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      01-21-2017, 01:30 PM   #1
sicmadek
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Alignment

When you fellow members get an alignment does the place use sandbags like bmw?
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      01-21-2017, 04:18 PM   #2
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my BMW dealer claims they don't use sand bags when doing the alignment.
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      01-21-2017, 04:31 PM   #3
sicmadek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsk1610 View Post
my BMW dealer claims they don't use sand bags when doing the alignment.
First problem was finding a rack my car would go on. When i found one it would they claimed they didnt have the sand bags to do it properly. I asked why cant i just sit in the car while you do it?
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      01-22-2017, 04:25 PM   #4
sicmadek
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So i had the car aligned today and everything is good except the front camber. I understand there is no factory adjustment for that. The guy said it might cause the car to pull a little. So the car does pull to the right but not badly. What do i do?
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      01-22-2017, 07:46 PM   #5
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Tell me what looks off please
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      01-22-2017, 09:28 PM   #6
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Red = Off (not within spec.)
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      01-22-2017, 09:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by kenwelch View Post
Red = Off (not within spec.)
Duh...he set the rear like that on purpose because he said its better for drag racing
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      01-24-2017, 12:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Duh...he set the rear like that on purpose because he said its better for drag racing
An easy change would have been to reset the specs during the setup of the alignment to match the goal (drag racing) then it would "appear" to be correct. You gave us no indication you intended to use alternate specs. I assumed that you were new to reading the alignment sheet based on your question, sorry.
The problem is the front caster split from right to left...But you already know that.
Follow the TIS directions to correct.

The negative rear camber should help reduce the tire contact patch and reduce traction on the drag strip. Good luck.
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      01-24-2017, 07:00 AM   #9
sicmadek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwelch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Duh...he set the rear like that on purpose because he said its better for drag racing
An easy change would have been to reset the specs during the setup of the alignment to match the goal (drag racing) then it would "appear" to be correct. You gave us no indication you intended to use alternate specs. I assumed that you were new to reading the alignment sheet based on your question, sorry.
The problem is the front caster split from right to left...But you already know that.
Follow the TIS directions to correct.

The negative rear camber should help reduce the tire contact patch and reduce traction on the drag strip. Good luck.
In no way did you contribute to the question
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      01-24-2017, 10:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwelch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Duh...he set the rear like that on purpose because he said its better for drag racing
An easy change would have been to reset the specs during the setup of the alignment to match the goal (drag racing) then it would "appear" to be correct. You gave us no indication you intended to use alternate specs. I assumed that you were new to reading the alignment sheet based on your question, sorry.
The problem is the front caster split from right to left...But you already know that.
Follow the TIS directions to correct.

The negative rear camber should help reduce the tire contact patch and reduce traction on the drag strip. Good luck.
In no way did you contribute to the question
Sure insult someone that clearly knows more than you on the topic. His response was spot on, you asked for help and then you get mad at his response. Brilliant. I'm sure people will line up to help you now.
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      01-24-2017, 10:36 AM   #11
sicmadek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwelch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Duh...he set the rear like that on purpose because he said its better for drag racing
An easy change would have been to reset the specs during the setup of the alignment to match the goal (drag racing) then it would "appear" to be correct. You gave us no indication you intended to use alternate specs. I assumed that you were new to reading the alignment sheet based on your question, sorry.
The problem is the front caster split from right to left...But you already know that.
Follow the TIS directions to correct.

The negative rear camber should help reduce the tire contact patch and reduce traction on the drag strip. Good luck.
In no way did you contribute to the question
Sure insult someone that clearly knows more than you on the topic. His response was spot on, you asked for help and then you get mad at his response. Brilliant. I'm sure people will line up to help you now.
Stating that red is not good is not helping. Him being a arrogant douche is not helping either.
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      01-24-2017, 11:44 AM   #12
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Drag setup with camber ? lol positive camber maybe so when the car "squats" wheels whould be perfectly straight.

How much you're lowered ? I guess too much
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      01-24-2017, 11:44 AM   #13
sicmadek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_335 View Post
Drag setup with camber ? lol positive camber maybe so when the car "squats" wheels whould be perfectly straight.

How much you're lowered ? I guess too much
H&r super sports
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      01-25-2017, 06:34 PM   #14
kenwelch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Stating that red is not good is not helping. Him being a arrogant douche is not helping either.
It seams that I have pushed the wrong button. You have lost it over my answers when I was trying to help. From your question: “Tell me what looks off please” it looked like you were asking for help for a street car and no indication about the Drag Racing.
I then provided more detail about what is wrong with your alignment, which you also felt that “no way did you contribute to the question”.

I had no way of knowing your experience level or understanding of the alignment readings….you were asking for input.
I also understand that you might not realize that I brought my experience to your problem with the desire to assist. So let me qualify my answers.

I taught Automotive Technology classes from 1973 to 2015 at the college (part-time) and high school levels (full-time). I have taught students how to use the alignment equipment that is in current use during that time (and the old methods from the 70’s). As an instructor I have attended hundreds of automotive update courses provided by many vehicle manufacturers including BMW NA. I was a multiple ASE Master Certified Technician and have my name on record in the Automotive Hall of Fame for that status. I have not continued my ASE certifications in retirement….my wife doesn’t require it.

I began drag racing in 1968 and have hundreds of runs mostly at OCIR (Orange County International Raceway, which is gone). I had the opportunity in the early 70’s to campaign a SS/DA 1970 Hemi Challenger in division 7 which for a time held the NHRA National Record for ET and Speed. I was off to student teaching and teaching 3 classes as a grad student at CSU Long Beach requiring that I leave the driver’s seat to get my career started. I also had a street 1968 Dart GTS 340 that ran 13.13 at 110 mph (in the late 60’s).

I have had over 6000 students that been enrolled in the Automotive classes and many have raised their hands with a question or two. I have always enjoyed helping students and forum members with their questions and didn’t give up when they were struggling to understand. So here I am again trying to help you.

Unfortunately the alignment technician did not help your front right pull or make a rear traction improvement.

1. There is a camber change possibility for you cross camber problem, but requires additional parts and labor. Your car is near the 0.5 degree max for cross camber (left to right side difference). The front Left side could be corrected closer to right readings which should solve the pull. Remember there are other problems that can cause the vehicle to pull, from simple tire pressure to dragging brakes on one side and even suspension damage. You alignment printout does not show readings (SAI) that would be helpful for diagnosing damaged suspension components. Because this is not a brand new vehicle there is the possibility that damage could be the cause or even miss assembly of parts after the changing the springs.
You can see another forum member post for a complete printout example here:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1340242

From the manual “Camber correction swivel bearing are used to correct the camber values by ±30 minutes. To be used only if the camber tolerance values are exceeded and undershot”
There are three different swivel bearings available. You can locate the needed correct part number after identifying the number on your current bearing. Then using RealOEM.com you can look up your specific vehicle based on VIN and locate the part in front suspension section. There are other methods also. Example Camber Plates.

2. Your rear traction would be improved on the drag strip by setting the rear camber to zero degrees which will allow more tire contact patch. Without drag specific tires you will unlikely have much rear squat that would change the camber much from the zero setting. You could get someone to video the tire to rear wheel arch at launch to analyze the height change. Then back on the alignment machine you can load the rear suspension to the launch height and check the rear camber. You can use tie-downs to load the chassis on the rack to verify where the camber goes under a load. You might even need a static positive rear camber to achieve zero camber at launch.
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      01-25-2017, 06:50 PM   #15
sicmadek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwelch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Stating that red is not good is not helping. Him being a arrogant douche is not helping either.
It seams that I have pushed the wrong button. You have lost it over my answers when I was trying to help. From your question: Tell me what looks off please it looked like you were asking for help for a street car and no indication about the Drag Racing.
I then provided more detail about what is wrong with your alignment, which you also felt that no way did you contribute to the question.

I had no way of knowing your experience level or understanding of the alignment readings.you were asking for input.
I also understand that you might not realize that I brought my experience to your problem with the desire to assist. So let me qualify my answers.

I taught Automotive Technology classes from 1973 to 2015 at the college (part-time) and high school levels (full-time). I have taught students how to use the alignment equipment that is in current use during that time (and the old methods from the 70s). As an instructor I have attended hundreds of automotive update courses provided by many vehicle manufacturers including BMW NA. I was a multiple ASE Master Certified Technician and have my name on record in the Automotive Hall of Fame for that status. I have not continued my ASE certifications in retirement.my wife doesnt require it.

I began drag racing in 1968 and have hundreds of runs mostly at OCIR (Orange County International Raceway, which is gone). I had the opportunity in the early 70s to campaign a SS/DA 1970 Hemi Challenger in division 7 which for a time held the NHRA National Record for ET and Speed. I was off to student teaching and teaching 3 classes as a grad student at CSU Long Beach requiring that I leave the drivers seat to get my career started. I also had a street 1968 Dart GTS 340 that ran 13.13 at 110 mph (in the late 60s).

I have had over 6000 students that been enrolled in the Automotive classes and many have raised their hands with a question or two. I have always enjoyed helping students and forum members with their questions and didnt give up when they were struggling to understand. So here I am again trying to help you.

Unfortunately the alignment technician did not help your front right pull or make a rear traction improvement.

1. There is a camber change possibility for you cross camber problem, but requires additional parts and labor. Your car is near the 0.5 degree max for cross camber (left to right side difference). The front Left side could be corrected closer to right readings which should solve the pull. Remember there are other problems that can cause the vehicle to pull, from simple tire pressure to dragging brakes on one side and even suspension damage. You alignment printout does not show readings (SAI) that would be helpful for diagnosing damaged suspension components. Because this is not a brand new vehicle there is the possibility that damage could be the cause or even miss assembly of parts after the changing the springs.
You can see another forum member post for a complete printout example here:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1340242

From the manual Camber correction swivel bearing are used to correct the camber values by 30 minutes. To be used only if the camber tolerance values are exceeded and undershot
There are three different swivel bearings available. You can locate the needed correct part number after identifying the number on your current bearing. Then using RealOEM.com you can look up your specific vehicle based on VIN and locate the part in front suspension section. There are other methods also. Example Camber Plates.

2. Your rear traction would be improved on the drag strip by setting the rear camber to zero degrees which will allow more tire contact patch. Without drag specific tires you will unlikely have much rear squat that would change the camber much from the zero setting. You could get someone to video the tire to rear wheel arch at launch to analyze the height change. Then back on the alignment machine you can load the rear suspension to the launch height and check the rear camber. You can use tie-downs to load the chassis on the rack to verify where the camber goes under a load. You might even need a static positive rear camber to achieve zero camber at launch.
Its been fixed
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