[2er]

Hi Guys,

Looking for recommendations on a stage 1 tune. No plans for bolt ons for immediate future.

Prefer plug n play to flash.

Had a Procede on my 1er, which was a great tune, but a PITA to install, de-install.

Love to hear some good recommendations.

Have the BMS stage 1 on my short list for now.

Thanks

[Amack]

Im only a recent owner and whilst I dont have a tune yet from months of sifting through these forums I would go either a JB4 or a flash tune. Stuart from BMR has a few posts from a flash tune and there is countless threads on JB4s.

I myself will be going a JB4 just for removal for servicing and because there is a decent amount of knowledge on info flying around about them.

If you still are worried I see your in Syd, maybe go into BMR and have a chat to them. From what I hear there the best in the biz.

Good Luck

[2er]

Yep, I have known Stuart and Advan for years and had my 1er serviced there.

Agree with you on flash and removal, which is why I will also go a plug n play. My research had also led me to the JB4, but was interested in if anyone locally were running other solutions.

When will you be tuning yours ?

[den525]

Flash!!

I made the mistake going piggyback.

Piggybacks are too inconsistent, got a flash never going back!

Ps. It takes just as long removing a flash vs removing jb4

[omega145]

Who did you go to for the flash tune? I'm considering Enzo but haven't jumped on it yet since it's almost 3x the price of a JB4.

[Amack]

Originally Posted by den525

Flash!!

I made the mistake going piggyback.

Piggybacks are too inconsistent, got a flash never going back!

Ps. It takes just as long removing a flash vs removing jb4

If you remove the flash tho wont you have to pay to have it reflashed? Or you pay the price once then they just flash/reflash for a small fee?

I would dive head first into a flash if it was a cheap option once the original fee was paid.

[omega145]

Originally Posted by Amack

If you remove the flash tho wont you have to pay to have it reflashed? Or you pay the price once then they just flash/reflash for a small fee?

I would dive head first into a flash if it was a cheap option once the original fee was paid.

I've heard of Enzo redoing the flash on the ECU after a dealer wiped it free of charge.

[den525]

Originally Posted by Amack

If you remove the flash tho wont you have to pay to have it reflashed? Or you pay the price once then they just flash/reflash for a small fee?

I would dive head first into a flash if it was a cheap option once the original fee was paid.

It's a small fee. Different flash tuners will have a different process and fee. The tune I got from bmr once it's tuned, it can be removed and put back in via obd port? Have to askStuart@BMRAutowerkes plus cost to remove.

I opted to have a bigger discount on my car rather than have the free servicing done by BMW apprentices, so I don't really have to worry unless it's for warranty issues

[Amack]

If its a small fee like den said and after reading some of his and stuarts previous threads on BMRs flash maybe it is the best solution.

[terminator335i]

Pros and cons to both.

Flash: Cost more. (Approx $1700 to $2500 depending on who you take it to)
They need your car for the whole day.
They take out the Ecu from the engine bay and bench tune the factory settings with a new setting. The new setting will alter boost, air/fuel ratio, timing etc...
The new setting can be adjusted to include any extra bolt ons you may have ie: Intake, DP, fuel pumps, PI, meth, injectors etc...
If you have no other mods (car was completely stock) the flash tune will give approx:
M235i stock: 240kw engine power which is underated, 215rwkw puts down) and 450Nm to approx 290-300kw engine power, 260rwkw puts down and 530 Nm.
With bolt ons (let's say only intake and DP upgrade) you would get +300kw engine power and 270-280rwkw.
If you upgrade to a catless DP or a HFC DP, and worried about the car throwing a cel, the flash tune will remove the cel because it integrates that into the new setting of the ecu.
Car performs much more stable than piggybacks, with instant and constant power.

Downfall: "Some" flash tuning will not be detected by the BMW dealer but if your car goes into its schedule servicing and they do a software update (ie BMW release new software updates here and there) and they try to update your car, it "May" not work. This then may lead them to knowing that 'something has been done to the vehicle', for those who are worried about warranty issue. The solution is for you to take it back to the tuner, who will reflash it back to stock (prob via OBD port) so you can take it to the dealer for servicing.
If you are Sydney based, it would recommend BMR autowerkes or Advan performance.
I think Stu has recently posted a thread on dyno testing with flash vs piggyback.

Piggybacks: Cheaper. (Approx $500 - $800)
Plug and play, You can do it yourself and remove it anytime you want.
Stage 1 Basic piggybacks that are very easy to install that have only two plugs MAP sensor and TMAP sensor are JB1 and AFE scorcher module (+4PSI over stock boost) and Racechip (boost adjustable). Adds about 40hp-60hp (30-50kw) to the wheels (approx).
Stage 1.5 piggybacks have three sensors (TMAP, MAP, and Camshaft sensors) to offer boost settings adjusted according to RPMs (hence the extra sensor). Adds roughly the same extra power. These stage 1.5 piggy backs are Active8 tuning piggybacks, Turnermotorsport piggybacks and VR tuning piggybacks.
JB4 are also stage 1.5 piggybacks but are a bit of a bitch to install to some newbies. Much more plugs, sensors and tapping into wires. Can be done (brochure can be downloaded on the burgertuning website), but please disconnect the negative terminal battery in the boot before installing. Has 7 maps available. Map 1 is same as JB1. Map 2 needs a DP upgrade fore more power. Map 3-7 are custom maps and data logging.

While some of these piggybacks perform well with no issues (if installed properly), it may not be smooth or linear in the power delivery as a flash tune. JB4 have been reported to be like stock, but once pass 4000rpms it then kicks in.


Good fun DIY for a basic tune and you can pick a used one up for a few hundred bucks.

[2er]

^ great write up.

I have always used a PB. Flash sounds interesting, but might leave that until I am further along in my warranty. I like the idea if the BMS stage 1 and JB4 stage 1 with just two connections. Had a Procede on the 135 and that was a bitch to install.

So even with the M235's mppk you still think an extra 30kws possible from stage one PB ?

If that's the case, I'm sold

[terminator335i]

Originally Posted by 2er

^ great write up.

I have always used a PB. Flash sounds interesting, but might leave that until I am further along in my warranty. I like the idea if the BMS stage 1 and JB4 stage 1 with just two connections. Had a Procede on the 135 and that was a bitch to install.

So even with the M235's mppk you still think an extra 30kws possible from stage one PB ?

If that's the case, I'm sold

30kw yes.
Like I said, a piggyback will add around an extra +4psi over stock. But remember, its not the extra power but rather the Torque! Torque gives you the instant acceleration pull we all crave for.
Btw FYI, I used to have an e92 335i and had a piggyback before getting a flash tune. (I know the procede is a bitch to install on those n54 engines mate!!). Bmw tuning are certainly different to other turbos Ive owned over the years but you learn as you go.
Im onto my second Bimmer (F30) and doing BOLT ONs (PB tune, intake and full exhaust) + various cosmetic works and still working on it slowly. No issues so far. I might do a build thread one day.

[den525]

I agree with terminator335i review.

Flash is more expensive, but more gain and much more consistent. The power/torque curve is much more "stock like", while with the JB4 as you can see with his write up about the different maps... THAT is what I find to be the biggest misconception with JB4's "plug and play" system... Not really a system where you plug and forget.

If you know a lot about JB4, BMWs and N55 engines, I'm sure you can get the best out of JB4s... but if not? It's bloody hard... Even worst if you install it yourself... You can install it completely correctly, but without a dyno, and just relying on your butt dyno, it's hard to see which map is best for you, it's the same with adding bolt on parts.

(a bit off topic) i ordered manhart, installed by a professional, drove it out and the placebo effect is wow it's amazing, but after you put it on the dyno, didn't do anything!

That for me is the biggest negative for JB4s... There are so many different maps, you don't know which one is best for you... Just because on the forum someone in US or UK with the same set up works for a customer doesn't mean it will work for you here in Australia, due to climate, fuel etc.

Finally the biggest difference is FLASH is changing the maps completely to suit the car, while PIGGYBACK system is tricking the car to read something different at a certain point.

[2er]

Due to the hassle of de flashing, and the fact I have just bought this car, I will probably give the BMS stage 1 a run and see how it goes. Will report back on my findings.

Will definitely give the flash a go once I am past 2 years into the warranty

[mickey35i]

quiet happy with my Manhart piggyback

[2Banger]

Originally Posted by mickey35i

quiet happy with my Manhart piggyback

Haha did you hear about the other Aussie bloke with Manhart Tune?

He got F'd over basically... Shouldn't pay that much for a piggyback imo jb4 is where its at if anything imo.

Does manharts piggyback have as much functionality as jb4? Very curious to know (Clearing CEL if going Catless etc)

[mickey35i]

Originally Posted by 2Banger

Haha did you hear about the other Aussie bloke with Manhart Tune?

He got F'd over basically... Shouldn't pay that much for a piggyback imo jb4 is where its at if anything imo.

Does manharts piggyback have as much functionality as jb4? Very curious to know (Clearing CEL if going Catless etc)

nah mate what happened, curious to know???

does not have the same tenability, ie meth, bigger turbo etc as I enquired directly to Manhart. Its good for a plug and play if you don't plan on going further and I believe it can have custom maps set up

ill be fitting a dump pipe/exhaust in coming weeks so will find out with the CEL light

[mickey35i]

found the poor guy with the manhart all good.. stung hard!!

I have this one below, which is different I believe, Stage 2 ecu and it has a custom map installed which I am yet to use (need dump pipe). Will take it on a dyno after, would be interesting to see what t puts out compared to JB4, stock and flash tunes out there.. Dyno day with mixed cars would be good

http://www.manhart-performance.de/up...Website_02.jpg

[2er]

Guys, any local sellers of BMS tunes ? After a stage 1, not JB4 as I won't be going the bolt on route

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

Originally Posted by 2er

Guys, any local sellers of BMS tunes ? After a stage 1, not JB4 as I won't be going the bolt on route

Happy to get one in for you $530 + tax

[WasabiJim]

i know all this info is more or less out there if you want to go dig it out yourself but its always good to follow a local discussion on the topic

i was thinking of getting a PB on stock a m235 ( i did replace the sport exhaust with a Remus axle back) just for $500 worth of easy map 1 40-50 hp kicks. can just sell it on if it doesnt do it for you. but it sounds like flash tune is really the best way to go. its a $80k+ car give it the respect it deserves.

[Knightelf]

Originally Posted by 2Banger

Haha did you hear about the other Aussie bloke with Manhart Tune?

That was Den as well.

I have a JB4. It's a pain to install and can be fiddly with updating software etc. (which I admit is optional). Other than that I don't have any complaints and it works as it's meant to. Flash is the easier and more reliable route but you pay for it.