[tom.gnade]

https://www.cgon.co.uk/Product

I thought this looked interesting, if it is in fact a real thing. It apparently injects a small amount of hydrogen gas into a normal internal combustion motor, with pretty amazing results.

[hassmaschine]

the problem is it takes massive amounts of electricity to separate any quantity of hydrogen from oxygen (H20). Generating that electricity requires power, which you get by burning gas to run the alternator..

I mean, BMW went so far as to design a complicated battery charging system so they wouldn't have to run the alternator all the time so they could increase fuel economy by a couple percent. Now you'll need to run the alternator more, which uses more gas, to generate another type of fuel that's supposed to save you gas. Even if the efficiency was really high (say, 90%) you'd still be better off just using that energy directly instead of using it to generate hydrogen.

This is basic thermodynamics - like an electric supercharger, it probably doesn't really work. if it did, one of the big manufacturers would have bought them out so they could get an edge on fuel economy over their competition.

[N52UNED]

Although the Morgan Motor Cars seems to be onboard and states they've found results ... there's no actual data given ... only advertising / promotion jargon. No before and after ... nothing.

I'm pretty sceptical that it has the results they claim. The idea of "real world" testing consisting of driving around a track doesn't really equate to real world. Maybe putting around London ... but put it on a major US freeway and I doubt the results will be the same.

I'm with Hass here ... with how much California and other states out west are screaming for more and more cleaner emissions if it really lived up to claims we'd be hearing a bit more of it on this side of the pond.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

the problem is it takes massive amounts of electricity to separate any quantity of hydrogen from oxygen (H20). Generating that electricity requires power, which you get by burning gas to run the alternator..

I mean, BMW went so far as to design a complicated battery charging system so they wouldn't have to run the alternator all the time so they could increase fuel economy by a couple percent. Now you'll need to run the alternator more, which uses more gas, to generate another type of fuel that's supposed to save you gas. Even if the efficiency was really high (say, 90%) you'd still be better off just using that energy directly instead of using it to generate hydrogen.

This is basic thermodynamics - like an electric supercharger, it probably doesn't really work. if it did, one of the big manufacturers would have bought them out so they could get an edge on fuel economy over their competition.

Here are some interesting numbers.

This system has maximum current draw of 4 amps. That's about 50 watts.

A commercial grade hydrogen generator takes 50,000 watts per hour to generate 1KG of hydrogen gas from water. So this system can generate maybe 0.001 kilograms or one gram of hydrogen per hour.

At 30% engine load our N52 consumes around 210 Kilograms of air per hour. So the hydrogen generated represents 0.0000047% of the air consumed by the engine.

Far Less then the 0.00005% of hydrogen naturally found in the atmosphere.

Scientific notation would make this math easier.

I call this Smoke and Mirrors. Here today, gone tomorrow.

[desertman123]

HHO generators are nothing new. All nonsense.

[3pdals328i]

I always thought the problem with this was that the driver would have to constantly fill the tank with water to make it work. People can barely keep their windshield washer tanks full let alone asking them to fill up the car with gasoline AND water. Plus, most gas stations do not have water piped out near the car, so the customer would have to make a special effort to get water into the car. I think this is reason Tesla is making such an effort to get the infrastructure in place to support their cars. They inherently understand that if it's not easy and convenient to recharge your car anywhere, no one is going to buy them.

[hassmaschine]

The problem is it doesn't work. lol.

[tlow98]

Where's the physics troll when you need him?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Here are some interesting numbers.

This system has maximum current draw of 4 amps. That's about 50 watts.

A commercial grade hydrogen generator takes 50,000 watts per hour to generate 1KG of hydrogen gas from water. So this system can generate maybe 0.001 kilograms or one gram of hydrogen per hour.

At 30% engine load our N52 consumes around 210 Kilograms of air per hour. So the hydrogen generated represents 0.0000047% of the air consumed by the engine.

Far Less then the 0.00005% of hydrogen naturally found in the atmosphere.

Scientific notation would make this math easier.

I call this Smoke and Mirrors. Here today, gone tomorrow.

How dare you use math to refute bullshit! It just ain't the Murkin way dammit.