[strumbringer]

Just trying to figure out if my steering issues are just my car, or some product of my combination of options.

I have a 340i xDrive with THP.

The issue I'm facing is, especially in sport mode, the steering is very loose for a couple degress around the center. This results in an abrupt weight change when, for example, slowly turning from left of center to right of center, particularly at higher speeds. I suspect this is a programming issue where the EPS is not compensating for the stupid (IMO) dead spot at the center, but that's just speculation.

Has anyone else noticed this with their F30 LCI xDrive cars with VSS/THP? Also, not sure if this makes a diff, but I have the 18" wheels with non-RFTs.

Thanks!

[mwh2009]

Originally Posted by strumbringer

Just trying to figure out if my steering issues are just my car, or some product of my combination of options.

I have a 340i xDrive with THP.

The issue I'm facing is, especially in sport mode, the steering is very loose for a couple degress around the center. This results in an abrupt weight change when, for example, slowly turning from left of center to right of center, particularly at higher speeds. I suspect this is a programming issue where the EPS is not compensating for the stupid (IMO) dead spot at the center, but that's just speculation.

Has anyone else noticed this with their cars?

Thanks!

I have not noticed that - will check for it next time i'm out. So it happens only in Sport/Sport+? Are you off the brakes and throttle when you observe it?

The variable steering surprised me a couple of times (at least I think that's what it was) in decreasing radius turns until I got a feel for it, but this sounds different...

[strumbringer]

Correct, much more noticeable in Sport/Sport+. I can feel it in comfort too now, but I suspect that's because I know what I'm looking for and I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I didn't usually drive in Sport. I don't think brakes or throttle make a difference. I'm pretty sure I've noticed it both on throttle and off.

[Lancelot]

I had the same issue, the cure to that is to change the lower control arms with those from the m3/m4 adding some camber, your center "dead zone" will disappear almost completely, the steering feel will also have more weight.

[Wires]

Same deal here. It seems to show up after not turning moving the wheel for a period of time. It's like it goes to "sleep" waiting for a new input from the driver.

Typically I notice it driving on the highway (feels switchy due to this "dead spot"). I have also noticed it if you are doing a cloverleaf onto a highway, and then correct the angle part way through (little freaky at that point).

Does not seem to appear in comfort mode though.

Lancelot, do you need to get it aligned after doing the control arms, or is this just a bolt in and drive?

[chiefneil]

I've seen complaints about an on-center dead spot, but haven't experienced it personally. I have other complaints about the steering, but that isn't one of them. For me, the steering is precise and responsive, just lacking in feel and centering torque.

For reference this is my 5th BMW, my 3rd 3-series.

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by Wires

Same deal here. It seems to show up after not turning moving the wheel for a period of time. It's like it goes to "sleep" waiting for a new input from the driver.

Typically I notice it driving on the highway (feels switchy due to this "dead spot"). I have also noticed it if you are doing a cloverleaf onto a highway, and then correct the angle part way through (little freaky at that point).

Does not seem to appear in comfort mode though.

Lancelot, do you need to get it aligned after doing the control arms, or is this just a bolt in and drive?

Yes you need alignment after this, the mounting is not very complex (less than 1 hour work from the shop) but alignment is a must it was completely off afterwards.

[paul e]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

I had the same issue, the cure to that is to change the lower control arms with those from the m3/m4 adding some camber, your center "dead zone" will disappear almost completely, the steering feel will also have more weight.

These can go on an xDrive?

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by strumbringer

Just trying to figure out if my steering issues are just my car, or some product of my combination of options.

I have a 340i xDrive with THP.

The issue I'm facing is, especially in sport mode, the steering is very loose for a couple degress around the center. This results in an abrupt weight change when, for example, slowly turning from left of center to right of center, particularly at higher speeds. I suspect this is a programming issue where the EPS is not compensating for the stupid (IMO) dead spot at the center, but that's just speculation.

Has anyone else noticed this with their cars?

Thanks!

Do have VSS?
I noticed the odd on/off center oddity more so with my 335i that had VSS.
My 340i does not have VSS and the odd on/off center is not as prominent, though it's still there just less so.
My 335i was a 2013 built in 2012, one of the first Msports.
Since then BMW has revised the steering rack about 3 or 4 times, and for the LCI there have also been some steering components mounting changes, all of which results in my 340i having a nicely better overall steering feel compared to my 335i.
It's still not as great at my 135i or my E46 hydraulic assist steering.

BMW REALLY NEEDS TO FIX THIS ISSUE with their EPS steering.

[goj]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

I've seen complaints about an on-center dead spot, but haven't experienced it personally. I have other complaints about the steering, but that isn't one of them. For me, the steering is precise and responsive, just lacking in feel and centering torque.

For reference this is my 5th BMW, my 3rd 3-series.

This is also my impression

[mwh2009]

Originally Posted by strumbringer

Correct, much more noticeable in Sport/Sport+. I can feel it in comfort too now, but I suspect that's because I know what I'm looking for and I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I didn't usually drive in Sport. I don't think brakes or throttle make a difference. I'm pretty sure I've noticed it both on throttle and off.

So I checked it out on my car during my drive to DC tonight. Both a very slow 2nd gear test and a high speed (80mph) test. Without the benefit of being able to compare to previous BMWs (this is my first), this is what I observed:

I don't think there is a dead spot per other posts I've read. The steering is definitely lighter for 2-3 degrees left/right of center. But the car still turns - so it's not dead or loose, just lighter effort. Then it loads up quickly with increased steering angle.

At higher speed, the steering effort feels tighter, and obviously it's difficult to test large steering inputs at highway speeds, but still feels like it loads up more with more angle.

I think that's how the VSS is supposed to work, but others may have more sensitivity than me. So far I am pretty happy with the steering, especially given how much people have maligned it - it may also help to have the MPSS tires and 18" wheels....?

[strumbringer]

Originally Posted by goj

This is also my impression

FWIW, it's a documented fact that they *have* engineered a dead spot in (I discovered this after I found the issue that I am noticing).

Here it is:

"Elsewhere, BMW says tweaks to the steering have improved feel – but we’re not convinced. In fact, due to feedback from China and the U.S. (the 3 Series’ biggest market) engineers have actually introduced a really small flat spot when the car is driving dead ahead. This allows an ever-so-slight amount of play on the wheel before anything kicks in – to avoid unintentional sharp changes of direction at high speed. Apparently the old one was too twitchy. However, it only affects a degree or two off centre, and once you’re on a flowing country road you’d be hard pushed to tell the difference."

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/3-s...acelift-review

[strumbringer]

Originally Posted by mwh2009

So I checked it out on my car during my drive to DC tonight. Both a very slow 2nd gear test and a high speed (80mph) test. Without the benefit of being able to compare to previous BMWs (this is my first), this is what I observed:

I don't think there is a dead spot per other posts I've read. The steering is definitely lighter for 2-3 degrees left/right of center. But the car still turns - so it's not dead or loose, just lighter effort. Then it loads up quickly with increased steering angle.

At higher speed, the steering effort feels tighter, and obviously it's difficult to test large steering inputs at highway speeds, but still feels like it loads up more with more angle.

I think that's how the VSS is supposed to work, but others may have more sensitivity than me. So far I am pretty happy with the steering, especially given how much people have maligned it - it may also help to have the MPSS tires and 18" wheels....?

Yeah, it's a couple degrees off center, not a large steering input. In fact, most noticeable when making a small correction - as someone else said, e.g. on a freeway ramp that's straightening out.

Yes, VSS - that's part of the THP. Also, just to be clear - I'm talking about an LCI 340i xDrive - with the new steering. Pre-2016 steering is *not* the same.

[goj]

Originally Posted by strumbringer

FWIW, it's a documented fact that they *have* engineered a dead spot in (I discovered this after I found the issue that I am noticing).

Here it is:

"Elsewhere, BMW says tweaks to the steering have improved feel – but we’re not convinced. In fact, due to feedback from China and the U.S. (the 3 Series’ biggest market) engineers have actually introduced a really small flat spot when the car is driving dead ahead. This allows an ever-so-slight amount of play on the wheel before anything kicks in – to avoid unintentional sharp changes of direction at high speed. Apparently the old one was too twitchy. However, it only affects a degree or two off centre, and once you’re on a flowing country road you’d be hard pushed to tell the difference."

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/3-s...acelift-review

Yeah there's not a whole lot of what is referred to as feel. Which is that precision on center aspect of the steering. But I do feel like when in turns the LCI steering is different than the pre LCI in a sense you have some idea through the steering what the front wheels are doing which wasn't the case pre LCI

[strumbringer]

Agreed, definitely way better road feel with the LCI.

[strumbringer]

Drove the C450 today. Markedly better on-center feel overall (even though it doesn't let much texture information through) and a more sportily configured AWD, and the suspension works great in all modes. Even though I like the 340i better in many other ways, I'm so fed up of the steering that I'm probably going to switch sometime in the not-too-distant future. Same was true of the ATS, but the interior is something I can't put up with. Sigh.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by strumbringer

Drove the C450 today. Markedly better on-center feel overall (even though it doesn't let much texture information through) and a more sportily configured AWD, and the suspension works great in all modes. Even though I like the 340i better in many other ways, I'm so fed up of the steering that I'm probably going to switch sometime in the not-too-distant future. Same was true of the ATS, but the interior is something I can't put up with. Sigh.

Agreed. The ATS is just brilliant dynamically, yet they drop the ball on the relatively simple stuff (interior and packaging). I recently test drove a 2016 model with the new V6 and 8AT, and the ATS is on a whole different level dynamically than my 335i. Amazing.

I also wish Cadillac offered a more sport oriented model (similar to an M Sport package)...something less than the full V. A V-Sport if you will, like the CTS.

[strumbringer]

That would be great indeed! With a reworked interior and a V-Sport like package the ATS could be hard to beat. I wish I could overlook the interior foibles for the dynamic nature of the car, but since I will spend 60% of my time sitting in traffic, I realized that just wasn't going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if the C450 / C43 quickly becomes the best AWD option in the class (unless the upcoming S4 really nails it).

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by strumbringer

That would be great indeed! With a reworked interior and a V-Sport like package the ATS could be hard to beat. I wish I could overlook the interior foibles for the dynamic nature of the car, but since I will spend 60% of my time sitting in traffic, I realized that just wasn't going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if the C450 / C43 quickly becomes the best AWD option in the class (unless the upcoming S4 really nails it).

Agreed. I had three main issues with the ATS...gauge cluster, lack of rear legroom, and no manual with the V6. It's such an impressive car that likely if even one of these three had been avoided, I probably would have ended up with an ATS.

There were rumors of a V-Sport ATS, but I imagine the poor sales numbers overall have snuffed out any chance of specialty models. The CTS V-Sport may be the finest car I've ever driven.

p.s. Last weekend I drove a new Camaro with that new V6 and a 6 speed manual. Brilliant power train combo with the Alpha chassis.

[Liquid_Ice]

Originally Posted by strumbringer

Drove the C450 today. Markedly better on-center feel overall (even though it doesn't let much texture information through) and a more sportily configured AWD, and the suspension works great in all modes. Even though I like the 340i better in many other ways, I'm so fed up of the steering that I'm probably going to switch sometime in the not-too-distant future. Same was true of the ATS, but the interior is something I can't put up with. Sigh.

I'm surprised with your experience, I test drove a C450 AMG - this was the car I wanted. I wanted to love it, and I loved a lot of things about it - it felt really fast, the exhaust sounded great - I even got the car to slide around a turn. But the steering - while accurate, felt like I was driving a Lexus ES or something the entire time. My issue was specifically with how light the steering is the entire time - regardless of whether you're in Eco, Comfort, Spot or Sport Plus. I asked about it on the mbworld forums to see if maybe something was wrong with the C450 I test drove, and even C63 AMG owners said the steering is not great on the car. Someone on mbworld said the C450 (and C63) does not adjust the steering resistance based on the mode you're in - so it is always more on the side of luxury and light steering.

After that I test drove a 340i xDrive and despite preferring the interior of the C450, I ordered a 340i xDrive because the car felt like it drove so much better, especially the steering. The one I drove and the one I ordered does not have VSS or the THP though.

I'd exchange the 2 degrees of center steer lightness - but overall better steering weight versus the all the time steering lightness I felt on the C450 AMG.

[strumbringer]

Originally Posted by Liquid_Ice

I'm surprised with your experience, I test drove a C450 AMG - this was the car I wanted. I wanted to love it, and I loved a lot of things about it - it felt really fast, the exhaust sounded great - I even got the car to slide around a turn. But the steering - while accurate, felt like I was driving a Lexus ES or something the entire time. My issue was specifically with how light the steering is the entire time - regardless of whether you're in Eco, Comfort, Spot or Sport Plus. I asked about it on the mbworld forums to see if maybe something was wrong with the C450 I test drove, and even C63 AMG owners said the steering is not great on the car. Someone on mbworld said the C450 (and C63) does not adjust the steering resistance based on the mode you're in - so it is always more on the side of luxury and light steering.

After that I test drove a 340i xDrive and despite preferring the interior of the C450, I ordered a 340i xDrive because the car felt like it drove so much better, especially the steering. The one I drove and the one I ordered does not have VSS or the THP though.

I'd exchange the 2 degrees of center steer lightness - but overall better steering weight versus the all the time steering lightness I felt on the C450 AMG.

I wonder if they made some updates to the 450 in models produced after the one you drove? The one I drove had pretty good weight in Sport and Sport+ modes, albeit not as good as the BMW hydraulic steering of old. A little lighter than the BMW EPS, but definitely not Lexus-like. It did feel a bit too light at parking lot speeds* (you weren't only comparing in the parking lot, I assume?) but other than that, it felt well-weighted and precise with good aligning torque and gave a better sense of turn-in.

Whoever told you it doesn't adjust steering weight is smoking something, though It even has 3 settings for Steering in the Individual mode (which offers the ability to independently choose steering, suspension, throttle response and transmission modes rather than sticking to the pre-programmed ones).

I wonder if the VSS is the issue on the BMW. The dead spot on center does not bother me as much in Comfort mode because it's not as firm once it's out of the flat spot, so it's less of a jarring transition - but since I can't choose sport suspension and comfort steering, I rarely drive in Comfort. I think non-VSS doesn't have Sport steering, so it's "Comfort" all the time.


[*] Random trivia - Porsche does this too, but charges extra (like $700?) for the "feature." If you're ever considering a P-car, do yourself a favor and save some money but not getting "Power Steering Plus" :P