[Cjd9]

I have a black 2011 328i with 38k miles that I just sold on eBay for $15,500. It took awhile to sell it and I had a hard time getting that much money due to an accident on the Carfax.

Anyone sell a car on eBay before? The buyer is mailing me a cashier's check. He did not ask for a prepurchase inspection. He will pay to have the car shipped from MD to GA. Is there anything I should be worried about? The car is in great condition, but what if he decides to return it or say something is wrong?

[princelybug]

Cashiers Check = good as cash. I wouldn't worry about anything.

[patents]

Originally Posted by princelybug

Cashiers Check = good as cash. I wouldn't worry about anything.

NO NO NO!!!

There are forged cashier's checks all over the place. By the time it bounces the car is gone. Very, VERY common with internet sales where there was no face to face contact.

Tell the buyer you will ship as soon as the check clears. Then ask your bank how many days it will take. Before you ship go back to the bank to verify. If it bounces they will send a letter that may take awhile.

By law, there are only a certain number of days a bank has to bounce a bad check. If they don't bounce it in that number of days, and it's bad, then the back has to eat it.

Ask the bank what the day limit is for bounced checks. They may be vague and say "oh, if it bounces it should only take a few days." That's not good enough. You need them to be more specific. You cannot risk shipping the car before a bad cashier's check has had a chance to bounce.

The forgeries are good... and often they will use real bank routing numbers, so it doesn't bounce immediately.

Your bank may be able to call the issuing bank to get an oral verification when you bring it in.

Another option is to ship the car, but hold the title until the check clears. Would be a big hassle if it bounces, though.

[patents]

Oh, and to answer your question... once you have the money and he has the car and title, there is nothing he can really do. Buyer beware. A bill of sale signed by him explicitly stating that it's an as-is sale wouldn't hurt. But if he really wanted to make a stink he would have to sue you... in MD. And he's not going to go through that trouble.

[princelybug]

I was thinking he could just go to the buyer's bank and cash it right away. But the buyer's bank may not have any branches near the seller.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Cjd9

I have a black 2011 328i with 38k miles that I just sold on eBay for $15,500. It took awhile to sell it and I had a hard time getting that much money due to an accident on the Carfax.

Anyone sell a car on eBay before? The buyer is mailing me a cashier's check. He did not ask for a prepurchase inspection. He will pay to have the car shipped from MD to GA. Is there anything I should be worried about? The car is in great condition, but what if he decides to return it or say something is wrong?

It takes about 10 days for a check to clear unless you cash it at the institution which issued the check. Hopefully it's from a major bank. Go there, open an account and crash the check and close the account. Or pay check cashing fee.

Keep in mind, only issuing institution can verify validity of the check.

[rsyed07]

My gut tells me OP shipped the car already

[Cjd9]

Thanks for the help. I haven't shipped it yet. The car is still under a loan and I told the buyer that I would have to wait for the check to cash and pay off the loan before I shipped it and he was good with that.

[Mr. Tasty]

Originally Posted by Cjd9

Thanks for the help. I haven't shipped it yet. The car is still under a loan and I told the buyer that I would have to wait for the check to cash and pay off the loan before I shipped it and he was good with that.

you are safe then. It is very easy for banks to tell if the Cashier's check is fraudulent or not. They verify the sender.

[kfriceman]

....or you have the buyer do a wire transfer to your account......that takes about 2 minutes.

-Kevin

[patents]

When I bought my E90 it had a lien on it. It was a local sale from a private party - I met him in person. I got a cashier's check made out to the lienholding bank. That way he couldn't cash it and run off with the money. I got the car in my possession, and just had to wait and trust that he'd send me the title (which he did). I listened to the phone call between the seller and BMW Financial regarding his payoff procedures, so I knew it was legit.

The seller took my cashier's check, another check from him (he was a couple hundred upside down on the loan), and overnighted them to BMW Financial for the payoff.

Buyers - if you buy a car with a lien on it, always make the check out to the bank. Even if it's more than payoff - the bank will refund the difference to the seller. Get the car in your possession and have a signed bill of sale. If the seller fails to deliver the title, you have solid grounds to sue (and win). Not that winning automatically gives you a clean title...

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Mr. Tasty

you are safe then. It is very easy for banks to tell if the Cashier's check is fraudulent or not. They verify the sender.

Trust me - it's not easy and they don't verify anything.

Let me know if you want me to elaborate.

[Vitalität]

YES YES YES!!! Seller needs to wait until its all cleared in the bank. That's a no brainer.

Originally Posted by patents

NO NO NO!!!

There are forged cashier's checks all over the place. By the time it bounces the car is gone. Very, VERY common with internet sales where there was no face to face contact.

Tell the buyer you will ship as soon as the check clears. Then ask your bank how many days it will take. Before you ship go back to the bank to verify. If it bounces they will send a letter that may take awhile.

By law, there are only a certain number of days a bank has to bounce a bad check. If they don't bounce it in that number of days, and it's bad, then the back has to eat it.

Ask the bank what the day limit is for bounced checks. They may be vague and say "oh, if it bounces it should only take a few days." That's not good enough. You need them to be more specific. You cannot risk shipping the car before a bad cashier's check has had a chance to bounce.

The forgeries are good... and often they will use real bank routing numbers, so it doesn't bounce immediately.

Your bank may be able to call the issuing bank to get an oral verification when you bring it in.

Another option is to ship the car, but hold the title until the check clears. Would be a big hassle if it bounces, though.

[Vitalität]

YES YES YES!!! Seller needs to wait until its all cleared in the bank before the delivery. That's a no brainer.

Originally Posted by patents

NO NO NO!!!

There are forged cashier's checks all over the place. By the time it bounces the car is gone. Very, VERY common with internet sales where there was no face to face contact.

Tell the buyer you will ship as soon as the check clears. Then ask your bank how many days it will take. Before you ship go back to the bank to verify. If it bounces they will send a letter that may take awhile.

By law, there are only a certain number of days a bank has to bounce a bad check. If they don't bounce it in that number of days, and it's bad, then the back has to eat it.

Ask the bank what the day limit is for bounced checks. They may be vague and say "oh, if it bounces it should only take a few days." That's not good enough. You need them to be more specific. You cannot risk shipping the car before a bad cashier's check has had a chance to bounce.

The forgeries are good... and often they will use real bank routing numbers, so it doesn't bounce immediately.

Your bank may be able to call the issuing bank to get an oral verification when you bring it in.

Another option is to ship the car, but hold the title until the check clears. Would be a big hassle if it bounces, though.

[Mr. Tasty]

Originally Posted by W37V

Trust me - it's not easy and they don't verify anything.

Let me know if you want me to elaborate.

please elaborate. I have never had an issue. Maybe because of my choices in buyers.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by Mr. Tasty

please elaborate. I have never had an issue. Maybe because of my choices in buyers.

I got burned by a bad cashiers check a couple years ago from an Ebay sale. Luckily I hadnt sent anything yet but I had to pay a $20 fee

[The HACK]

Somewhere else on the intarweb is a thread about a buyer who's asking about a seller that's "dragging his feet" about sending him the car and title after he's sent the cashier's check, and wondering about getting scammed buying a car on eBay. Goes something like this:

Bought a 2011 328i on eBay, car's a little fishy with a wonky CarFax report but the deal was too good. Send a cashier's check as the seller requested, seller deposited the check but now is telling me he's going to have to wait 2 weeks before shipping the car in order for the cashier's check to clear.

Meanwhile I'm having cold feet...All those stories about eBay car buying scams and all. What is to stop the seller from cashing in my check, and never send me the car and title? Did I just get taken for a fool?

-Signed, concerned eBay shopper.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Mr. Tasty

please elaborate. I have never had an issue. Maybe because of my choices in buyers.

Have you seen the movie "Catch me if you can" with Tom Hanks and Leonardo D.? The movie explains is rather well... but I will give it a try.

Unless the check is issued by the bank (bank A) at which you are cashing a check, no other institution can know if the check is good or not. The reason for this is that the issuing bank (A) has a records (at least should have) for the issued check. Each cashiers check's funds are placed in a suspense account at the bank and are tied to the check number. That is why the cashiers checks were considered to be "guaranteed" - because the bank is guaranteeing money. There is a trace as to who purchased the check and where the funds came from. Since the check is tied to the originating bank's books (bank'a A), no other bank (bank B) can access those accounts as they are proprietary, thus they can't verify if the funds are available or not. To verify if the funds are good, banks go through an intermediary - federal reserve bank aka fed.

Where the scammers take advantage is the float period. The flat period is the time which takes for the cashing bank (bank B) to "get in touch" and get funds from the issuing bank (bank A). The float period varies and can range from few days to few weeks. The usual float is somewhere around 7 to 10 days. Previously (prior to 2011) this float period could've been much greater (several weeks) depending on the location of the bank. The float period also allowed "check kiting".

In order to reduce risk of fraud, banks often place a hold on the check as allowed by Regulation CC. The hold varies but can be several business days. Some banks don't place holds on checks and release funds immediately. Often, consumers consider this as a sign that the check is good, when in reality check might not be.

Now for the verification of the identify of the issuer of the check:
The bank who is cashing the check does not verify identity of the person who purchased the check. It's almost impossible for them to do so, unless the check purchaser (owner) is banking with the same institution. In order to verify the identity, the bank would need to have personal information of the check owner (Name, D.O.B., SSN, etc.). Quite often, the check might not contain that information. Also, they are not required (BSA or AML) to verify the identity of check owner. Just think how many checks a bank processes a day and how much time and money it would take for them verify each persons identity. All the bank really cares about is if they will get money or not.

However, if you do bank with the bank, the bank will need to verify your identity by asking you to provide ID, running your credit report, etc.

Hopefully i didn't confuse you too much.