No manual transmission option

[templarklimek]

"I feel every M4 GTS should have been a manual transmission . . . like every true race car."

- email from BMW NA BMW rep.

I loved reading this! They should have given us the damn option. I've got a "golden ticket" for a GTS but I want the emotional connection of a manual. Now I'm conflicted, is the rarity of the GTS worth the loos of the manual?..

Why no choice?!! The M4 already offers a manual as I have now. Sigh...

[mu2002cs]

Interesting comment from BMWNA about "...every true race car...."

All of BMWs new race cars for the last several years have not had manual transmissions. I too like the feel of a manual, but, in the real world of racing, manuals are dead.

The target customer for the M4GTS is a "track guy". The US is about the only place in the world that still embraces manual transmissions. While I will enjoy driving my manual Z4M Coupe at the track this weekend, I know that my lap times are slower with the manual. I love the DCT. For me it adds another dynamic to the car.

With all that said, I agree, a manual as an option would have been nice!

[Y8HOO]

M3 CSL and M3 GTS, SMG and DCT! Why would they change the trend?!

[rr006rbc]

Probably so they can achieve the best bragging rights down to the thousands of a second for 0-60 dashes and racetrack lap times.

[Brosef]

it comes down to purpose, in my mind. they wanted to take the M4 to the very edge of its performance envelope. a manual would have fallen short, even if it would provide other emotional / subjective benefits to a select few. but if driving a manual is your intent, why not just get a regular M4?

also, I take exception to the comment, "like every true race car". clearly an uninformed ass-hat with no idea what he's talking about.

personally, I like cars with fewer options and with a more firm position on what the manufacturer wants the car to be like. I'd rather they keep all the GTS's uniform with DCT's. I would then like to see BMW come out with a CRT or other lightweight model focused on weight reduction and simplicity, perhaps with only a manual trans.

JMO.

[M3tallicar]

Having the option would've been nice, and I would've certainly opted for the manual, but they're taking the Porsche 991.1 GT3/GTRS stance with this, they wanted to make the most consistently fast car they could deliver and with the MDCT they get that.

Now if all us cry hard enough and wave our picket signs then you might see a manual option on a halo car down the line, see the 911R and the upcoming 911.2 GT3.

In either case, for those of us in the US, feel lucky that we're finally getting one of these cars now in a rather undiluted form, I can't even believe we're getting the cage!
The bottomline is, if you don't want this car, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people in the US waiting in line behind you.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by mu2002cs

Interesting comment from BMWNA about "...every true race car...."

All of BMWs new race cars for the last several years have not had manual transmissions. I too like the feel of a manual, but, in the real world of racing, manuals are dead.

The target customer for the M4GTS is a "track guy". The US is about the only place in the world that still embraces manual transmissions. While I will enjoy driving my manual Z4M Coupe at the track this weekend, I know that my lap times are slower with the manual. I love the DCT. For me it adds another dynamic to the car.

With all that said, I agree, a manual as an option would have been nice!

10-15 years ago you couldn't rent a car in Europe with an automatic. How times change.

[Sassicaia]

All these cars should be about the driver, so leave the choice to them.

[Its_lobelt]

Manual would be slower. Plain and simple.

[dubsesd]

even if its slower with a manual...it wouldnt matter. sad truth is that most of these cars sold will be garage stored for their increase in value. only the true enthusiasts and forum members here will probably drive them

[Captain Unknown GT4]

A manual Box in this car would set it back ca. 5 seconds on the lap at Nur. To BMW those seconds are to importent these days to even consider a manual box. The Gts is quite a comeback For M, and them last seconds are importent in this comeback.

[jml]

This conversation nearly led to civil war on rennlist (w/r to 991 GT3)

Chasing lap times gets you some automation. I'm just glad we don't have other BS like rear-steer.

[m4pewpew]

Because race car.

[RPChan]

Originally Posted by templarklimek

"I feel every M4 GTS should have been a manual transmission . . . like every true race car."

- email from BMW NA BMW rep.

I loved reading this! They should have given us the damn option. I've got a "golden ticket" for a GTS but I want the emotional connection of a manual. Now I'm conflicted, is the rarity of the GTS worth the loos of the manual?..

Why no choice?!! The M4 already offers a manual as I have now. Sigh...

You have the answer in your comment. BMW offers a manual if you want an M4. They are only making 700 GTS cars and they are all uniform except the color. They are building a purpose built track car and today those are all with DCT. As you can buy an M4 with a manual you have the option of building your own track car with a plethora of after market parts available.

[DC-T]

Ok. someone please explain what it is with manual transmissions.

[Sassicaia]

Originally Posted by DC-T

Ok. someone please explain what it is with manual transmissions.

My take and in reference to the quote from the BMW rep in the OP is that a manual transition requires more input and skill to drive then an automatic, hence the "true racer" comment. DCT takes away some of the driver's input, and removes the need of the skill a driver must have to manage the shifting manually. Certainly DCT doesn't complete eliminate it, but its one step closer to a car driving itself.

Personally I think people who like MTs enjoy getting as involved in the driving experience as possible. Like any other sport if you automated part of the process it becomes less challenging, and in turn less fun.

For some reason I'm reminded of the fact that most musicians toping the charts today don't know how to play an instrument.

[DC-T]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

My take and in reference to the quote from the BMW rep in the OP is that a manual transition requires more input and skill to drive then an automatic, hence the "true racer" comment. DCT takes away some of the driver's input, and removes the need of the skill a driver must have to manage the shifting manually. Certainly DCT doesn't complete eliminate it, but its one step closer to a car driving itself.

Personally I think people who like MTs enjoy getting as involved in the driving experience as possible.

For some reason I'm reminded of the fact that most musicians toping the charts today don't know how to play an instrument.

Mate, you need say no more. That totally explains it

[templarklimek]

I'm the original OP of this topic and I don't have disdain for DCT but IMHO builders are using as an excuse to increase profits and simply production. My two close frinds and I stayed up late last night as they tried to convince that I would not enjoy nor keep the GTS as I've ever kept manual tranny cars.

What does dissipoint me is the friction that seems to arise when manual lover's insist on it and DCT owners can become somewhat hostile in defense of the DCT as it shifts quicker than a human. That's great and your choice. But ultimately isn't it about driving pleasure that each us want and should be our choice. Audi has stopped manual tranny for the U.S. and I dont they realize thery are just pushing manual lovers to BMW, Porsche or American muscle which still has a 60/40 split for manual transmissions.

To each their own I say. If they stoop making manuals then I stoop buying expensive sports cars.... "Give me a manual or give me death!"

[DC-T]

Originally Posted by templarklimek

I'm the original OP of this topic and I don't have disdain for DCT but IMHO builders are using as an excuse to increase profits and simply production. My two close frinds and I stayed up late last night as they tried to convince that I would not enjoy nor keep the GTS as I've ever kept manual tranny cars.

What does dissipoint me is the friction that seems to arise when manual lover's insist on it and DCT owners can become somewhat hostile in defense of the DCT as it shifts quicker than a human. That's great and your choice. But ultimately isn't it about driving pleasure that each us want and should be our choice. Audi has stopped manual tranny for the U.S. and I dont they realize thery are just pushing manual lovers to BMW, Porsche or American muscle which still has a 60/40 split for manual transmissions.

To each their own I say. If they stoop making manuals then I stoop buying expensive sports cars.... "Give me a manual or give me death!"

[u2b]https://youtu.be/mRSpi-y1jkw[u2b]

OP, when I first watched that movie-Boyz N The Hood as a kid I didn't get it at all. We didn't understand what the question meant, can you drive stick. As I've grown over the years I've never gotten it. In your response you say you were up late speaking about it, when I went to my first Nascar race I met two fellas also about it. It's such a massive debate over there where here we don't care-if you like the car great, if you don't you don't. It's just never been such an issue. When VW introduced DSG on the Golf V it took a while to catch on, but then it did it was wildfire. I juts can't relate on why it means so much-on many a thread I've seem the complaint that thus or that doesn't come in MT. Why does it matter? Is it the thrill of the drive? Is it just preference? Is it history? The avoidance of robots? Just thinking out loud.

ps. Had it not been for this site, I would have never knows the F10 M5 comes in manual. Have never seen one.

[DC-T]

Originally Posted by templarklimek

I'm the original OP of this topic and I don't have disdain for DCT but IMHO builders are using as an excuse to increase profits and simply production. My two close frinds and I stayed up late last night as they tried to convince that I would not enjoy nor keep the GTS as I've ever kept manual tranny cars.

What does dissipoint me is the friction that seems to arise when manual lover's insist on it and DCT owners can become somewhat hostile in defense of the DCT as it shifts quicker than a human. That's great and your choice. But ultimately isn't it about driving pleasure that each us want and should be our choice. Audi has stopped manual tranny for the U.S. and I dont they realize thery are just pushing manual lovers to BMW, Porsche or American muscle which still has a 60/40 split for manual transmissions.

To each their own I say. If they stoop making manuals then I stoop buying expensive sports cars.... "Give me a manual or give me death!"

see what I meant:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1259328

All day debate.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by templarklimek

"I feel every M4 GTS should have been a manual transmission . . . like every true race car."

- email from BMW NA BMW rep.

I loved reading this! They should have given us the damn option. I've got a "golden ticket" for a GTS but I want the emotional connection of a manual. Now I'm conflicted, is the rarity of the GTS worth the loos of the manual?..

Why no choice?!! The M4 already offers a manual as I have now. Sigh...

I seriously doubt that the GTS will be an appreciating investment.

As for the "true race car" quote at this point in time most race cars have two pedals and the drivers left foot brake.

The GTS is a primarily a track day car as opposed to a dedicated race car. It is only offered with DCT so my advice would be if you don't like the DCT don't buy a GTS.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by rr006rbc

Probably so they can achieve the best bragging rights down to the thousands of a second for 0-60 dashes and racetrack lap times.

Because now, DCT (not SMG) is significantly faster than 6MT!

And, frankly, S55 begs for a 7-speed or an 8-speed transmission.
Even DCT can use an 8th over-drive gear!
BMW hasn't bothered updating the 6MT in years, and it doesn't look like it will invest any more into manuals in the future.
So you are stuck with a slower, less efficient 6MT in other, pedestrian, M3/4 cars.

And no, you can't have GTS without ABS and power steering either. Those two also "numb" the driving purity and "emotional connection" with the "true race car of the 60s... "
If you are not hard-core enough to demand race cars without ABS and power steering, then you to p*ssy to complain about DCT!

Originally Posted by templarklimek

Audi has stopped manual tranny for the U.S. and I dont they realize thery are just pushing manual lovers to BMW, Porsche or American muscle which still has a 60/40 split for manual transmissions.

They don't, because it is not true.
Manual tranny sales are down into low single digits, bouncing between 4-7% as of late:
http://www.autotrader.com/car-news/m...ularity-192206

If you have data to substantiate your claim that 60% of M3 sales are 6MT - please quote the source.

Originally Posted by templarklimek

To each their own I say.

Agreed.
But continuing to offer 6MT comes at a price.
How much extra would you be willing to pay in the future for 6MT?

a