[Big Nodge]

Curious what others think in terms of the importance of keeping EDC functionality when upgrading suspension. This is a personal choice that I'll make for myself obviously, but intersted in other opinions.

I have a 340xi with the adaptive suspension. I'm planning to do Dinan sway bars and also suspension. So far keeping my EDC functionality has been a priority since I think the tech is kind of cool and I like the idea of being able to run comfort mode in the winter when the roads get crappy.

However, overall for suspension my priorities are improved handling and a modest drop, since I have the m perf front lip. And I'm realizing that the two EDC options I'm aware of, Dinan springs/shockware and the KW DDC coils, both drop the car at least an inch, more for the KWs. This has me worried about winter.

So now I'm thinking about the KW Street Performance coils. The balance between performance and comfort is tilted a bit more towards comfort than the DDCs, but more importantly I could run a more modest drop, or raise them a bit in the winters.

Really the only drawback is I'd lose my EDC functionality. And as I understand it I could code the car so that I wouldn't have any codes or non-functional menus etc.

So, what do you think? Losing a feature I just paid for is the only thing holding me back from pulling the trigger on the KWs. What would you do?

[alohasurftoad]

i have no personal experience with adaptive suspension but i've read a lot on these forums about adaptive, shockware, springs, coilovers, etc. and these are my thoughts.

the dinan springs, supplemental kit (bumpstops), and shockware retains the oem adaptive struts while the shockware and bumpstops sort of mitigates the wear and tear on the factory struts typically associated with a springs only drop. i do think the shockware stiffens the factory oem adaptive settings to do this. $895+installation.

kw has it's own adaptive settings and i have no idea or info on how similar it is to the oem adaptive. the cost $3K + installation.

it'd be much better if peeps with either of these chime in. from the info i have at the moment i'd just do the dinan route.

[CruzM3]

I have read that many run ACS springs with the OEM adaptive setup and have had zero issues when all they did was change the springs. I'm of the mindset that will cause premature failure of the dampers eventually so I plan to do ACS springs + Dinan shockware + Dinan bumpstops on my 340i with adaptive M suspension.It will be awhile until I do though as I'm changing wheels and tires first.

[Lancelot]

i'm in the same boat and have decided to upgrade to KW DDC or do nothing, adaptive suspension is something i want to keep;

i'll discuss this with my shop see what they think of the drop because i have the same concern it may be too low, but if not i'll go for these KW DDC plug and play someday, sooner or later.

i wouldn't just upgrade springs out of concern of wearing the dampers.

[DVC]

I've considered suspension options in depth over the past few years, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject. Apologies in advance, as this will be long...


BMW's adaptive functionality in their EDC dampers is something I wanted when I ordered my car, as I was interested in the capability to adjust the damping curves for different driving conditions - and even more compelling was the technology where the suspension ECU dynamically adapts damping based on various sensor inputs to yield optimal compression/rebound characteristics.
But after picking up the car, I quickly realized that the factory EDC settings were too soft/compliant for my liking. And while the dynamic adaptive functionality worked well in some situations, it fell short in others - again, erring on the side of comfort at the expense of chassis control. (A little research determined that the system in the 3 series cars was a much less sophisticated version of what was in the 5 series and M cars, and it just doesn't work as well.)

I was still inclined to keep the adaptability of the suspension, but really wanted more performance-oriented damping characteristics... so plan A was to go with what Dinan was working on. When they became available, I ordered Dinan springs, and waited for Dinan to release their Shockware (I was one of the first in the country to install it on the day it was released). The springs were a nice improvement, being that they're linear and a bit firmer. But when I added Shockware, I could barely tell any difference; I had been hoping for a significant improvement, but a little more research determined that there's really not much more performance to be extracted from the stock EDC damper hardware.

So at this point, the car was still not quite what I was hoping for, but certainly better... so I stuck with this setup for a while. After a year or so, I noticed that the ride height of the car was getting lower and lower, to the point of a negative front fender gap, or where the top of the front tires were tucked up inside the fender. (I also have the M Performance front splitter, so front clearance was now a real problem, and I was scraping my splitter all over the place!) In fairness, I can't blame the Dinan spring degradation on just a typical year of daily driving, as I had also run several HPDEs. And in addition to spring collapse, as I got faster on track, I was starting to get a chassis warning code on the iDrive, which I determined to be an EDC computer error related to the high corner loads I was subjecting the car to. The day a DE instructor saw the error code and said, "I see you like running in the Advanced group, but your car doesn't!" I knew it was time for a new suspension plan.

I considered various coil over kits from KW to Motion Control... but ended up settling on Ohlins Road & Track. The KW DDC kit was an early consideration, but a couple things should be clarified to those considering this route: First, the kit is marketed as "adaptive", but this is misleading. It doesn't dynamically adjust damping curves based on sensor inputs the way OEM BMW systems do, it's just adjustable via remote control. That's not adaptive, just adjustable. Any decent coil over system is adjustable, just typically not by remote control. Second, I don't think there's a true Plug and Play kit (where adjustments can be made via the car's Comfort/Sport drive mode switch) available for F chassis cars - so it's either a new KW switch that you mount, or smart phone adjustments. In terms of the value of remote adjustment... it's certainly convenient, but in reality I prefer to find a sweet spot in the suspension settings and stick with it. (Even with my OEM EDC dampers, I would always just drive in sport mode.) With the Ohlins, or many of the other high end kits for that matter, they can be set up so that they're comfortable enough for daily driving, but perform MUCH better than OEM. So to me, remote adjustability is really more of a novelty than anything else.

So the point of this very long post is really the following... the OEM adaptive EDC suspension technology is cool, but in the 3 series application, it isn't performance-focused enough for many of us, no matter what springs and software you throw at it. And in terms of aftermarket coil overs, there's no real "adaptive" option, just remote adjustability... which to me was not enough of a value add to drive which system I chose.

[Big Nodge]

Really appreciate all the replies.

DVC, super helpful post. One thing though, there is now a KW kit that operates via the OEM sport/comfort switch, they call them the plug and play DDCs.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...72saAktH8P8HAQ

It's an interesting point that these are not truly adaptive, just adjustable. I did not know that.

I'm not a track junkie like you, so it's possible the Dinan setup would be fine for me performance-wise. But it's the ride height that's getting me.

If I could paraphrase your post, you basically determined that keeling the EDC functionality wasn't worth compromising on your other priorities. That's how I've been leaning as well, with ride height key for me. With no track days in my future that's why I'm thinking KW Street Comfort.

One follow-up, did your coils include an EDC delete kit to avoid error codes, or did you code it out? I haven't fond a perfect EDC delete coding link for the F30. I've found some links for the f80 that would probably work, but I'm still researching this. Thanks again.

[Lancelot]

Is there a way to fit the f80 m3/m4 adaptive dampers on an f30? Would that work mechanically and eletronically speaking?

[kern417]

the way i think of it, many upgrades eliminate factory options. like a bbk without provisions for pad wear sensors. it's not really making the system "worse" if you upgrade to a proper suspension option. and all the cars i've had in the past didn't have adjustable dampening and i still enjoyed them. and plus you won't have to remember to switch to sport every time you start the car.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Big Nodge

Really appreciate all the replies.

DVC, super helpful post. One thing though, there is now a KW kit that operates via the OEM sport/comfort switch, they call them the plug and play DDCs.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...72saAktH8P8HAQ

It's an interesting point that these are not truly adaptive, just adjustable. I did not know that.

I'm not a track junkie like you, so it's possible the Dinan setup would be fine for me performance-wise. But it's the ride height that's getting me.

If I could paraphrase your post, you basically determined that keeling the EDC functionality wasn't worth compromising on your other priorities. That's how I've been leaning as well, with ride height key for me. With no track days in my future that's why I'm thinking KW Street Comfort.

One follow-up, did your coils include an EDC delete kit to avoid error codes, or did you code it out? I haven't fond a perfect EDC delete coding link for the F30. I've found some links for the f80 that would probably work, but I'm still researching this. Thanks again.

Thanks - glad to help!
Yes, for me the OEM adaptive dampers, even with the Dinan mods, were not quite performance-focused enough. And the Dinan springs didn't hold up in my case, so ride height became an issue. So for me, height adjustable coil overs were the answer... and it turns out I really don't miss the dynamic "adaptive" nature of the OEM system in the slightest ; )

I checked the TMS link, and they do list the Plug and Play kit as compatible with the F30... but when I read through the detailed description, it says,

...A KW button can be installed in the dash area to select among 3 pre-set shock settings (the factory EDC button remains but is deactivated). This may require modifying your trim depending on where you want the KW button to be installed...

Looks like they're calling it the "Plug and Play" kit, but it's really just the standard "EDC" kit. KW lists 2 DDC versions on their site - the Plug and Play version works with "VW Scirocco, VW Golf IV, VW Passat, BMW 3-series, and other models", but last I checked, the F chassis cars weren't among the supported 3-series models. This may have changed though - a call to KW is probably in order to determine for sure.

In terms of avoiding error codes from unplugging the OEM EDC dampers, there are a couple of hardware options (including the KW module), but I found a shop in NJ with the knowledge to code it out. I e-mailed a number of coders local to me in NJ, and all of them either insisted that it could not be done (one of whom went as far as rudely insisting that my car did not even have adaptive dampers), or admitted that they just didn't know how to do it... but a shop in CA assured me that they had done it on a couple of F30s, so I persevered until I found a local shop that would do it.



One other thing I just remembered that's worth mentioning to anyone with OEM EDC dampers who's considering going aftermarket... My BMW EDC dampers were different than other dampers (including the equivalent BMW non-EDC dampers for my car) in one very important way: the left and right dampers are different. The non-EDC dampers (and my Öhlins coil overs) have the end link mounting bracket welded on the same way, such that when the left/right dampers are mounted on opposing sides, the brackets orient forward on one side and backward on the other side. These dampers require the same "left side" end link part number for use on the left and right side. But for some reason, my EDC dampers are different - with the end link mounting bracket welded on in a mirror image from left to right, so that they orient the same direction when mounted on opposing sides... and as such, they use a different end link for the left and right sides.
I mention this because my shop and coil over manufacturer were unfamiliar with this (not many of us upgrading from EDC dampers yet, I guess), so if you receive a coil over kit like this, you (and the installer) may end up scratching your heads, and assuming that you received 2 "left side" shocks, when looked at compared to the EDC dampers. And of course my OEM right side end link did not fit - I had to scramble to find a 2nd "left side" end link to complete the installation. (I ended up ordering a pair of UUC Motorwerks adjustable end links shortly after, which are better for multiple reasons.)

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Is there a way to fit the f80 m3/m4 adaptive dampers on an f30? Would that work mechanically and eletronically speaking?

Practically speaking, I highly doubt it's feasible to get them to work electronically. Too much involved with specific damper ECUs, sensors, wiring, coding, etc.

[Big Nodge]

Damn DVC, and I thought I had researched this pretty well! So glad you stumbled into this thread. Although you keep costing me money, in the Dinan xDrive sway bar thread you pointed out that I might as well do swaybar bushing while they're in there.

Did you just do the UUC end links in the front?

Thanks again for all the info.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Big Nodge

Damn DVC, and I thought I had researched this pretty well! So glad you stumbled into this thread. Although you keep costing me money, in the Dinan xDrive sway bar thread you pointed out that I might as well do swaybar bushing while they're in there.

Did you just do the UUC end links in the front?

Thanks again for all the info.

Haha... sorry about that!

I ordered the rear end links from UUC too...

[Big Nodge]

I knew it!! I actually ran sways and end links front and rear on my last car (B8 A4) and loved it, plus the price of these is not so bad.

Thanks again, and I think this thread will serve as a great resource for others as well.

I'll let you know what I decide. I guess I need to confirm with UUC that the end links work on the 340xi.

[Big Nodge]

FYI, one thing I've discovered from browsing RealOEM is that for the 340i xDrive the two front shocks are always different part numbers regardless if the car has EDC or not. So maybe the end links aren't an issue for the xDrives.

It does look like the end links have been the same part number across the entire f30 line though, so the UUCs should fit either way.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Big Nodge

FYI, one thing I've discovered from browsing RealOEM is that for the 340i xDrive the two front shocks are always different part numbers regardless if the car has EDC or not. So maybe the end links aren't an issue for the xDrives.

It does look like the end links have been the same part number across the entire f30 line though, so the UUCs should fit either way.

Interesting...maybe it's just an xDrive thing, or maybe they've made the change with the LCI (?) Either way, I think it's better that way, because having them identical makes it impossible to orient OEM end links the same way on each side, and ideally end links should be as close to straight up and down as possible on both sides. (I was able to get both UUC adjustable end links pretty close to vertical, which is one of the reasons why I like them.)
But at any rate, Öhlins R/T front left and rights are identical, and anecdotally I've heard of this being discovered during installs of Bilsteins and KWs on EDC cars as well... So worth keeping in mind and checking into to ensure a smooth install.

[ocN55]

if you're going to run upgraded shocks, you gotta code out edc, no way around it.

I've only heard bad things about all the EDC delete modules.

[tmdals0213]

Originally Posted by ocN55

if you're going to run upgraded shocks, you gotta code out edc, no way around it.

I've only heard bad things about all the EDC delete modules.

any resources to back that up? thanks

[ocN55]

Originally Posted by tmdals0213

any resources to back that up? thanks

Anecdotal on my end. Every edc owner in my circle had a edc module that eventually malfunctioned. but ymmv

[tmdals0213]

Originally Posted by ocN55

Anecdotal on my end. Every edc owner in my circle had a edc module that eventually malfunctioned. but ymmv

im waiting on a set of kw v2 with edc delete and... now... im wondering if im SOL with trying to upgrade suspension on this car...

the soft suspension is so annoying, it sadly leaves a bitter taste because the car overall is so damn good..

[Lancelot]

Interesting reads: BMW EDC technology
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...r_control.html
Indeed it's not just about changing mode it's also adapting to the conditions

BMW chassis dynamics document (see sections about EDC)
http://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfor..._Dynamics1.pdf
You can see EDC comes with additional wheel acceleration sensors for the DSC computer

MotoIQ article about the KW DDC: they love it, and it shows the plug and play vs. Retrofit versions
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...trol--DDC.aspx

I'll try to get more info from KW or my shop regarding the continuous adapatability of their dampers (probably not the case indeed... But wouldn't that fault the DSC ECU?)

[CruzM3]

For those of you who track there car on a regular basis going with a coil over option may be more beneficial but for those of us who hit the track maybe 1-2 times a year the spring and Shockwave route seems to be a better route as its less headache trying to get a setup that works without to much hassle and cost.

[Big Nodge]

Does anyone have a link for the coding procedure for deleting EDC on the F30? I've found some stuff for the F80 and I assume it's similar, but I would love to find a nice clear DIY guide specific to the F30.

And cruz to me the main benefit of coils in this case is height adjustability and the ability to run a more modest drop than the Dinan springs. At least with the KW Street Comforts which allow for a modest drop.

Lancelot I think the DDCs look like a nice option and I would be seriously considering them, but I think the minimum drop is going to be too low for me.