[AustinTrkJunkie]

Anyone going? Already signed up to instruct and for a garage for 3 days. Turns out this will be my first event in the 340i.

The Carbotech pads I ordered for Chin event at COTA two weeks ago got here 2 days before the event and the rears did not fit, bah!

Didn't want to run mismatched pads - especially at COTA - so cancelled. Fortunately they had 18 instructors signed up and only 14 novice students so didn't leave Mark and the crew in a bind.

Link to event is here: http://msreg.com/FallTrifecta16

[JoeKixxon]

I'd like to go. This would be first track event and I want to prepare and protect the car. I'm friendly with Judy Ray at BMW of Austin and I know she can help. I'm also an active BMW CCA member so I've got that going.

It looks like novices can drive Sat/Sun. Is that right? I'd like to avoid taking Friday off work...

Thanks in advance for any info you can share for a n00b

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by JoeKixxon

I'd like to go. This would be first track event and I want to prepare and protect the car. I'm friendly with Judy Ray at BMW of Austin and I know she can help. I'm also an active BMW CCA member so I've got that going.

It looks like novices can drive Sat/Sun. Is that right? I'd like to avoid taking Friday off work...

Thanks in advance for any info you can share for a n00b

I think you can drive all 3 days, that's how it was at the last Trifecta in June, though that got sorta hosed up on Sunday as TWS had a sink hole develop at T6 and about half of the PCA people who were set for the event there ended up being admitted to our event at COTA which screwed a lot of people over (several green students didn't have an instructor Sunday, not cool). Not BMW's finest moment for scheduling by any means.

That said - and regardless of how many days you do, since it's your first track event you really won't need to do much. The F80 is stout - I've instructed half a dozen between COTA and TWS - out of the box and can take moderate tracking without baking the brakes, boiling the fluid or cupping the tires.

Will caveat that by saying that if you're aspiring to be Kimi, you might consider getting your brake fluid swapped - I'd recommend SRF - and get a second set of wheels and tires. I have seen green students cup tires and boil brake fluid by over-driving their first weekend. It's more of an outlier situation, but can happen. I've personally gotten to where I bring a student into the pits and have a convo with them if they are getting red-mist and over driving, but not all instructors do that so if you really beat on the car those are your two biggest weak points.

Honestly COTA is about the safest track you could hold a DE at. Tons of run off everywhere, and the only into a wall incidents I've seen were either in the rain and going to fast for conditions or too hot out of 18 (it's a super fast sweeper) and lose the backend and end up kissing the wall at the inside of 19.

Still would recommend track insurance, about $300 for 3 days (that's what I pay an an instructor anyway) is a nice piece of mind. It's a race track after all, stuff can - and does - happen. Look up Lockton if you are interested in that.

If there's anything else you want to know, let me know. I've already had two of my previous students from this June and back in '15 ask for me as their instructor again at this event so not sure how that will play out, but happy to give you a ride or sit in the right seat if there's time. COTA is a ton of fun!

[JoeKixxon]

Thanks for info AustinTrkJunkie and I'm confident I won't be driving hard or fast enough to boil brake fluid, etc. My goal is to enjoy the car while learning to drive skillfully. Picking the right line, shifting (MT), braking, etc. Oh, and I'll DEFINITELY buy track insurance.

I might be out of town but I'll keep in touch if I'm able to attend/drive.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by JoeKixxon

Thanks for info AustinTrkJunkie and I'm confident I won't be driving hard or fast enough to boil break fluid, etc. My goal is to enjoy the car while learning to drive skillfully. Picking the right line, shifting (MT), braking, etc. Oh, and I'll DEFINITELY buy track insurance.

I might be out of town but I'll keep in touch if I'm able to attend/drive.

That's the perfect attitude to have, can't tell you how many students come out thinking they're better than they really are, only to realize it's not as easy as it looks.
I've been tracking for over 10 years, instructing for 6+ and STILL have room to learn and improve.

[goodNIGHT]

Ill be there on Saturday only. Hopefully we'll get some dry track conditions. This rain is killing me. I'll be in the white M235i. Ill be interested in seeing your new 340 and hearing that B58

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by goodNIGHT

Ill be there on Saturday only. Hopefully we'll get some dry track conditions. This rain is killing me. I'll be in the white M235i. Ill be interested in seeing your new 340 and hearing that B58

Cool, I'll be there Friday and Sat (Maybe Sunday) and have a garage, though they haven't sent out assignments yet. Should be with a couple of other instructor buddies, one in a GT4 the other in a 993 RSR...we're all training new instructor candidates Fri/Sat. Love to play the terror student!

[goodNIGHT]

Well I got to see your car, but not you. I did get to talk to the X5M owner next to you tho- he was nice. Anyway, How did the car feel? Did it meet your expectations? And btw - you ITS mentors were always interesting to drive behind.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by goodNIGHT

Well I got to see your car, but not you. I did get to talk to the X5M owner next to you tho- he was nice. Anyway, How did the car feel? Did it meet your expectations? And btw - you ITS mentors were always interesting to drive behind.

Hah, yah, we did some pretty crazy stuff, there's one scenario where we have to see what it will take to get the ITS student to say "enough, go into the hot pits...you're driving like an azz", funny to see how different each candidate was in that regard!

As to the car, I had an interesting situation where the ITS student I was assigned had my old car, a 2011 E90 M3 (though 6sp vs DTC in my old car). I got to drive them back to back for 8 sessions Friday and Saturday and that made the differences crystal clear.

In a nutshell, the 340i pushes like crazy, even with the square set up. That lack of camber in the front is a lot of it. Also had problems in sport + putting power down between 13, 14 and 15. Lots of wheels spin. LSD would be a huge help there. I was able to give rides to a couple of friends who came out and they thought it was fast, but it's all relative to their experience.

Net is the car will be fine for intermediate/yellow run group speeds, but in the instructor group, it was slowest out there where I had been running mid-pack in the M3.

One really interesting data point on straight line speed vs. the F80, I gave one a pass right before T11 so got to essentially drag race him down the back straight, by the 150 brake marker he has only pulled about 7 car lengths on me down the entire back straight, so the 340i def has some balls!

Sorry I missed you, Tim (the X5M owner) told me someone came by. They just had our schedules pretty well packed with the ITS stuff.

[goodNIGHT]

The only really whacked out thing that i was involved in was when an its mentor signaled to pass right Before T10 and lifted. So I ended up passing on the inside of T10. I was Hoping not to get some kinda Black flag for passing in a non passing area.

Awesome and Interesting review of the car. Seems like the 3er and 2er have the same handling traits. I believe one has to be really smooth with brake/gas inputs not to induce over/and understeer. But LSD, meaty front tires with more camber would be the ticket. Meatier rear tires also good - with dsc off its also easy to fishtail out.
So only 7 car lengths after a 2/3rds mile run down the back straight?? That is pretty good. Add a MPPK and that's down to 5 lengths.

You were breaking at the 150 marker!? Damn. I started breaking a few meters before the 200 marker. Ballsy

You should give the car more credit - COTA has some big boys out there with really wide, sticky tires - and if you're hanging in there with a stock 340i - that has a lot of great things to say about the car. (And Ur driving).

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by goodNIGHT

The only really whacked out thing that i was involved in was when an its mentor signaled to pass right Before T10 and lifted. So I ended up passing on the inside of T10. I was Hoping not to get some kinda Black flag for passing in a non passing area.

Awesome and Interesting review of the car. Seems like the 3er and 2er have the same handling traits. I believe one has to be really smooth with brake/gas inputs not to induce over/and understeer. But LSD, meaty front tires with more camber would be the ticket. Meatier rear tires also good - with dsc off its also easy to fishtail out.
So only 7 car lengths after a 2/3rds mile run down the back straight?? That is pretty good. Add a MPPK and that's down to 5 lengths.

You were breaking at the 150 marker!? Damn. I started breaking a few meters before the 200 marker. Ballsy

You should give the car more credit - COTA has some big boys out there with really wide, sticky tires - and if you're hanging in there with a stock 340i - that has a lot of great things to say about the car. (And Ur driving).

Yah, we heard similar complaints from other run groups about the ITS. We get used to open passing anywhere on track so there were a lot of passes thrown at inappropriate places.

Hell, I threw a pass in the carousel between 17 and 19 and was like "why won't he take it???" Then was like, oh yah, this is blue...

As to the car, don't get me wrong, it's fine. Just totally outclassed in the Instructor or Advanced groups. Most of the hardware there is 2 door true sports cars and the drivers are solid. Hard to run with with 991's, GT3's, GT4's and McLaren's in a 340i - lol

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

In a nutshell, the 340i pushes like crazy, even with the square set up. That lack of camber in the front is a lot of it. Also had problems in sport + putting power down between 13, 14 and 15. Lots of wheels spin. LSD would be a huge help there. I was able to give rides to a couple of friends who came out and they thought it was fast, but it's all relative to their experience.

You mention running in sport+, curious if you tried DSC off and if that helped any with the understeer.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by kentgbr

You mention running in sport+, curious if you tried DSC off and if that helped any with the understeer.

Sport + turns DSC off by default, hence the fishtailing icon in the dash.

You can't drive on track - least at any real speed - in a BMW with DSC on, it's too intrusive and won't allow you to get a decent yaw rate without trying to straighten you out via the brakes.

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Sport + turns DSC off by default, hence the fishtailing icon in the dash.

You can't drive on track - least at any real speed - in a BMW with DSC on, it's too intrusive and won't allow you to get a decent yaw rate without trying to straighten you out via the brakes.

Sport+ mode activates DTC, but does not turn off DSC (at least for this model). DSC is deactivated by pressing the center console traction control button for about 5-10 secs until an orange DSC OFF warning is displayed in the dash.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Per my manual - and this link
http://cache.bmwusa.com/PDF_6117e873...e-107286b35189


Activating SPORT+:
Press button repeatedly until SPORT+ appears in the instrument cluster and
the DSC OFF indicator lamp lights up.
Indicator/warning lights:
SPORT+ is displayed in the instrument cluster. The DSC OFF indicator lamp lights up.

You can *also* turn off DSC with the DSC button, but - unless there's something I'm missing - Sports+ turns it off as well. Given I got the car totally sideways at T11 and T15, pretty sure it's all the way off

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Per my manual - and this link
http://cache.bmwusa.com/PDF_6117e873...e-107286b35189


Activating SPORT+:
Press button repeatedly until SPORT+ appears in the instrument cluster and
the DSC OFF indicator lamp lights up.
Indicator/warning lights:
SPORT+ is displayed in the instrument cluster. The DSC OFF indicator lamp lights up.

You can *also* turn off DSC with the DSC button, but - unless there's something I'm missing - Sports+ turns it off as well. Given I got the car totally sideways at T11 and T15, pretty sure it's all the way off

You're right about sport+ turning off DSC, I stand corrected. My preference is for deactivating DSC via the button as it invokes the least intrusive driving mode; DSC and DTC both inactive, standard throttle mapping, rev-matching off, sport settings for steering, suspension, and exhaust. Will try sport+ mode next time at the track - on the street, I find the throttle overly responsive with the manual trans.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by kentgbr

You're right about sport+ turning off DSC, I stand corrected. My preference is for deactivating DSC via the button as it invokes the least intrusive driving mode; DSC and DTC both inactive, standard throttle mapping, rev-matching off, sport settings for steering, suspension, and exhaust. Will try sport+ mode next time at the track - on the street, I find the throttle overly responsive with the manual trans.

Agree on the throttle being too on/off in S+, I tried running Sport and manually turning off DSC, but I could swear the suspension was a tad softer(I have EDC). Could just be the different passengers I was giving rides around COTA to changing my perspective, but went back to S+ as it seemed a little firmer.

[Araemo]

Now that you've had it on the track - do you feel that there is any lift being generated at high speed? Any unsettling as you go faster?

This is my first car in quite a while with NO spoiler at all, so I'm a bit concerned about that aspect, though I understand aerodynamic engineering has come a long way. And BMW has that verbage on the website about don't install the spoiler unless you also do the front lip, which I don't want, so I didn't get the spoiler.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by Araemo

Now that you've had it on the track - do you feel that there is any lift being generated at high speed? Any unsettling as you go faster?

This is my first car in quite a while with NO spoiler at all, so I'm a bit concerned about that aspect, though I understand aerodynamic engineering has come a long way. And BMW has that verbage on the website about don't install the spoiler unless you also do the front lip, which I don't want, so I didn't get the spoiler.

I was getting to almost 140 on the back straight and the car still felt planted, so no lift that was concerning on track. Can't say for sure past that speed.

One thing I totally forgot to bring up was the Pagid RS29's, they were awesome. This is the one aspect where the 340i was better than the old E90 M3, brakes bit harder and pulled the car down from high speed quicker and with less drama than DTC-70's on the M3. And no fade lap after lap.

I think the fact that there's an OE Brembo BBK on this car vs. stock floating calipers (with smaller pads) on the M3 made up the difference. Still was one area I came away thinking the 340i won this metric on track.

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

I think the fact that there's an OE Brembo BBK on this car vs. stock floating calipers (with smaller pads) on the M3 made up the difference. Still was one area I came away thinking the 340i won this metric on track.

Yay, that validates the fact that I treated the brembos as a major plus when comparing this car to another one.

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by kentgbr

You're right about sport+ turning off DSC, I stand corrected. My preference is for deactivating DSC via the button as it invokes the least intrusive driving mode; DSC and DTC both inactive, standard throttle mapping, rev-matching off, sport settings for steering, suspension, and exhaust. Will try sport+ mode next time at the track - on the street, I find the throttle overly responsive with the manual trans.

So, I think you guys are wrong here.. I read that part of the manual, and I agreed until I double checked what the car actually displays.

If you press the DSC button, it goes into TRACTION mode (DTC), and displays the same "DSC OFF" icon in the dash.

If you use the button to select sport+ mode, it also flashes TRACTION in the instrument cluster, and displays the DSC OFF icon in the dash.

If you instead hold down the DSC-Off button until it turns off, you get a different message (not TRACTION), and the same icon lights up.

I think Sport+ only activates DTC automatically, not full DSC off.

The way to test would be to take the car to a skidpad or empty snow-covered parking lot and see how it behaves in each mode. I'm definitely going to take mine to a snow-covered parking lot once we have them, just to find out how it handles in the snow in general, so I if I remember I'll do that test too.

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by Araemo

So, I think you guys are wrong here.. I read that part of the manual, and I agreed until I double checked what the car actually displays.

If you press the DSC button, it goes into TRACTION mode (DTC), and displays the same "DSC OFF" icon in the dash.

If you use the button to select sport+ mode, it also flashes TRACTION in the instrument cluster, and displays the DSC OFF icon in the dash.

If you instead hold down the DSC-Off button until it turns off, you get a different message (not TRACTION), and the same icon lights up.

I think Sport+ only activates DTC automatically, not full DSC off.

The way to test would be to take the car to a skidpad or empty snow-covered parking lot and see how it behaves in each mode. I'm definitely going to take mine to a snow-covered parking lot once we have them, just to find out how it handles in the snow in general, so I if I remember I'll do that test too.

I was referring to the same holding down of the DSC-OFF button that you describe above. What part of the description do you think is inaccurate?