[Cdutch513]

Where would you guys install the nozzle? ESS is telling me to install it on the supercharger right by the outlet. There is a flat spot on the casing that looks like it was almost made for a nozzle. He said to get it drilled and threaded. Kinda scares me taking apart the charger. What do you guys think?

[ycehcky]

How long is the "piping" after the supercharger before the throttle body? Is there any hard pipes or all collapsible? I would do it on that before messing with the SC.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by ycehcky

How long is the "piping" after the supercharger before the throttle body? Is there any hard pipes or all collapsible? I would do it on that before messing with the SC.

It's about 1.5' and it's soft tubing.

[ycehcky]

That still might work since it is so short, and I think they have kits that would work.

[SDemetris]

Im not familiar with the system, but this doesnt sound like it should be too much trouble. take the part off that youre going to want to put it on. you can DIY the drilling and tapping. taking it to a machine shop is gonna be 3x the price of the tools. As for location, youre probably going to want it where the air is most turbulent. so right after the supercharger or right after any bends would be good candidates

[NiNeTyOne]

You might consider getting a port matched piece of tubing (solid) and putting that after the SC, then shortening the soft hose to the TB. Then you can put it in the hard tube.

[Torgus]

They sell kits to install meth nozzles in silicone pipe. Example: http://howertonengineering.com/produ...t-adapter-kit/

The furthest away from the TB the better. Gives it more time to atomize. Also, use 2 or 4 nozzles vs. 1 large one. much better atomization. Or be a big boi and do direct port meth injection with check valves etc.

As stated above you could cleanly cut the silicone, install a short aluminum pipe and inject your meth there. Probably what I would do with 2 nozzles. That way if you every part out or sell the kit you can just buy a new silicone hose. Also fixes the issue if you somehow manage to f up taping the SC. Granted you can always retap with a larger bung.

[Bob@BPC]

The biggest issue is that the intake air temp sensor is located in the maf pre blower, so even if you install the meth injection it will not adjust the timing via the air temp. You will see a small performance from your current setup.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

The biggest issue is that the intake air temp sensor is located in the maf pre blower, so even if you install the meth injection it will not adjust the timing via the air temp. You will see a small performance from your current setup.

Can't timing be adjusted in the tune though? Play with it on the dyno until you reach it perfect spark then set it so knowing at 110 degrees maf sensor temp you're really at 70 degrees at the valves. I don't know if I'm asking this correctly. And the methanol increases octane so you would know you could
increase timing.

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

Can't timing be adjusted in the tune though? Play with it on the dyno until you reach it perfect spark then set it so knowing at 110 degrees maf sensor temp you're really at 70 degrees at the valves. I don't know if I'm asking this correctly. And the methanol increases octane so you would know you could
increase timing.

That only works if the dme is always in open loop and you throw drivability out the door. It's best to have the intake air temp sensor seeing actual intake air temperatures, setting your base timing and allowing the sensors to do the job they were designed to do.

[WhiteBeard]

I researched all options and for n52/51 there is no luck unfortunately. SC is only a gimmick in n52 case and meth is pointless. You can go with NO shot, but you'll have leaking gaskets very soon and it's not a long term solution anyway. In your case when you want more power/tq it's clearly a wrong choice to have n52/51. With the money spent on SC and other mods you could have gotten into n54 or even n55

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

That only works if the dme is always in open loop and you throw drivability out the door. It's best to have the intake air temp sensor seeing actual intake air temperatures, setting your base timing and allowing the sensors to do the job they were designed to do.

So basically have to do move the maf into the charged air stream?

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by WhiteBeard

I researched all options and for n52/51 there is no luck unfortunately. SC is only a gimmick in n52 case and meth is pointless. You can go with NO shot, but you'll have leaking gaskets very soon and it's not a long term solution anyway. In your case when you want more power/tq it's clearly a wrong choice to have n52/51. With the money spent on SC and other mods you could have gotten into n54 or even n55

Please explain how it's a gimmick

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

The biggest issue is that the intake air temp sensor is located in the maf pre blower, so even if you install the meth injection it will not adjust the timing via the air temp. You will see a small performance from your current setup.

Can you remove the sensor and place it after the blower or can you not remove it from the maf? If you can't remove it install 2nd maf after the blower and just have the temp sensor hooked up from that location? Cut and extend harness etc.

Or inject before the blower? People inject meth pre turbo. Inject a very small amount so the maf and iat see the cooling but the majority is injected after the blower. On the n54 with direct port meth you still spray a tiny bit in the charge pipe so the iat sensor see's the cooling affect of the meth but 90% is being injected after it.

[Bob@BPC]

We are working on a solution to this issue now, thats why we wanted to get a test car here in the shop. Im working on getting a n54 2.5bar map sensor with a built in IAT sensor that will replace the MAP sensor on the intake manifold, that way its down stream of the blower and you will get proper intake temps.

[WhiteBeard]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

Please explain how it's a gimmick

Don't get offended. I may have come harsh, but you know what I mean don't you? $5-6k for a 30hp increase under the curve? Come on man..... it's a gimmick for that money, might as well get same performance gain by emptying your trunk from unneeded stuff or kicking out your passenger

Yeah I'm not talking about max hp gains at 6-7k rpm - unless you constantly tracking your 328 at max rpms lol

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by WhiteBeard

Don't get offended. I may have come harsh, but you know what I mean don't you? $5-6k for a 30hp increase under the curve? Come on man..... it's a gimmick for that money, might as well get same performance gain by emptying your trunk from unneeded stuff or kicking out your passenger

Yeah I'm not talking about max hp gains at 6-7k rpm - unless you constantly tracking your 328 at max rpms lol

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess. I think it was worth it.

[JuniorB]

Look at it from this point of view, it's been proven an in charge pipe meth nozzle will give you the worst distribution, and a 3si would be even worst. The better way of meth distrubution would be either tapping nozzles in your intake at the intake flange, or direct port from a plate. Uneven meth distrubution in one of the reasons the n54 bends rods. If you wanted a cheap way out without cutting up a 3si, run a single and tap the runners for meth nozzles. The n54 has many options on plate kits out there and would benefit in your behalf. That's my plan with my nitrous is to tap a single intake, you can also buy the new n54 aluminum intake with the nozzles already molded in there. I won't disclose the name but if you read around, it's the one to have and been proven. You can also make a tbi kit out of a th spacer. Unless you can run e85, this may be your next step.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by JuniorB

Look at it from this point of view, it's been proven an in charge pipe meth nozzle will give you the worst distribution, and a 3si would be even worst. The better way of meth distrubution would be either tapping nozzles in your intake at the intake flange, or direct port from a plate. Uneven meth distrubution in one of the reasons the n54 bends rods. If you wanted a cheap way out without cutting up a 3si, run a single and tap the runners for meth nozzles. The n54 has many options on plate kits out there and would benefit in your behalf. That's my plan with my nitrous is to tap a single intake, you can also buy the new n54 aluminum intake with the nozzles already molded in there. I won't disclose the name but if you read around, it's the one to have and been proven. You can also make a tbi kit out of a th spacer. Unless you can run e85, this may be your next step.

Well I had the single stage intake and gained 20 hp at peak and some low end from putting on the 3 stage. So I don't really want to go back now. I know BPC was talking about possibly doing it to the N52 they are doing for MoserBMW. So we will see. They have more parts at their disposal then I do.

[JuniorB]

The single would definitely give you a better power band in the upper rpm when the sc is making its power. One thing I've seen is that these na engines make dismal torque, but better hp. Since the sc makes it power in the mid to upper range, that's your strong suit. I still think this setup can make great power with the right setup, if you consider a meth kit, you could absolutely run a few psi more boost.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by JuniorB

The single would definitely give you a better power band in the upper rpm when the sc is making its power. One thing I've seen is that these na engines make dismal torque, but better hp. Since the sc makes it power in the mid to upper range, that's your strong suit. I still think this setup can make great power with the right setup, if you consider a meth kit, you could absolutely run a few psi more boost.

Yeah ESS told me they would throw on a 110mm pulley when I get meth

[JuniorB]

Can you buy pullies straight from vortech?