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      03-04-2017, 06:11 PM   #1
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F80 TS on F30? Tried searching...

On my E92 the M3 control arms was arguably one of the best bang for the buck mods. Looking to do the same on my F30. From searching I see the LCA is a direct swap which reduces camber, former bushings but also pushes wheel forward.

I haven't been able to find anything conclusive on the tension struts. I assume they mustn't fit since they're not being sold as an upgrade. I'm curious to understand why they don't fit?Thanks!!
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      03-05-2017, 04:40 PM   #2
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Whole thread on 2 addicts

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1250352

I'm running m4 LCAs and TS without issue
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      03-06-2017, 01:44 PM   #3
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Awesome, thanks!
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      03-20-2017, 08:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Whole thread on 2 addicts

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1250352

I'm running m4 LCAs and TS without issue
but you are running that on your m135i?

is there a detailed thread for the f30 + f8x LCA and tension struts?
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      03-21-2017, 01:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
but you are running that on your m135i?

is there a detailed thread for the f30 + f8x LCA and tension struts?
Yes M135i shares same/similar front suspension components and geometry as F30 and M235i.

RWD only as these F8x arms upgrades wont work for Xdrive
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      03-21-2017, 01:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
but you are running that on your m135i?

is there a detailed thread for the f30 + f8x LCA and tension struts?
F30 and F20 are exactly the same subframes and suspension you can copy/paste.

I have the F80 LCAs, have not yet found a satisfying way to mount the TS as I prefer not to use spacers like Bee Pee did - not stealth enough in case of damage / insurance claim, they would find cause to back off.

I see two options, which are to replace F80 TS bushings with my F30 bushings, or go back to F30 LCA and opt for -0.5° camber wheel hubs (instead of -1° provided by F80 TS/LCA)
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      03-21-2017, 01:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
F30 and F20 are exactly the same subframes and suspension you can copy/paste.

I have the F80 LCAs, have not yet found a satisfying way to mount the TS as I prefer not to use spacers like Bee Pee did - not stealth enough in case of damage / insurance claim, they would find cause to back off.

I see two options, which are to replace F80 TS bushings with my F30 bushings, or go back to F30 LCA and opt for -0.5° camber wheel hubs (instead of -1° provided by F80 TS/LCA)
So not really worth the trouble for f30?
It's not something high up on my priority.. and I definitely don't know enough about messing with the camber by switching the control arm and tension strut
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      03-21-2017, 02:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
So not really worth the trouble for f30?
It's not something high up on my priority.. and I definitely don't know enough about messing with the camber by switching the control arm and tension strut
If you are happy with steering feel, the way your car handles and getting even wear on your front tyres then I would agree.

My car's steering lacked feel, slow to turn-in and soft outer shoulders of MPSS tyres were wearing prematurely.

LCA and TS are an OEM upgrade that sorted out all of the above foibles.
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      03-21-2017, 02:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
If you are happy with steering feel, the way your car handles and getting even wear on your front tyres then I would agree.

My car's steering lacked feel, slow to turn-in and soft outer shoulders of MPSS tyres were wearing prematurely.

LCA and TS are an OEM upgrade that sorted out all of the above foibles.
Well if you put it that way ... I want this!
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      03-21-2017, 02:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
F30 and F20 are exactly the same subframes and suspension you can copy/paste.

I have the F80 LCAs, have not yet found a satisfying way to mount the TS as I prefer not to use spacers like Bee Pee did - not stealth enough in case of damage / insurance claim, they would find cause to back off.

I see two options, which are to replace F80 TS bushings with my F30 bushings, or go back to F30 LCA and opt for -0.5° camber wheel hubs (instead of -1° provided by F80 TS/LCA)
So do you have the f80 LCA only and not the f80 TS right now?
Or you can't put the LCA on without the TS swap as well?
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      03-21-2017, 02:58 AM   #11
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Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite mods, for the reasons Bee Pee mentioned above, but it should be done properly with both parts changed.

Now i only have the LCAs, and it's moving the wheel center forwards, to the extent that it's rubbing a little on the front of the wheel pit now that i have lowered the car.

I'm looking for solutions as we speak, either to upgrade the TS too, perhaps exchanging bushings with the F30 ones, or using 3rd party like super pro that can adjust caster, or by changing back to the stock LCA but change the wheel hub for the one with negative camber (which comes as default with m135i).

Honestly if i didn't have the f80 LCAs already, i think only changing the wheel hubs for the -0.5deg version would be a no brainer, it's cheaper to buy and it's an oem part.
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      03-21-2017, 11:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite mods, for the reasons Bee Pee mentioned above, but it should be done properly with both parts changed.

Now i only have the LCAs, and it's moving the wheel center forwards, to the extent that it's rubbing a little on the front of the wheel pit now that i have lowered the car.

I'm looking for solutions as we speak, either to upgrade the TS too, perhaps exchanging bushings with the F30 ones, or using 3rd party like super pro that can adjust caster, or by changing back to the stock LCA but change the wheel hub for the one with negative camber (which comes as default with m135i).

Honestly if i didn't have the f80 LCAs already, i think only changing the wheel hubs for the -0.5deg version would be a no brainer, it's cheaper to buy and it's an oem part.
so why is it that you don't use the f8x TS with the LCA's?
spell it out for me if you can
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      03-21-2017, 12:24 PM   #13
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Sure i'll try -
Basically, the f80 series have different front and rear subframe from mainstream f series, and are the most differenciating factor for driving dynamics with the engine of course.

F80 and F30 subframes will bolt at the same points to the car body but are quite different in other aspects. In particular regarding suspension attachment points.

Long story short, the F30 TS have very wide bushings, perhaps 5cm wide (2") whereas the f80 TS has narrow bushings, 2cm (<1") so they are not a direct fit.

Bee Pee and others have used spacers, which has the benefit of retaining M series stronger bushings which further improves driving dynamics, i would like to go a different route and replace the f80 bushings with f30 bushings, in order to try to sustain an inspection if ever i had a traffic accident so they don't void my insurance because using non standard equipment; spacers make it more obvious. This may be stupid but french regulations are this way.

I'm already exposed to this problem with my bright yellow/purple KW coilovers but at least they have a German TUV approval, though not accepted in France at least it has some consistency... but i'm probably diverging from the subject here

The LCAs in contrast have the right width of bushings straight from the manufacturer, f80 and f30 subframes have the same specs here.

Does it help?
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      03-21-2017, 01:50 PM   #14
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F30 front subframe


F80 front subframe
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      03-21-2017, 01:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
This may be stupid but french regulations are this way.
ah ... this clears up a lot
i was wondering why you were worried about insurance issue



but as far as "performance" goes
just using the f8x LCA ... compared to f8x LCA + TS ...
trying to get my head around that part
(i'm not too savvy on the suspension technical stuff)
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      03-21-2017, 02:00 PM   #16
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OK now on the topic of TS or no TS then:
With just LCA you get negative camber, and therefore better cornering thanks to a better support from the front wheels.

However this move the wheels towards the front and when lowered, induces rubbing for me (pic attached)



TS corrects this by pushing the wheel back closer to its normal place at the center of the wheel arch.
+ i read that it gives better braking/steering feel thanks to stiffer bushings.
F8x parts are a notch above F3x parts quality in terms of driving dynamics, with (to most of us undetectable) increase in noise/vibration.
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      03-21-2017, 02:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
OK now on the topic of TS or no TS then:
With just LCA you get negative camber, and therefore better cornering thanks to a better support from the front wheels.

However this move the wheels towards the front and when lowered, induces rubbing for me (pic attached)



TS corrects this by pushing the wheel back closer to its normal place at the center of the wheel arch.
+ i read that it gives better braking/steering feel thanks to stiffer bushings.
F8x parts are a notch above F3x parts quality in terms of driving dynamics, with (to most of us undetectable) increase in noise/vibration.
so if it wasn't for the possible insurance issue, you'd be using the f8x TS as well
there really isn't any reason to NOT use the f8x TS as it's the ideal solution, right?


man, i am tempted...... the guy i'm buying the wheels from is also selling the LCA+TS
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      03-21-2017, 02:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
so if it wasn't for the possible insurance issue, you'd be using the f8x TS as well
there really isn't any reason to NOT use the f8x TS as it's the ideal solution, right?
Quite possibly, *but* i might be happy with a replacement wheel hub with negative camber too (part numbers 31216854199/200), it doesn't give as much camber but seeing how i liked my former m135i stock handling - which comes with these wheel carriers as default - i think it could be very decent while being 100% F30 parts, as i'm not as demanding as Bee Pee can be
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_0972

That being said, i see no reason why you would let the opportunity pass to get TS+LCAs if you get the proper spacers too, if you don't have these insurance issues, i can't think of a downside.
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      03-21-2017, 02:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Quite possibly, *but* i might be happy with a replacement wheel hub with negative camber too (part numbers 31216854199/200), it doesn't give as much camber but seeing how i liked my former m135i stock handling - which comes with these wheel carriers as default - i think it could be very decent while being 100% F30 parts, as i'm not as demanding as Bee Pee can be
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_0972

That being said, i see no reason why you would let the opportunity pass to get TS+LCAs if you get the proper spacers too, if you don't have these insurance issues, i can't think of a downside.
you just convinced me to spend extra money
lol
now i have to worry about labor cost as well then

any of you guys do the swap yourself? i've worked on swapping out the control arms and suspension parts on my old e46 with help from friends (meaning my friends did most of the work but i still put in some muscle)...
not sure if i want to do it on my f30
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      03-21-2017, 03:00 PM   #20
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I haven't done it myself but it was super easy, 2 bolts per side for the LCAs. Not sure about the TSs but seems fairly similar, perhaps 1 hour work for the swapping i guess.

But then it's critical to do a proper geometry, don't even think about driving away without at least a rough visual alignment to let you get to the geometry bench which *must* be done right away
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