 3300rpm - 4400rpm.

Whatever it is, the engine wasn't doing it in the baseline run.

I suspect it may be tune-related.

Have you checked the logs? Was timing being pulled? Fuel/AFR inconsistencies?

Regardless, it looks like a fairly inexpensive way to gain 50 ft/lbs. while making life easier on the turbos (reduced WGDC).

[NA55]

What ethanol content and can you post data log? Thanks!

[V8bait]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

Excellent post.

However, it looks like the runs with the upgraded hot side charge pipe take a dip from 3300rpm - 4400rpm.

Whatever it is, the engine wasn't doing it in the baseline run.

I suspect it may be tune-related.

Have you checked the logs? Was timing being pulled? Fuel/AFR inconsistencies?

Regardless, it looks like a fairly inexpensive way to gain 50 ft/lbs. while making life easier on the turbos (reduced WGDC).

Yes it was in the tuning. Specifically i didn't tune for the outlets as stated in the other thread on the [Admin Notified]ing dark side. I ran the exact tune 2 days apart and the car shat itself on the wgdc base and airflow adder tables from the fbo+inlets tune, causing the PID to freak out from an initial boost spike and throttle closures galore. Tuned for the inlets the Delta will undoubtedly be higher, but that wasn't the point here. More power was made on lower boost and lower wgdc which means more airflow.

Originally Posted by NA55

What ethanol content and can you post data log? Thanks!

E50ish unverified with 93. Logs are on the other site.

[terryd5150]

I strolled over to the darkside and read your thread there.

All questions answered; the fact that this was done with a 335is was even more impressive.

Excellent results!

[MM Performance]

Great results! The logs and dyno are very telling. After the outlets you made more power everywhere, a lot more power down low around +59whp gain, significant more power in the top end +30whp gain and +12whp gain at max rpm. The logs show less WGDC and after outlets you made the extra power after outlets at 2psi less with a non-optimized tune that had throttle closures and potentially traction control on as you mentioned in the other thread. There is ALOT left on the table with these outlets and we are not even close to tapping their potential. I think they are as big game changers or bigger as inlets because of the huge gains we are seeing throughout the power band and also huge gains in torque with no tuning changes and a lot of running issues still to sort out in the post outlets log. Overall very happy with results but from what I see there is still a ton left on the table with these outlets. With outlets and inlets and max tune with proper fueling support, someone can easily smash the record I set for stock turbos at 500whp, only a matter of time now once these get out to the world and people push their limits on stockers I would but I'm running my upgraded turbos and loving the power

Thanks Justin and Aaron for testing these out!

[Jklad]

Just to clarify - are you saying that with fbo, inlets, and new outlets, but stock turbos, that this will require a lp fuel pump upgrade to tune effectively for 93oct? Or would stock pump suffice if e85 is not being used?

[MM Performance]

Originally Posted by Jklad

Just to clarify - are you saying that with fbo, inlets, and new outlets, but stock turbos, that this will require a lp fuel pump upgrade to tune effectively for 93oct? Or would stock pump suffice if e85 is not being used?

I was mainly talking about running straight e85.

With 93 prob ably not but i have no idea until someone tries that but with more airflow and power potential at some point you need better fueling to support the extra power.

Originally Posted by Jklad

Just to clarify - are you saying that with fbo, inlets, and new outlets, but stock turbos, that this will require a lp fuel pump upgrade to tune effectively for 93oct? Or would stock pump suffice if e85 is not being used?

Who would go to all that effort and not spend ~$100 on an upgraded fuel pump anyway?

[AaronZ34]

The car tested (Mine) had a Fuel-It Stage 2 pump running 60% E85 40% 93.

[sirdaft1]

Wow, this is incredible news. Nice work V8bait, MM Performance and MHD Tuning! Can't wait to see what the results are once tuned!

[V8bait]

Originally Posted by MM Performance

Great results! The logs and dyno are very telling. After the outlets you made more power everywhere, a lot more power down low around +59whp gain, significant more power in the top end +30whp gain and +12whp gain at max rpm. The logs show less WGDC and after outlets you made the extra power after outlets at 2psi less with a non-optimized tune that had throttle closures and potentially traction control on as you mentioned in the other thread. There is ALOT left on the table with these outlets and we are not even close to tapping their potential. I think they are as big game changers or bigger as inlets because of the huge gains we are seeing throughout the power band and also huge gains in torque with no tuning changes and a lot of running issues still to sort out in the post outlets log. Overall very happy with results but from what I see there is still a ton left on the table with these outlets. With outlets and inlets and max tune with proper fueling support, someone can easily smash the record I set for stock turbos at 500whp, only a matter of time now once these get out to the world and people push their limits on stockers I would but I'm running my upgraded turbos and loving the power

Thanks Justin and Aaron for testing these out!

Sadly it seemed like a waste of time to better dial them in when he was driving back to 6,000 feet the next day, which will likely take a little fine tuning anyway. The good news is that with the sea level logs and the forthcoming high altitude logs, I'll be able to get the boost control set as good as stock for him I hope. Not every day I get logs from different elevations on a car

I welcome a HP race on stock turbos, but on E50 I think the car may have needed meth to break your record, or race gas. I just don't know if the HPFP could fuel over 500whp with the E85 mix. But for the rest of us just looking for a fast daily setup, these opened it up even more up top. With an average of 55% WGDC at 6500 RPM and not much boost the car was still making nearly 430+whp, that's what's most impressive to me. I think FBO cars with inlets and outlets could easily have an impressive powerband with 500ft.lbs and 450hp available from 4600 to 6500 RPM and daily drive it. Not long ago that was RB territory.

[ferocity02]

Looks like a solid gain at lower RPM, but similar at higher RPM. This is the opposite of what I would expect.

[MM Performance]

Here are the boost overlays. The bottom curve is post outlets. Boost and rpm plotted and overlaid pre and post outlets from the user posted datazap logs. The lower boost curve is post outlets. You can see the boost is 1 psi less initially and 2psi less for the majority of the run. Even though running 2psi less boost made more gains everywhere, a lot more down low, good peak gain, and great gain in the top end and a lot more peak torque too, all with no tuning changes. If tune was optimized for outlets and boost setback where it was supposed to be as in the pre outlets run, gains would have been MUCH larger!

[V8bait]

Fixed the graph in the OP, had the wrong run selected. Only had one pre-outlet run datalogged and it is the run that is reflected.

[Riceball777]

Turbo hotside outlets is where the exhaust comes out. I think you mean turbo cold side outlet pipes or the hotside for the intercooler/charge pipe.

[MM Performance]

Originally Posted by V8bait

Fixed the graph in the OP, had the wrong run selected. Only had one pre-outlet run datalogged and it is the run that is reflected.

So based on the new updated pre Outlet dyno posted (wrong one was mistakenly posted previously by the user, it was one of the pre outlet runs but not the max one or the one that tied to the log) I need to revise the gains I stated.

Edited version:

Great results! The logs and dyno are very telling. After the outlets you made more power everywhere, a lot more power down low around +30whp gain, significant more power in the top end +25whp gain and +10whp gain at max rpm and also +34wtq max. The logs show less WGDC and after outlets you made the extra power after outlets at 2psi less (see boost overlay posted above, lower boost curve is post outlets) with a non-optimized tune that had throttle closures and potentially traction control on as you mentioned in the other thread. There is ALOT left on the table with these outlets and we are not even close to tapping their potential. I think they are as big game changers or bigger as inlets because of the huge gains we are seeing throughout the power band and also huge gains in torque with no tuning changes and a lot of running issues still to sort out in the post outlets log. Overall very happy with results but from what I see there is still a ton left on the table with these outlets. With outlets and inlets and max tune with proper fueling support, someone can easily smash the record I set for stock turbos at 500whp, only a matter of time now once these get out to the world and people push their limits on stockers I would but I'm running my upgraded turbos and loving the power

Thanks Justin and Aaron for testing these out!

[Jklad]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Who would go to all that effort and not spend ~$100 on an upgraded fuel pump anyway?

Wasn't aware you could upgrade lpfp for only $100...Steveaz stage 2 is $400 for the diy method, or $800 for the pre-assembled kit, and I wouldn't want to utilize a stage 1 inline-type setup.

I've never seen in the past where an upgraded lpfp was needed for a fbo stock turbo car running 93, trying to figure out if it's needed with inlets and outlets. As mmp said, Maybe we'll find out soon.

[MM Performance]

Originally Posted by Jklad

Wasn't aware you could upgrade lpfp for only $100...Steveaz stage 2 is $400 for the diy method, or $800 for the pre-assembled kit, and I wouldn't want to utilize a stage 1 inline-type setup.

I've never seen in the past where an upgraded lpfp was needed for a fbo stock turbo car running 93, trying to figure out if it's needed with inlets and outlets. As mmp said, Maybe we'll find out soon.

When I said "fueling support" I meant for e85 a LPFP. I doubt it's needed for 93 at all to support the extra power. Only needed for e85 is what I think.

[Torgus]

On 93 you should be fine if your hpfp and lpfp are healthy.

Even if the gain is small the fact stock turbos can produce 500/550 is just crazy on E85. This should only help things. Waiting to see the record broke.

I would prefer to see a full silicon solution but I am sure MMP is going to get a ton of sales for this product. Way to go!

[matthewo]

Originally Posted by Torgus

On 93 you should be fine if your hpfp and lpfp are healthy.

Even if the gain is small the fact stock turbos can produce 500/550 is just crazy on E85. This should only help things. Waiting to see the record broke.

I would prefer to see a full silicon solution but I am sure MMP is going to get a ton of sales for this product. Way to go!

I agree, as much as I do not agree with Tonys tactics I do like the full silicon hot side he is working on. Not sure how he going to address the turbo connections, I would assume he would use an adapter similar to the mmp. I know it's likely fine with t clamps but with a hard to get to location and the need to remove down pipes I would like a solution with as few pieces as possible.

I personally will hold out a bit longer until I see a nice full silicon solution come to pass

I think the coolest part would be if a inlet and hot side pipe 93oct car with hexon turbos could hit 550hp area on stock direct injection and no supliment fueling