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      11-18-2016, 12:42 PM   #1
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Er Vs Vm Catless Downpipes

Hey guys,

Just wondering about the differences between these two products. The VM is a 1/2 inch smaller at the turbo and through the pipe until it steps down to meet the exhaust. I don't know if that makes a ton of difference the 1/2 inch. There are some very solid performance gain dyno sheets with the VM product.

The ER is a little bigger, and seems like they take a little extra time to make it look a little fancier in the finish and smoothed out welds.

Is it worth the extra $100? Has anyone had a comparison test between the 2 DP's ? Is there a power difference?

Let me know what your opinions are guys.

Thanks so much.
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      11-18-2016, 01:11 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
Hey guys,

Just wondering about the differences between these two products. The VM is a 1/2 inch smaller at the turbo and through the pipe until it steps down to meet the exhaust. I don't know if that makes a ton of difference the 1/2 inch. There are some very solid performance gain dyno sheets with the VM product.

The ER is a little bigger, and seems like they take a little extra time to make it look a little fancier in the finish and smoothed out welds.

Is it worth the extra $100? Has anyone had a comparison test between the 2 DP's ? Is there a power difference?

Let me know what your opinions are guys.

Thanks so much.
I know going from a 3 inch to 4 inch downpipe on my other boosted car made a world of difference, but that's a different motor (inline 6 as well). The fact that it's 1/2 inch bigger and that it sounds a little deeper is what swayed my decision.
The vendors on this site are competitive and offer great prices in my opinion.
And right now n54tuning has it $399.01 shipped!!!! (that also helped a lot with my decision)
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      11-18-2016, 01:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
Hey guys,

Just wondering about the differences between these two products. The VM is a 1/2 inch smaller at the turbo and through the pipe until it steps down to meet the exhaust. I don't know if that makes a ton of difference the 1/2 inch. There are some very solid performance gain dyno sheets with the VM product.

The ER is a little bigger, and seems like they take a little extra time to make it look a little fancier in the finish and smoothed out welds.

Is it worth the extra $100? Has anyone had a comparison test between the 2 DP's ? Is there a power difference?

Let me know what your opinions are guys.

Thanks so much.
I doubt you will get an end user comparing the two as it would be a lot of work and difficult to do a back to back. The ER is probably themes popular. The VM is a new player to the market and their pipe looks good as well. Honestly you can't go wrong with either but with a turbo car usually bigger is better for downpipes as you want as much volume as possible.

On the N54 the 3" downpipes made significantly more power then the 2.5" versions, which is why you no longer see 2.5" pipes for sale as all manufacturers went to 3"

Mike
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      11-18-2016, 02:13 PM   #4
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CG precision makes a 5 inch downpipe for the B58 engine
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      11-18-2016, 02:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houbmw View Post
CG precision makes a 5 inch downpipe for the B58 engine
They only have the 5 inch catted downpipe right?
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      11-18-2016, 02:47 PM   #6
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They only have the 5 inch catted downpipe right?
Thats all I could find on their site and the google.
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      11-18-2016, 03:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
Thats all I could find on their site and the google.
A catted downpipe defeats the purpose even if it's bigger doesn't it?!?!. On a evo 8 I had with a fp green, aftermarket catted to no cat was a massive difference. And these catted pipes get pretty $$$. Just a thought
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      11-19-2016, 12:29 AM   #8
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There isn't a benefit from going larger than 3" on a car that makes less than 700whp. Our B58 downpipe is 4.5" simply because it fits the flange but they all eventually merge down to the stock 3" mid pipe. The smoothest transition from big to small will benefit you the most in terms of flow.
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      11-19-2016, 10:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roki187 View Post
A catted downpipe defeats the purpose even if it's bigger doesn't it?!?!. On a evo 8 I had with a fp green, aftermarket catted to no cat was a massive difference. And these catted pipes get pretty $$$. Just a thought
In general performance catted offer 50% of the performance of the catless equivalent.

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      11-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
In general performance catted offer 50% of the performance of the catless equivalent.

Mike
Thanks for the info. Is there a way to get rid of the check engine light without a jb4? Like an O2 sensor adapter?
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      11-19-2016, 03:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30m View Post
Thanks for the info. Is there a way to get rid of the check engine light without a jb4? Like an O2 sensor adapter?
I don't know if this works for sure on BMWs but on my Audi S4 that I sold a few years back and on my 14 GT500, if you use an O2 spacer to take the O2 sensor out of the fast moving exhaust gas flow, it didn't trip a CEL.

One of the tuners or vendors should be able to tell you whether that will work on our cars. Good question for someone from BMS.
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      11-19-2016, 03:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30m View Post
Thanks for the info. Is there a way to get rid of the check engine light without a jb4? Like an O2 sensor adapter?
Not sure there is an o2 sim out for the B58 at the moment. I think the JB is the only solution at the moment.

Also as a note, Catted will throw the CEL like the catless eventually.

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      11-19-2016, 03:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
I don't know if this works for sure on BMWs but on my Audi S4 that I sold a few years back and on my 14 GT500, if you use an O2 spacer to take the O2 sensor out of the fast moving exhaust gas flow, it didn't trip a CEL.

One of the tuners or vendors should be able to tell you whether that will work on our cars. Good question for someone from BMS.
o2 spacers are not a good idea and rarely work properly / reliably on this platform.

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      11-19-2016, 03:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
I don't know if this works for sure on BMWs but on my Audi S4 that I sold a few years back and on my 14 GT500, if you use an O2 spacer to take the O2 sensor out of the fast moving exhaust gas flow, it didn't trip a CEL.

One of the tuners or vendors should be able to tell you whether that will work on our cars. Good question for someone from BMS.
It will work on any car (just get the better quality one so it won't rust). Post cat 02 is for cat efficiency only. I've used the extender on 40+ cars and it worked 100% of the time for catless downpipes. "Off road use only"
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      11-19-2016, 03:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
o2 spacers are not a good idea and rarely work properly / reliably on this platform.

Mike
Mike,

my gt500 is 778whp, I have an additional wideband and data log it a lot because I drag race it.

I have never had a single blip in timing, fuel or boost with the O2 extenders. I know that BMW's ECU may be a little more advanced then Ford's is, but I have to think they are similar when it comes to O2 sensors (both companies now use wide band sensors in their exhausts).

I actually recently downloaded a new file for my SCT finally (tuning tool for GT500) that flashes out the CEL code for O2 sensors. So I literally have to remove the spacers whenever I get a chance.
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      11-19-2016, 03:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roki187 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
I don't know if this works for sure on BMWs but on my Audi S4 that I sold a few years back and on my 14 GT500, if you use an O2 spacer to take the O2 sensor out of the fast moving exhaust gas flow, it didn't trip a CEL.

One of the tuners or vendors should be able to tell you whether that will work on our cars. Good question for someone from BMS.
It will work on any car (just get the better quality one so it won't rust). Post cat 02 is for cat efficiency only. I've used the extender on 40+ cars and it worked 100% of the time for catless downpipes. "Off road use only"
I think I saw a post of yours in another thread about the o2 extender from amazon. Is that the one that you use on your cars? As long as it wouldn't mess with the ecu, I would be willing to take a chance if it working since it's so cheap.
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      11-19-2016, 05:22 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by f30m View Post
I think I saw a post of yours in another thread about the o2 extender from amazon. Is that the one that you use on your cars? As long as it wouldn't mess with the ecu, I would be willing to take a chance if it working since it's so cheap.
I've collected a bunch over the years and really use what I have. I'd much rather have it done in the tune but unfortunately not all tunes have that option.
I've ran the extender on my Mercedes, Honda, Infiniti q45, bunch of maximas, evos, mustangs for years without a single issue. Some early cheap ones rusted and had to get replaced but the better quality lasted a long time. And winters here get brutal (salt wise)....... It worked for me that's all I'm saying. I've also spent a bunch on garbage simulators and what not that failed and was nothing but a waste of $$$$. To each is own
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      11-19-2016, 05:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
Mike,

my gt500 is 778whp, I have an additional wideband and data log it a lot because I drag race it.

I have never had a single blip in timing, fuel or boost with the O2 extenders. I know that BMW's ECU may be a little more advanced then Ford's is, but I have to think they are similar when it comes to O2 sensors (both companies now use wide band sensors in their exhausts).

I actually recently downloaded a new file for my SCT finally (tuning tool for GT500) that flashes out the CEL code for O2 sensors. So I literally have to remove the spacers whenever I get a chance.
But you will not pass emissions with the cel delete as the readiness codes won't pass (unless something has changed recently) I passed emissions running c16 and a hks 280 cam with no issues at all. Also in my 03 termi running 110 unleaded with long tubes.....not saying it's the best but surly the least $$$$
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      11-19-2016, 11:10 PM   #19
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From the Dyno results that were posted both DP, it does not look like there is any benefit in terms of power with the extra .5" ... They both get really good increase BTW
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      11-21-2016, 11:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roki187 View Post
But you will not pass emissions with the cel delete as the readiness codes won't pass (unless something has changed recently) I passed emissions running c16 and a hks 280 cam with no issues at all. Also in my 03 termi running 110 unleaded with long tubes.....not saying it's the best but surly the least $$$$
Who's your tuner? My tuner gave me a map that actually passes a sniffer test even without the cats. You may be able to ask your tuner for that.
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      11-21-2016, 01:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
Who's your tuner? My tuner gave me a map that actually passes a sniffer test even without the cats. You may be able to ask your tuner for that.
That's awesome dude!!!! Technology moves so fast it crazy what they can do with these cars now. I got rid of all my cars other than my 2j Nissan. It's a obd I
So no emissions for me....on a side note I had a little run in with a beautiful Porsche Panamera on a highway ramp (2 lane with a looooooong straight) today, highly doubt it was a turbo as I put a bus length on him pretty quick. His face expression was priceless!!!!!!!
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      11-23-2016, 08:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
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That's awesome dude!!!! Technology moves so fast it crazy what they can do with these cars now. I got rid of all my cars other than my 2j Nissan. It's a obd I
So no emissions for me....on a side note I had a little run in with a beautiful Porsche Panamera on a highway ramp (2 lane with a looooooong straight) today, highly doubt it was a turbo as I put a bus length on him pretty quick. His face expression was priceless!!!!!!!
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My next car is going to be Italian with a running horse on it. That one is going to take a while since the Porsche tapped me out.
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