[capo180]

Kinda useless comparison for me but figured I'd post it.. That lap time set by the boxster S puts it in some pretty crazy territory.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

[No Boost]

Jesus H Christ....leave it to Lieberman and Cassima to once again, shit all over the Roundel. Cassima says it feels rubbery and disconnected yet throughout his 13 minute Ignition video, he was smitten with the M2. Flip flop much? At least Carlos is back with MT. Without him (and Randy's driving skills), the entire operation would be nothing more than Jalopnik lite.

[jaykoolzboy]

My disagreement on the article aside, the amount of love for Fiata receiving from MT is just unreal and unprecedented. Wonder what's the deal there.

[ClothSeats]

V6 1LE ahead of M2?

"This isn't even my final form."

[King_Slayer]

5th place out of 6?! Are these guys on shrooms while driving?

[BruceM]

Hmmmm. Abarth or M2....? I am torn. Not.

[redux]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Jesus H Christ....leave it to Lieberman and Cassima to once again, shit all over the Roundel. Cassima says it feels rubbery and disconnected yet throughout his 13 minute Ignition video, he was smitten with the M2. Flip flop much? At least Carlos is back with MT. Without him (and Randy's driving skills), the entire operation would be nothing more than Jalopnik lite.

It's not shitting on the roundel or a flip flop, it's the difference between an isolated review and a comparison test. Nothing make faults shine like a group test with multiple class of vehicles. You're shitting on motortrend for having an a difference of opinion based on the actually driving of said vehicles versus yours with only the m2. I think that makes you nothing more than a fanboy.....

[johnnydad]

I don't really disagree with the comments on the cars above that I've driven - M2, 86 and Fiata - and I did think the Abarth was a great package from a pure wind-it-out-and-enjoy-the-feedback angle. The M2 is indeed more muffled, I suppose rubbery, and the steering is certainly more anaesthetised. And its balance is less transparent at sane speeds, it weighs a heap more, has inferior visibility and is larger and higher so I'm not that surprised the Fiat can keep it in sight in such situations as described.

The counterpoint of the article does well to highlight the relative strengths and weaknesses of each car, and the fact that different strokes appeal to different folks.

I think the M2 is a bit of a distance from the perfect M-reborn rhetoric that has appeared throughout the press since its release, but it still has a good deal more character and involvement than just about anything vaguely as habitable.

[Transfer]

I just do not see how the Fiata could possibly keep up with an M2 on the back roads. Every single measured metric has it multiple steps behind the M2. Short of an in car video I can't fathom that story. I like Motor Trend but these guys are on crack in this article.

[jaykoolzboy]

I think most people still pay attention to MT ONLY because of "Randy The Pobst". Randy need his own show or just Join JC for the Amazon Grand Tour. Amazon please make it happen, I would even pay to watch every episode without the Prime.

Jeremy Clarkson (Silly but funny) + Randy Pobst (One of the kind in this industry) = best car show ever.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by redux

It's not shitting on the roundel or a flip flop, it's the difference between an isolated review and a comparison test. Nothing make faults shine like a group test with multiple class of vehicles. You're shitting on motortrend for having an a difference of opinion based on the actually driving of said vehicles versus yours with only the m2. I think that makes you nothing more than a fanboy.....

Dude, that Ignition thing involved direct comparison on a track between the M2 and the M4, and Cassima was positively drooling over the M2 in that "comparison test." Wonder how the M4 would have done in this one...

[redux]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I just do not see how the Fiata could possibly keep up with an M2 on the back roads. Every single measured metric has it multiple steps behind the M2. Short of an in car video I can't fathom that story. I like Motor Trend but these guys are on crack in this article.

Smaller foot print, 2700 pounds, and confidence. Slow car fast is really a thing; most people would be faster in the fiata in the canyons because the fear of sudden on power oversteer has been removed. A lot of the faster guys up here are driving minis, miatas, and fiestas. Check your regional autocross times if you don't believe how murderous those three are at tight course cone killing. You'll just end up beating up the road brail trying to following them unless you are intimately familiar with the M2 and the road.

Originally Posted by BruceM

Dude, that Ignition thing involved direct comparison on a track between the M2 and the M4, and Cassima was positively drooling over the M2 in that "comparison test." Wonder how the M4 would have done in this one...

Yes they did a comparison with an M4, a vehicle in the BWM family that MT hasn't been particularly fond of until the recent comp package. As a former owner I can say that the M4 isn't a difficult car to improve upon. I've flung around everything on that list, but the Fiat, and the only time I'd put the M2 at the top my list is if it was going to be lumped into the only car scenario. I don't think that commuting was a large consideration during their judging.

[Robin_NL]

Dead steering in the M2? Yeah right...


Cheers
Robin

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by redux

It's not shitting on the roundel or a flip flop, it's the difference between an isolated review and a comparison test. Nothing make faults shine like a group test with multiple class of vehicles. You're shitting on motortrend for having an a difference of opinion based on the actually driving of said vehicles versus yours with only the m2. I think that makes you nothing more than a fanboy.....

I was wondering when a 1M owner would chime in here.....

It's common knowledge that Leiberman and Cammisa (aka Barnum and Bailey due to their on-screen antics) are F series BMW, M or otherwise, haters. For the sake of the thread topic, I won't expand upon that.

Jason Cammisa did indeed flip flop. He nearly busted a nut reviewing the M2 in his Ignition episode. Now, months later, he submits overall negative feedback. Unless this particular M2 unit was assembled in a Chinese sweat shop with multiple faults, it's the same car he previously drove. The man has no integrity.

While the previous poster may have come across as a fanboy, he has every right to do so given the fact he owns an M2. I, myself am a fanboy because this is the most fun and capable car I've owned. Be honest and tell everyone, you're a 1M fanboy. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a great car. But to judge someone for defending such a great driver's car against two of Motor Trend's biased and non-integral "journalists" isn't right.

[MerlinPurple]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

I was wondering when a 1M owner would chime in here.....

It's common knowledge that Leiberman and Cammisa (aka Barnum and Bailey due to their on-screen antics) are F series BMW, M or otherwise, haters. For the sake of the thread topic, I won't expand upon that.

Jason Cammisa did indeed flip flop. He nearly busted a nut reviewing the M2 in his Ignition episode. Now, months later, he submits overall negative feedback. Unless this particular M2 unit was assembled in a Chinese sweat shop with multiple faults, it's the same car he previously drove. The man has no integrity.

While the previous poster may have come across as a fanboy, he has every right to do so given the fact he owns an M2. I, myself am a fanboy because this is the most fun and capable car I've owned. Be honest and tell everyone, you're a 1M fanboy. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a great car. But to judge someone for defending such a great driver's car against two of Motor Trend's biased and non-integral "journalists" isn't right.

here here,

Jason is one of my favourite reviewers ... I find him entertaining. It does strike me as odd that he could praise the M2 soo much one one video and then slate it in this article.

Then again should we be surprised? Ever noticed when a new car is highly praised no real faults exist. Then a few years down the line the successor model comes out and all of a sudden the same reviewer is able to splurge out and endless list of faults with the 'older' model

I guess the only measure of truth comes from being able to test the cars yourself (is possible).

Jason (MT) had fairly positive things to say about the M4 GTS, where as clarkson (GT) totally slated it.

Who's right, Who's wrong?

[redux]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

I was wondering when a 1M owner would chime in here.....

It's common knowledge that Leiberman and Cammisa (aka Barnum and Bailey due to their on-screen antics) are F series BMW, M or otherwise, haters. For the sake of the thread topic, I won't expand upon that.

Jason Cammisa did indeed flip flop. He nearly busted a nut reviewing the M2 in his Ignition episode. Now, months later, he submits overall negative feedback. Unless this particular M2 unit was assembled in a Chinese sweat shop with multiple faults, it's the same car he previously drove. The man has no integrity.

While the previous poster may have come across as a fanboy, he has every right to do so given the fact he owns an M2. I, myself am a fanboy because this is the most fun and capable car I've owned. Be honest and tell everyone, you're a 1M fanboy. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a great car. But to judge someone for defending such a great driver's car against two of Motor Trend's biased and non-integral "journalists" isn't right.

I can't say that I'm a fan boy. I was one of the few owners that agreed with RP and MT on the problems (which there are many) of the 1m. I don't defend its flaws, nor do I get offended when someone doesn't have nice thing to say about it or point out there are far more capable options below it's price point. My ego isn't attached to cars, so I don't really care if something filling a specific niche in my garage has a poor showing in a group test. The only thing that matters is if one is happy with their purchase. Is my 1m the most capable car I've ever owned? It's not even in the top 5. Is it the most fun car I've ever owned? Yes, if put into the context of the designated role I use it use for; No, if taken out of that scope.

The M2 is a great car. I'll even go as far as saying it's the best in it's class. However, a jack of all trades is a master of none, and the BMW just lost to a team of specialists. The only harm in it being the most well rounded contestant was that finding the best all-arounder(?) was not the goal of this group test.

...... or Cammisa had a euro spec car for the Ignition test. Try walking in someones shoes before you throw their opinions away. Doing a test drive or a few Turo rentals may expose you to a few things that will make you question your initial thoughts on the M2.

[termigni]

I thought Fiat usually gets bad reviews. I'm surprised to see this car comes on top and M2 which is one of the most loved cars in 2016 comes out at 5/6.

But who knows I've never driven a Fiat so it may as well be that nice.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Dead steering in the M2? Yeah right...


Cheers
Robin

Yes...it's pretty dead. But most cars are now adays.

[Spinnetti]

Originally Posted by redux

I can't say that I'm a fan boy. I was one of the few owners that agreed with RP and MT on the problems (which there are many) of the 1m. I don't defend its flaws, nor do I get offended when someone doesn't have nice thing to say about it or point out there are far more capable options below it's price point. My ego isn't attached to cars, so I don't really care if something filling a specific niche in my garage has a poor showing in a group test. The only thing that matters is if one is happy with their purchase. Is my 1m the most capable car I've ever owned? It's not even in the top 5. Is it the most fun car I've ever owned? Yes, if put into the context of the designated role I use it use for; No, if taken out of that scope.

The M2 is a great car. I'll even go as far as saying it's the best in it's class. However, a jack of all trades is a master of none, and the BMW just lost to a team of specialists. The only harm in it being the most well rounded contestant was that finding the best all-arounder(?) was not the goal of this group test.

...... or Cammisa had a euro spec car for the Ignition test. Try walking in someones shoes before you throw their opinions away. Doing a test drive or a few Turo rentals may expose you to a few things that will make you question your initial thoughts on the M2.

Possibly the most intelligent internet forum response I've ever read. Doesn't even matter if I agree on specifics or not. Well done sir!

"Best" is meaningingless anyway. Mostly people's ego tied up in it. "best", like beauty is always a point in time, and relative to what else is there at the time. I'm sick of waiting for an allocation, so "best" is going to end up what else strikes my fancy that I can actually get. Almost bought an R8 yesterday, but somebody beat me to it.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Yes...it's pretty dead. But most cars are now adays.

In my book it's not. It doesn't have the 1M feel, but it feels way better than my ex E90 M3. I just feel what the front end is doing via my steeringwheel, and that's what counts or?

I need to say I'm a bit a of a simracer (PC: Assetto Corsa, Automobilista) so I'm always tuning Force Feedback etc so probably in a different way aware of steering feel than others??


Cheers
Robin

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

In my book it's not. It doesn't have the 1M feel, but it feels way better than my ex E90 M3. I just feel what the front end is doing via my steeringwheel, and that's what counts or?

I need to say I'm a bit a of a simracer (PC: Assetto Corsa, Automobilista) so I'm always tuning Force Feedback etc so probably in a different way aware of steering feel than others??


Cheers
Robin

It's heavily weighted in sports+, quick, and direct with no off-center dead spot. I can't complain either.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by redux

I can't say that I'm a fan boy. I was one of the few owners that agreed with RP and MT on the problems (which there are many) of the 1m. I don't defend its flaws, nor do I get offended when someone doesn't have nice thing to say about it or point out there are far more capable options below it's price point. My ego isn't attached to cars, so I don't really care if something filling a specific niche in my garage has a poor showing in a group test. The only thing that matters is if one is happy with their purchase. Is my 1m the most capable car I've ever owned? It's not even in the top 5. Is it the most fun car I've ever owned? Yes, if put into the context of the designated role I use it use for; No, if taken out of that scope.

The M2 is a great car. I'll even go as far as saying it's the best in it's class. However, a jack of all trades is a master of none, and the BMW just lost to a team of specialists. The only harm in it being the most well rounded contestant was that finding the best all-arounder(?) was not the goal of this group test.

...... or Cammisa had a euro spec car for the Ignition test. Try walking in someones shoes before you throw their opinions away. Doing a test drive or a few Turo rentals may expose you to a few things that will make you question your initial thoughts on the M2.

What is different about "Euro spec" M2s? Do any differences affect driving dynamics? From what I can find, MT suggests that the US spec car might be as much as 75 pounds heavier (due to power seats, etc. in the US version), but I've seen no test comparing the two different specs on a track. If the difference is in fact that minimal, then perhaps it would not be appropriate to suggest it as a reason for Cammisa's flop, let alone use it as a basis for a lecture about walking in others' shoes.

Otherwise, though, the point is a good one that a major trouble with these comparos and critiquing them is that unless you've driven the cars yourself, it's all guesswork. I can weigh in on M2 vs. M4, but not on M2 vs. Fiat. That doesn't stop me from being incredulous about this ranking, it just stops me from being informed