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      05-01-2016, 01:19 AM   #1
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Time to change spark plugs?

Hi All,

Need some advice.

2015 m235i auto with Enzo 400+ Package (ECU Flash + catless downpipe). 12,872 miles.

I have a rough idle for the past 1-2 days, sputters a little during idle. Acceleration not as sharp.

1. Is this most likely a plug issue?
2. Should I go with OEM or aftermarket plugs. If aftermarket, which?
3. How difficult to change the plugs myself?
3. If I take it to the dealer, how can I best prevent them from overwriting my flash?
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      05-01-2016, 10:34 AM   #2
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That's strange, usually the spark plug change interval for a tuned car is ~20k miles. At what mileage was your ECU flashed with the tune? Finally, when a car is tuned, the reason the stock spark plugs wear out faster is because the stock plugs are designed for the lower heat range, that the car is tuned for, from the factory. With the more aggressive tune, the heat range has now been increased, which burn the stock plugs much faster. You can change them out with the same, brand new OEM plugs, but you will continue to burn your plugs at the same rate, which could end up being a waste of money, and a hassle in the long run. On the other hand, you can get spark plugs with a higher heat range, which will give them a longer life over the stock plugs. I believe there are some tuned M235i's running M3/M4 spark plugs, which are capable of handling the higher heat range. There is also a member on this forum running NGK Iridium spark plugs, which also handle higher heat range. Also, I'm not sure, but since the M2 has a more aggressive tune, it could also utilize spark plugs with a higher heat range, that could be used on a tuned M235i.

EDIT: also, make sure the plugs are the issue first, because 12k miles seems a bit low. Make sure you are also running the right fuel for your flash tune, because sometimes when an ECU is flashed, it is tuned for a higher minimum octane. I haven't changed my plugs yet (I am 12k just like you, and I've had JB4 on for ~8k), but the plugs shouldn't be that much of a hassle to change one the M235i, as long as you have time, and patience. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, you can always find a garage that preferably works on European cars, or BMWs in specific, if you want. If you are worried about a dealership messing with your ECU, then I would avoid them at all costs. I just avoid dealerships in general lmao.
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      05-01-2016, 05:45 PM   #3
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you need to change the heat range (colder, not hotter), I change mine every 6-7k, similar hp. I use NGK (4786) LKAR8A-9 solid copper, they do not last as long, but transmit more spark. Gap to 0.018". Changing plugs takes about 40 minutes start to finish, mostly because of some stuff in the way in the back.
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      05-02-2016, 12:52 AM   #4
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Finally got a CEL today and got the code with OBD code reader:

Code: P0303

"Cylinder 3 Misfire"
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      05-02-2016, 03:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligament View Post
Finally got a CEL today and got the code with OBD code reader:

Code: P0303

"Cylinder 3 Misfire"
I'd say give the plugs a shot and see if that solves your issue. Swap the coil pack between cylinder 3 and another cylinder that never gave a code while you're at it. If you still consistently have a misfire code like that, I'd take it to ENZO and see what they say.

I would try aftermarket plugs since you're tuned. These are what I use per Terry's suggestion, gapped at 0.022in
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-NGK-ILZKBR...lVZBr5&vxp=mtr

And I would definitely DIY this, it's not too bad. Just make sure you have the spark plug socket. Here's a DIY
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1226053
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Last edited by ocN55; 05-02-2016 at 03:28 AM..
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      05-02-2016, 07:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skitsos View Post
also, make sure the plugs are the issue first, because 12k miles seems a bit low. Make sure you are also running the right fuel for your flash tune, because sometimes when an ECU is flashed, it is tuned for a higher minimum octane.
This.

Try to acquire the highest octane available to you (91/93). If you're already running high octane try switching stations, especially if you're loyal to one station... that one station could be your issue
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      05-02-2016, 09:22 AM   #7
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What other plug options are there? What have you guys run?

Pparana is copper better than platinum in terms of power? We run exactly the same setup.

Edit: JB4 map 3, AFe intake, full exhaust, ER catless dp, ER chargepipes, Wagner EVO 2 intercooler, Burger Meth injection with two CM5 nozzles and boost juice. 93 octane.

Occasionally, run 100 octane and meth on Map 7.

~9k miles, 8k on JB4, 300 miles on meth.
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Last edited by Mywifes335; 05-02-2016 at 09:28 AM..
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      05-02-2016, 11:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mywifes335 View Post
What other plug options are there? What have you guys run?

Pparana is copper better than platinum in terms of power? We run exactly the same setup.

Edit: JB4 map 3, AFe intake, full exhaust, ER catless dp, ER chargepipes, Wagner EVO 2 intercooler, Burger Meth injection with two CM5 nozzles and boost juice. 93 octane.

Occasionally, run 100 octane and meth on Map 7.

~9k miles, 8k on JB4, 300 miles on meth.
NGK iridiums all the way, check my post above. Try a step colder since you're FBO.
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      05-02-2016, 11:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocN55 View Post
NGK iridiums all the way, check my post above. Try a step colder since you're FBO.
Are these the one-step colder plugs?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121304513303?_mwBanner=1

With one step colder, does the car make less power or does it not affect output?

Thanks!
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      05-02-2016, 11:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mywifes335 View Post
Are these the one-step colder plugs?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121304513303?_mwBanner=1

With one step colder, does the car make less power or does it not affect output?

Thanks!
Doesn't affect output. And yup, those look like the ones I run.
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      05-02-2016, 12:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mywifes335 View Post
What other plug options are there? What have you guys run?

Pparana is copper better than platinum in terms of power? We run exactly the same setup.

Edit: JB4 map 3, AFe intake, full exhaust, ER catless dp, ER chargepipes, Wagner EVO 2 intercooler, Burger Meth injection with two CM5 nozzles and boost juice. 93 octane.

Occasionally, run 100 octane and meth on Map 7.

~9k miles, 8k on JB4, 300 miles on meth.
Copper spark plugs are generally considered to have the best performance of any spark plug type. This is potentially different from what advertising companies suggest, but the other metals are, unfortunately, not as conductive in general as copper is. Platinum and iridium plugs are more likely to overheat, which causes damage to the plug components and can compromise the delivery of the spark to the engine block (hence the need for 1- 2 ranges cooler). The main use for platinum and iridium plugs is longevity.

If you run Platinum and Iridium .022 is the gap, copper, .018, as it will wear quickly to .022 in a few thousand miles.
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      05-18-2016, 07:34 PM   #12
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I changed all the plugs and the problem went away. Engine idling and running very smoothly.
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      05-18-2016, 07:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligament View Post
I changed all the plugs and the problem went away. Engine idling and running very smoothly.
What did you end up putting on ?
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      05-18-2016, 08:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
What did you end up putting on ?
The OEM plugs for the m235i. I was not convinced there was a better alternative.
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      05-20-2016, 12:15 AM   #15
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Good to see that you Got your vehicle running good.
Most of the time you wont have a Miss fire at Idle from a spark plug unless the spark plug is completely fried or a coil is bad.. Not saying you Cant have this, but just usually see a spark plug Fail under load and or be more apparent under load.
Either way you got it fixed and its running good.

This will most likely not pertain to you or any other members with heavy modifications but BMW usually recommends 160 000 KMS for service interval.. (this is here in Canada).
We at the Dealership recommend replacement at the 90-100K Mark. This is mainly due to the fact that our spark plugs here in North america will not last that long without an issue due to our poor quality of fuel we are supplied with here.
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      05-21-2016, 07:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunto View Post
Good to see that you Got your vehicle running good.
Most of the time you wont have a Miss fire at Idle from a spark plug unless the spark plug is completely fried or a coil is bad.. Not saying you Cant have this, but just usually see a spark plug Fail under load and or be more apparent under load.
Either way you got it fixed and its running good.

This will most likely not pertain to you or any other members with heavy modifications but BMW usually recommends 160 000 KMS for service interval.. (this is here in Canada).
We at the Dealership recommend replacement at the 90-100K Mark. This is mainly due to the fact that our spark plugs here in North america will not last that long without an issue due to our poor quality of fuel we are supplied with here.
Thank you Taunto.

I did replace all the spark plugs and all is running well right now.

Is there a chance that a coil is ALSO broken in my engine, and problems will manifest down the road?
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      05-21-2016, 07:47 PM   #17
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it is possible but hard to tell for me without actually seeing the vehicle.

a good note to everyone tho is if your vehicle is miss firing to have it inspected as soon as possible. The electronics on our cars and almost any newer vehicle these days are very fragile.
I have seen a couple times now where a prolonged a bad ignition coil has caused internal damage to the DME and required a new DME followed by programming.

if you have a bad or faulty ignition coil you will notice right away because the vehicle will be miss firing constantly.

the only way to verify a coil is bad besides hooking up a oscilloscope is identify what cylinder is miss firing and without Removing the spark plug swap that cylinders ignition coil to a known good cylinder... clear faults do a key cycle then restart the engine till the check engine light comes on or vehicle begins to miss fire for a little bit. Recheck fault codes and see if the miss fire followed the ignition coil to the other cylinder
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      05-24-2016, 12:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
Copper spark plugs are generally considered to have the best performance of any spark plug type. This is potentially different from what advertising companies suggest, but the other metals are, unfortunately, not as conductive in general as copper is. Platinum and iridium plugs are more likely to overheat, which causes damage to the plug components and can compromise the delivery of the spark to the engine block (hence the need for 1- 2 ranges cooler). The main use for platinum and iridium plugs is longevity.

If you run Platinum and Iridium .022 is the gap, copper, .018, as it will wear quickly to .022 in a few thousand miles.
Very interesting and informative. You're right though, copper is one of the most conductive metals. Might have to give those copper plugs a try.

Is there a particular socket I need to install them?
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      05-24-2016, 10:19 AM   #19
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I had been using the s55 plugs gapped to 0.18 with my Enzo tune after the stock ones blew out. They ran great for 12k miles until installing port injection and turning up the boost. Started to notice the car breaking up above 22psi, and eventually experienced a few misfires, all on cylinder 6. I replaced them with N20 plugs gapped to 0.18 and the car runs great, even up to 25psi. Seems the N20 plugs are great for high boost applications!
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      05-24-2016, 03:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
I had been using the s55 plugs gapped to 0.18 with my Enzo tune after the stock ones blew out. They ran great for 12k miles until installing port injection and turning up the boost. Started to notice the car breaking up above 22psi, and eventually experienced a few misfires, all on cylinder 6. I replaced them with N20 plugs gapped to 0.18 and the car runs great, even up to 25psi. Seems the N20 plugs are great for high boost applications!
what do you use to gap them so tight?
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      05-24-2016, 05:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
I had been using the s55 plugs gapped to 0.18 with my Enzo tune after the stock ones blew out. They ran great for 12k miles until installing port injection and turning up the boost. Started to notice the car breaking up above 22psi, and eventually experienced a few misfires, all on cylinder 6. I replaced them with N20 plugs gapped to 0.18 and the car runs great, even up to 25psi. Seems the N20 plugs are great for high boost applications!

Yeah n20 plugs are another popular choice for the tuned n55 crowd.
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      05-24-2016, 05:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocN55 View Post
Very interesting and informative. You're right though, copper is one of the most conductive metals. Might have to give those copper plugs a try.

Is there a particular socket I need to install them?
you need a deep well spark plug socket, just get one from ecs or another bmw shop,

one thing to note the torque spec is pretty high on the plugs, since the motor is direct injection. I forget the number, but it is more than hand tight.
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