[n00bim2015]

If you get the car maintained right can you keep your bmw running smooth till 100k miles or 10 years without major problems.

I see a lot of old BMWs on the road and I assume they drive well enough.

I hear a lot of random things become defective like the air conditioning windows etc.

In fact I've had one of my speaker have a blown tweeter that got replaced under warranty. But I don't consider this a BMW problem just third party part defect


So really are BMWs worse than most Japanese cars in terms of long term lastability?

[aigochamaloh]

Sub'd for comments from owners, this is my only fear getting into our two new BMWs.

Our Toyotas would run forever on essentially only oil changes. We sold our 2001 Sienna van with 300K miles on it, and all I ever did was change the engine oil and timing belt/water pump. Original engine/transmission (no tranny fluid changes).

Our 2007 Camry was totaled in an accident with 270K with only oil changes, never changed the coolant or transmission fluid or anything. Timing chain on the 2AZ engine so no timing belts to change.

Same with my Subaru Legacy, just oil changes and timing belt.

[HighlandPete]

I've been with BMW a long time and do have to say they could be a lot more durable. In fact that is my experience with German cars. Great to have and drive, but a bit fragile. So you buy with eyes wide open and expect to have a few bills along the way, warranties are key to help control the cost.

My present BMW, (F11 wagon) is having a new rear air spring on Tuesday and rear auxiliary shock absorbers (bump stop dust cover/gaiter). The air spring is failing (random drops due to perished rubber air bag) and the dust covers on the bump stops have disintegrated.

Would be no big deal on a 150,000 mile car, but at 37,000 miles! BMW could do far better, as my issue is common on the 5-series wagon and the 5GT.

I've used the example as it is current, but could fill a page with premature failure of parts, for BMWs I have owned, including an engine replacement at 65k miles.

[eluded]

BMW and reliable in the same sentence

[Kabrich]

One only needs to look at the names of autos at the top of the JD Powers Vehile Dependability Study to answer the question.

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/V...ategory/843ENG

http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study...emium-Car/1101

[CIWS]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

One only needs to look at the names of autos at the top of the JD Powers Vehile Dependability Study to answer the question.

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/V...ategory/843ENG

http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study...emium-Car/1101

J.D. Power is a good source of info.



But to answer the OPs question, it depends upon which brand of "Japanese" car you want to compare to. Almost without exception the best brand overall for reliability (and is from Japan) is Lexus. But you could also compare BMW against another car maker from Japan, Nissan, and see that BMW is actually on par or a little better overall.

http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study...by-Make/846ENG

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by aigochamaloh

Sub'd for comments from owners, this is my only fear getting into our two new BMWs.

If you want Toyota type neglect and reliability, stay away from German cars.

Originally Posted by aigochamaloh

Our Toyotas would run forever on essentially only oil changes. We sold our 2001 Sienna van with 300K miles on it, and all I ever did was change the engine oil and timing belt/water pump. Original engine/transmission (no tranny fluid changes).

That is great, it is known that Toyotas to certain extent can be neglected and they will run OK. Not changing the transmission oil for 300K miles is plain neglect. I have a Toyota product and religiously change the transmission oil and why not since it is pretty cheap and it only happens every 60 to 100K miles.

My Toyota product is half way to 300K and the front diff is leaking a bit. I am certainly not neglecting that. I will keep and eye on it until I have time to reseal the front diff cover, which is a pain since the engine is in front of it. But I also change the diff fluid every 30 to 60K. The same vehicle recently had the steering rack rebuilt (Very common for Toyotas with that chasis to have the right side of the rack leak at around 100K, a kit is sold by Toyota to fix it).

Originally Posted by aigochamaloh

Our 2007 Camry was totaled in an accident with 270K with only oil changes, never changed the coolant or transmission fluid or anything. Timing chain on the 2AZ engine so no timing belts to change.

Again, you got lucky! I change the coolant religiously in my cars, perhaps because I have heard horror stories from the 90 with some German and Japanese cars self destructing because coolant system neglect.

Originally Posted by aigochamaloh

Same with my Subaru Legacy, just oil changes and timing belt.

All I hear is neglect! You can do the same with the BMW and you might get lucky and it will last you post 100K with minor issues.

[TodmordenLad]

To answer the OPs question, Yes probably, but I know what I'd rather drive

[IndotagSwizz]

is this for real?

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by n00bim2015

So really are BMWs worse than most Japanese cars in terms of long term lastability?

No. A BMW is better engineered and constructed than most Japanese cars. For the price it should be. If you're comparing BMW to Lexus the answer is yes. It's the cost paid for a higher level of performance.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

No. A BMW is better engineered and constructed than most Japanese cars. For the price it should be. If you're comparing BMW to Lexus the answer is yes. It's the cost paid for a higher level of performance.

Actually Lexus, Toyotas and Scions (all under the same Corporate umbrella) are more reliable than BMW. Nissan, etc al, not to the level of the Toyota family.

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

No. A BMW is better engineered and constructed than most Japanese cars. For the price it should be. If you're comparing BMW to Lexus the answer is yes. It's the cost paid for a higher level of performance.

There is no truth to this!

[AGONXF30]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

Actually Lexus, Toyotas and Scions (all under the same Corporate umbrella) are more reliable than BMW. Nissan, etc al, not to the level of the Toyota family.

There is SOME truth to this.

I short it depends! We have a Lexus and it is been pretty good, but it has not been trouble free.

Transmission at 66K miles (Lexus Warranty, which is great extending to 70K)
Rack and pinion at 115K (Rebuilt as it stated leaking at 105K and it is common problem with the chasis affecting Highlanders and Camrys and it is a well documented problem)
Dash board need replacing (Lexus recall)
Evaporating drain plug clogged damaging the carpets.
Front diff is now leaking some oil.

So as we can see there are some problems and these are not wear and tear items.

Also Lexus has the worst navigation system in the premium/luxury market. (No a reliability issue)

I am religious with the maintenance.

[HotTea69]

Having owned two Japanese cars in the past, (Toyota and Lexus) I have to say that BMW requires a lot more care and maintenance. With both my Toyota and Lexus, as previous owners have mentioned, they pretty much only require very simple maintenance such as oil change, coolant, water pump, Etc. I never had anything major like electrical or engine issues.

While they are overall more reliable, the driving pleasure and experience is night and day.

[HotTea69]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

No. A BMW is better engineered and constructed than most Japanese cars. For the price it should be. If you're comparing BMW to Lexus the answer is yes. It's the cost paid for a higher level of performance.

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

There is no truth to this!

Agreed with AGONXF30, BMW is far less reliable. I guess to put in to perspective. The E9x had HPFP, and the F3x charge pipe may shatter even on an fully stock car. These are all FACTORY OEM STOCK parts that are breaking and leaving you stranded on the side of the road. Can you say the same would happen to a Japanese car?

As a consumer, I shouldn't have to "Upgrade" My factory parts especially if I'm paying a premium.

[BimmerBoomer]

I used to keep them for up to 300k km.. I think my record for BMW is 180k for my 2001 E46 M3. Another bone I have to pick with BMW in recent years is that they don't deal with chronic problems at all well. I had a battery/power management problem on my 2010 M3 coupe that it took them two years to solve, and I've had a rattle in the driver's side window regulator in my current 435i xDrive for two years now. The dealer has had the car five times to solve the problem.

[RoundelM3]

I've owned both types of cars. I've never had an "unreliable" BMW, and any issues with the 4 I've owned (2 E46, 1 E92, 1 F30) and 3 my wife has owned (1 E46, 1 E88, 1 F23) have been taken care of quickly and, in most cases, at zero cost. I've never been "stranded" by any of our BMWs. By contrast, I had an Acura that required a new automatic transmission within 6 months of owning it. Late-model BMWs have become increasingly complex, as have the Japanese makes, and that increases the chances of having issues, particularly with electronics. The simpler the car, the less chance of breakdowns. But I'm not going to drive some snoozemobile because I'm paranoid about "reliability". Remembering the cars from the 50s, 60s, and especially the 70s, there is far less maintenance required on today's cars than back then. Even the 80s and 90s cars were not without their problems or frequent maintenance requirements.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer

Another bone I have to pick with BMW in recent years is that they don't deal with chronic problems at all well. I had a battery/power management problem on my 2010 M3 coupe that it took them two years to solve, and I've had a rattle in the driver's side window regulator in my current 435i xDrive for two years now. The dealer has had the car five times to solve the problem.

OMG so much this! Our E53 X5 went through about 10 window regulators over the course of 10 years of ownership. My E46 330i went through about 6-8 window regulators over 12 years.

The replacement E70 X5 went through 3 a/c evaporators during the 4 year warranty and now in the 5th year of ownership needs another one.

Some bean counter looked at the cost of designing a better replacement part vs paying out frequent warranty claims and decided to just pay the warranty claims and to hell with owners post-warranty.

[DD335i]

Just this past month had to get towed into the dealer twice on my 2 year old 39k Mile 335.

Charge pipe broke first time

Fuel pump went the second.

Not ecstatic about it but I guess that's really the only work I've needed to get done, besides maintenance.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by HotTea69

These are all FACTORY OEM STOCK parts that are breaking and leaving you stranded on the side of the road. Can you say the same would happen to a Japanese car?

Yep. Every car make has sites devoted to those complaining about the problems they have had with their cars. That includes Lexus. For instance:
https://lexus.pissedconsumer.com/

Brand loyalty is a pretty good indicator of how satisfied owners are with their cars. In the luxury car segment Mercedes is #1, Lexus #2, BMW #3. The next ranked Japanese brands are Infiniti at #9, Acura #10.

[aigochamaloh]

Originally Posted by AGONXF30

If you want Toyota type neglect and reliability, stay away from German cars.



That is great, it is known that Toyotas to certain extent can be neglected and they will run OK. Not changing the transmission oil for 300K miles is plain neglect. I have a Toyota product and religiously change the transmission oil and why not since it is pretty cheap and it only happens every 60 to 100K miles.

My Toyota product is half way to 300K and the front diff is leaking a bit. I am certainly not neglecting that. I will keep and eye on it until I have time to reseal the front diff cover, which is a pain since the engine is in front of it. But I also change the diff fluid every 30 to 60K. The same vehicle recently had the steering rack rebuilt (Very common for Toyotas with that chasis to have the right side of the rack leak at around 100K, a kit is sold by Toyota to fix it).



Again, you got lucky! I change the coolant religiously in my cars, perhaps because I have heard horror stories from the 90 with some German and Japanese cars self destructing because coolant system neglect.



All I hear is neglect! You can do the same with the BMW and you might get lucky and it will last you post 100K with minor issues.

I would never do that to a BMW, stigma is too great.

Sienna, camry, legacy, all were great cars. I guess I should say wear items were replaced as necessary. Tires, brakes, brake fluid, etc. Coolant changed with water pumps at timing belt change. Transmission/different fluids and other stuff, I have uoa saying they are fine. For example, I used to religiously change oil every 3k miles. I eventually went with 12k oci on my legacy. The wear numbers were simply the same regardless up to that point, even on regular conventional oil.

However, my parents newer rav4, piece of crap engine. Poor oiling, nasty dry cold starts, they just don't build them like they used to. As cars get more complex, there are definitely a lot more things to break.

We shall see how the BMWs fare with regular maintenence. My highest worry is electrical stuff.

[chuckles01]

Originally Posted by n00bim2015

If you get the car maintained right can you keep your bmw running smooth till 100k miles or 10 years without major problems.

I see a lot of old BMWs on the road and I assume they drive well enough.

I hear a lot of random things become defective like the air conditioning windows etc.

In fact I've had one of my speaker have a blown tweeter that got replaced under warranty. But I don't consider this a BMW problem just third party part defect


So really are BMWs worse than most Japanese cars in terms of long term lastability?

My folks have a 18 year old Lexus (forget the mileage by it's quite a bit, near 200k) and the only things they've had to replace were a power steering hose, door lock, and AC fan. Starts and drives like day one, which is pretty amazing.

Prior to that they had a 1988 Opel Omega (overseas). Not quite a BMW caliber car, but it had tons of minor electrical issues. The major components were fine, however.

Personally, I've had two Japanese cars (a Maxima and a 6-speed v6 Accord Coupe). I've had way more issues in either car than my F30. Whereas I got the Maxima used, the Accord was new but parts of the transmission had to be replaced 3 times in 3 years (known manufacturer defect, so there was a TSB for it), a myriad of interior rattles and loose parts, and finally, the engine died at only 72k miles. The car was always carefully driven and maintained. *shrug*

So far I'm really happy with my F30. I've had a check engine light come on very early on, and they replaced the charcoal filter due to it causing the fuel pump to prematurely pop, but other than that the car has been problem free. No rattles (except that creaking moonroof), so fingers crossed it stays this way for a while. I do only have about 25k miles though.

I guess what my experience tells me is that I'm sure it probably varies with specific models (and sometimes luck of the draw) as it seems like some BMW owners have virtually no issues, and some people with Japanese cars sometimes experience their fair share of problems.