[obert]

So I never see people talking about camber issues with a lowered F30. Or see camber kits for sale? I know that the ones sitting on the ground have issues but how bad are the ones that are just lowered to get rid of that wheel gap.

I am wanting to lower my car to get ride of that wheel gap and it's my DD so I am curious about camber issues and fixes for the F30.

Thanks

[Lancelot]

As a matter of fact i have noticed yesterday that the outer 20mm of my rear wheels were not showing the same wear, essentially making them 235 instead of 255 - not good for grip.

I have increased height on the rear by 10mm as it was too low and it seems it's in contact now and wear is more even.

On the front the f30 chassis suffers from lack of camber more than anything IMHO.

I have an alignment scheduled for this Saturday i'll report back with new values and pictures of the car

[obert]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

As a matter of fact i have noticed yesterday that the outer 20mm of my rear wheels were not showing the same wear, essentially making them 235 instead of 255 - not good for grip.

I have increased height on the rear by 10mm as it was too low and it seems it's in contact now and wear is more even.

On the front the f30 chassis suffers from lack of camber more than anything IMHO.

I have an alignment scheduled for this Saturday i'll report back with new values and pictures of the car

Okay thanks for the info!

[d_a_m]

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm just getting to the researching and planning part of my projects, but haven't actually started making any changes to my F30 yet. First big move is adding staggered wheels, but I'm concerned about making any suspension adjustments because of bad prior experience on other cars, camber, etc.. I really want to keep the suspension factory. Any input?

[Lancelot]

depends on what you want to achieve? handling? looks? ride comfort/firmness? body roll control?...

As a matter of fact i've been watching this today, could be helpful? I found this sound advice.

[obert]

Me I just want to get rid of the wheel gap and I will be happy. No need to slam it to the ground. I would love to have air ride

[D Unit]

Bump. What are the coilover guys using to correct camber in the rear? Is everyone using adjustable toe and camber arms? If so, which ones? If not, what then?

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by D Unit

Bump. What are the coilover guys using to correct camber in the rear? Is everyone using adjustable toe and camber arms? If so, which ones? If not, what then?

Nada. They are not required. My alignment sheet shows only -1.7 degrees on the rear and -.7 up front and I have no wheel gap. This isn't extreme at all even compared to the OE specs.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by D Unit

Bump. What are the coilover guys using to correct camber in the rear? Is everyone using adjustable toe and camber arms? If so, which ones? If not, what then?

The factory setup is practically 0 degrees negative camber up front (my car is M Sport + Track Handling Package and it was delivered with -0.1 degrees front left and front right) and the F30s are notorious for outer edge wear on the front tires if you actually drive the car quickly so any negative camber gained by lowering the car is a welcome change. My car was only moderately lowered and ended up with -0.5 degrees camber in the front. I would have liked to have more since I beat the piss out of my car everywhere I go but it was still better than stock.

The rear spec is roughly a degree and a half negative camber (I can't remember exactly what it is right now) and you have an eccentric adjustment so you have a pretty decent range of adjustability. I was able to get somewhere around -1.2 or -1.4 in the rear when moderately lowered and was happy with it. My tire rear in the rear has been extremely even so it's a good match for me.

I think most people don't complain because you can set rear camber to a level that is decently matched to the front. You aren't going to need much more than -1.5 degrees out back since you can't adjust the front and if you are NOT planning to do aggressive driving, you can dial out enough of the rear negative camber to have good tire life unless you're going extremely low or something.

Also, maybe this is just me, but this is my 6th 3 series so I'm used to BMW deciding we don't deserve front camber adjustability by now.

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Nada. They are not required. My alignment sheet shows only -1.7 degrees on the rear and -.7 up front and I have no wheel gap. This isn't extreme at all even compared to the OE specs.

I am using KW Street coilovers. Just got them on, and I had it aligned. I am running the lowest setting on the rear, and my alignment guy was showing about -1.5 on the rear. He said this was too much, and I was to look for some rear toe arms that he could set this too. That said, I will get inside tire wear as the rear squats and is rear biased with the xdrive.

ISSUE: I have not found any rear bars to control camber.

Front: I am not too low on the front, and I think I will go up another 1/4 or 1/2 inch. My alignment guy said I was also -.7 on one side, and -.5 on the other. He had no way to correct this, and said I need -1.5 on the fronts to get what I was looking for.

I want much more grip in the front for on ramps and corners, and roundabouts (which feel awful stock). I want way more balance, and now I am regretting the new staggered tires (245/275) as this didn't reduce understeer really (it did a bit). The new non run flat Michelin PSS 4S are way better for grip and ride though.

The car is better, the coilover are a bit firmer than stock (sport mode) and that is ok. I absolutely need to set front and rear camber like the OP is looking for.

There ARE lots of threads on this, I have been reading the ones on the Vorshlag plates I'll paste links in here when I edit this. There is one guy on this thread that has tried every possible camber plate, and from what I read, the noise is unacceptable to me, but I believe the Vorshlag plates are the best so far. This is what Harold at HP Autowerks is recommending to me too, and he knows everything there is to know on the suspension side (IMHO).

I did find these eccentric camber bolts for the front. I thought I might try these, they are like $10 bucks, and the cost of an alignment - sold by ECS.

I think the choice is these bolts (no idea how much neg camber we could get, or camber plates (and live with the noise) for the front. For NON Xdrive there is the M4 wishbones that could be used as well, but alas I can't use them with the XDrive. I would do the M4 wishbones. I think that gets you to -1.0 if I could.

For the rear, you used to be able to get rear toe arms (I had them on my E92) and they worked great. I need to see if I can find them for my F32.

That said, front and back you are looking at $1000 in parts and then alignment. It is starting to add up....

Camber thread here discussing Vorshlag plates, but covers a lot of ground. Long read, but worth it.
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1293292

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by DaFish

I am using KW Street coilovers. Just got them on, and I had it aligned. I am running the lowest setting on the rear, and my alignment guy was showing about -1.5 on the rear. He said this was too much, and I was to look for some rear toe arms that he could set this too. That said, I will get inside tire wear as the rear squats and is rear biased with the xdrive.

ISSUE: I have not found any rear bars to control camber.

Front: I am not too low on the front, and I think I will go up another 1/4 or 1/2 inch. My alignment guy said I was also -.7 on one side, and -.5 on the other. He had no way to correct this, and said I need -1.5 on the fronts to get what I was looking for.

I want much more grip in the front for on ramps and corners, and roundabouts (which feel awful stock). I want way more balance, and now I am regretting the new staggered tires (245/275) as this didn't reduce understeer really (it did a bit). The new non run flat Michelin PSS 4S are way better for grip and ride though.

-1.5 is not too much. OE specs aim for -1.75, even closer to -2.0 with the OEM M Performance Suspension. xDrive or sDrive.

The PS4S and most summer tires are designed to handle even more aggressive camber. Your alignment guy is feeding you some misinformation. Simultaneously saying you need to spend money to get less than -1.5 in the rear and then reccomending you spend more money to get -1.5 on the front is just nonsense. The rear already has camber adjustment from the factory which is why there are so few options. Front is not adjustible, and -1.5 would be a nice setting, but it's more necessitated by the staggered setup and your goals. Staggered setups are inherently unbalanced and physically give the rear more grip than the front, this sets the stage for understeer. Look into M3/M4 TS & LCA Upgrades for bolt in -1.0 in the front.

[B58 parts]

In my case not enough in front is part of the problem. We set the rear to -2 with the stock adjustment. The fronts came out to -.7 -.8 which is I don't think enough. I have to get the ground control plates and do it again.... -2.25 to maybe -2.5 upfront would help a lot with the [still] understeer on this pig. With the toe square upfront and 1/16 in I'm the rear tire wear should be fine.

[kern417]

My rears are stuck at -2.5. I would really like to bring it back to -2 or so. My alignment shop was able to bring it in to -1.7 after installing super sport springs, but after going lower on coilovers I gained an extra 1° without touching anything else. I guess these cars just gain camber like crazy when lowering them. My fronts are at -1.5 and I'm happy with that.

I'm going to wait and see if the rear tire wear is that bad since these are just the stock runflats. Once they're done, if I see noticeable inside wear then i'll get adjustable arms before getting new tires.


For people that aren't aware of the options, read below:

For the fronts to increase camber, the simplest option is to find some lower control arms from an F8x
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post17391572
Check Car-part.com or ebay for cheap used ones (saw them for ~$100), or buy new if you want.
Left P/N:31122284529
Right P/N: 31122284530

For a little more money and a little more work, you can replace just your front control arm bushings and get some room for adjustment. The only downside is you'll need a press to install them, so not DIY for most people. But with these bushings you can dial in the exact camber you want, decrease suspension deflection when turning turns, and they have less noise issues than camber plates.
https://powerflexusa.com/f3x-3-4-ser...sbushings.aspx


For the rears, Godspeed and Megan Racing sell adjustable rear control arms. I'm personally not a fan of either brand, but I can't find any other options and they seem to work fine.
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1047177
https://www.ebay.com/itm/380764207750
https://www.ebay.com/i/152712720603?chn=ps

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by DaFish

I am regretting the new staggered tires (245/275) as this didn't reduce understeer really (it did a bit).

Going staggered will do the opposite of what you want. You need to either increase front grip, or reduce rear grip to have more oversteer. You can try to decrease the front tire pressures or increase the rear ones (or both of these at the same time) to do this a little.

I had the Superpro camber adjustable bushings installed on my xDrive car yesterday. It gave me the advertised +-0.5deg. Front went from -0.6 to -1.2deg after alignment

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Going staggered will do the opposite of what you want. You need to either increase front grip, or reduce rear grip to have more oversteer. You can try to decrease the front tire pressures or increase the rear ones (or both of these at the same time) to do this a little.

I had the Superpro camber adjustable bushings installed on my xDrive car yesterday. It gave me the advertised +-0.5deg. Front went from -0.6 to -1.2deg after alignment

Another option is to add a few clicks to the rear shocks since he has KW Street Comforts, in addition to tweaking pressures a bit. The bushings or F80 Control Arms are a good way to add in more camber up front. All this being said, specifically aiming for a more neutral balance in handling and purchasing a staggered tire setup is shooting yourself in the foot because now it "needs" all of these additional modifications to compensate for the out-of-place staggered tires to achieve the goal.

I'm RWD so my car naturally has less understeer (it still had a lot when stock), but with a square setup and the increase in neg camber from the drop I would say the car is very close to neutral and a similarly equipped xDrive model would be, too. I get adding in more camber on xDrive models, but if still having gobs of understeer with upgraded suspension and tires it is time to look at the driving, not what is being driven.

[B58 parts]

Here is a pretty good scattering of ideas that talks about reducing understeer. There's a nice flowchart in there.

https://robrobinette.com/S2000KWV3Tuning.htm

I am hoping to do some alignment tweaks first and see where that goes. It's close, just a bit of push mid corner. I am really hoping to avoid stiffer spring rates (I like the ride quality of the V3s). But I do probably want to do better sway bars. Which unfortunately a sway bar install on these cars is a _major project, so much so that I'm not willing to do it on jackstands. No thanks. That sucks because on previous car's it's been a super easy and huge win mod. The body roll is still a problem...

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Going staggered will do the opposite of what you want. You need to either increase front grip, or reduce rear grip to have more oversteer. You can try to decrease the front tire pressures or increase the rear ones (or both of these at the same time) to do this a little.

I had the Superpro camber adjustable bushings installed on my xDrive car yesterday. It gave me the advertised +-0.5deg. Front went from -0.6 to -1.2deg after alignment

I hear you. I did look into a square setup and love the feel of the square setup on my winters. It is a huge difference. I also love the look of the larger rear, with the con cavity as well... anyway, I chose this, now I have to fix it.

I don't see the Superpro bushings for the 4 series - 435iX. So I will have to email them.

X drive can't put the M4 wishbones from the F80 on so that is out.

Anybody put these camber bolts on? No idea how much camber adjustments we get with them, but they would be cheap
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...h/33306784983/

I also had a look for those hubs and I couldn't really figure out which part it was. Do you know how much neg camber it will add?

As much as I want camber plates (I had the non adjustable ones on my E92 from Dinan, and the M3 wishbones/tension arms) I can't deal with the noise that come with them - this is what I am thinking now.

If I could get another -.5 - to just about -1.2, and adjust the rear to more flat, I think that will probably be acceptable for my street driving.

[DaFish]

I am trying to contact KMAC about these bushings. I don't know how much adjustability they provide for camber, but it is bound to be better than stock, and will add some neg camber.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kmac-par...193616-8h~kma/

Has anybody tried these?

[zinner]

bimmer world sells bushing for front camber or camber plates. I am thinking about it.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Powerflex...3-F34-F36.html

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by DaFish

I am trying to contact KMAC about these bushings. I don't know how much adjustability they provide for camber, but it is bound to be better than stock, and will add some neg camber.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kmac-par...193616-8h~kma/

Has anybody tried these?

Originally Posted by zinner

bimmer world sells bushing for front camber or camber plates. I am thinking about it.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Powerflex...3-F34-F36.html

I'd definitely say bushings are the better route if you're trying to avoid noisy camber plates. I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who has gone the bushing route. If they transmit more feeling through the rack, that's just gravy. My main questions would be:

How much camber do you get?

Is there a chance for inadvertant adjustment from driving on bumpy roads over time/has the car needed >1 alignment since install?

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

I'd definitely say bushings are the better route if you're trying to avoid noisy camber plates. I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who has gone the bushing route. If they transmit more feeling through the rack, that's just gravy. My main questions would be:

How much camber do you get?

Is there a chance for inadvertant adjustment from driving on bumpy roads over time/has the car needed >1 alignment since install?

I agree, if we can get camber and caster sorted without the plates for street driving, AND get a bit better steering feel - we win big. These are not a huge investment either - I don't think (still pricing).

From K-MAC support:

1) CAMBER BUSH

#193616-8H replaces the front lower arm inner bush(extraction tubes supplied)

Provides up to 2 degrees Pos. or Neg. Adjustment.

The K-MAC patented design for the 1st time allows precise single wrench adjustment accurately on car under load (direct on alignment rack)

DaFish: In my diagram, I’m assuming it is the #13 arm for Camber, and this bush is replacing #19 - correct? Yes #19 is correct.

2) CASTER BUSH

The #193916-5J replaces the foreword facing thrust arm bush providing extra positive Caster adjustment.

This bush is also Mono ball / 2 axis design for significant improvement to brake and steering response.

As above the lower arm bushes will give you the Camber you require. (I asked for -1.5 min...)

DaFish: For caster, in the diagram it is #9 arm and this bush is #10 - correct?

Yes #10 is correct.

I asked for a price, for them to send me an invoice through paypal, so I'll wait and see what this costs for the parts, and to press in the bushes. I already asked my mechanic about that too - I'll get an answer soon.

I'll ask the question as to whether these will "bounce" loose.

Stay tuned.

[johnung]

Happened to speak to a BMW tech recently who said that the biggest issue that he sees is when guys do aftermarket springs/dampers and don't get the alignment done afterwards. He listed a whole host of potential symptoms that crop up that he ultimately traces back to alignment issues. Called my local dealer who quoted $250 for an alignment. Probably why people avoid the alignment if the car initially appears to be driving okay after damper/spring swap.