[SiEgs90]

Sorry in advance for creating another thread, but I didn't want to jack somebody else's with my own line of questioning. So after reading another thread about the OEM PE exhaust I saw it mentioned that the Eurobox is a good alternative for gains and cost along with an ECU tune.. That being said I saw that Turner doesn't sell the Eurobox anymore because of BMW stopping it for the NA market. Although I'm sure you can get it elsewhere. So what I'd like to know is if anybody has experience with them and what are the disadvantages and advantages to both. Don't really want to do a k&n drop filter because it seems to be more of a hassle to get to in the future. Also for future reference for software upgrade does the e90 328xi have stage 3 intake? It's not the sport package it's the cold weather package. Model 328xi Ml - USA
Development Code E90
Chassis LIM
Steering LL
Doors 4
Engine N52K
Displacement 3.00
Power 172
Drivetrain ALLR
Transmission AUT
Production Plant MUNICH
Production Date 2008-07-25

[rick100]

Im pretty sure you do not need a tune for the euro box as the ecu will adapt itself

As per gains , as it has been discussed many times , other than 3 stage intake , headers and tune , all the other mods do not give you that much HP increase. ( I believe there are other non popular mods still in the works but they are still on testing proccess)

Euro box will probably give you a more responsive car , a little more torque , nice sound but thats about it . No different than getting a PE exhaust . It will mostly be sound and of course its a nice cosmetic mod under the hood

k and n filter is the poor man way of getting the sound and responsiveness without breaking the wallet.

And you dont have 3 stage intake from factory

[SiEgs90]

Thanks for the reply Rick. Maybe I'll just get some suspension work done and save my cash for lighter wheels. 500 plus is too much for an intake setup.

[hassmaschine]

save your money - there's zero performance benefits there. IMO, the K&N drop in is the way to go, and cut out the charcol filter.

some say the stock airbox makes it a pain to replace/clean the filter (which is true) but really, how often do you need to do that? once a year? for me it's once every two years, and it still only takes about 10 minutes. Not worth $500 IMO.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by Sigsbimmer

Thanks for the reply Rick. Maybe I'll just get some suspension work done and save my cash for lighter wheels. 500 plus is too much for an intake setup.

THIS! I just experienced this myself after dropping nearly 35lbs in unsprung mass with a lighter wheel setup. The difference is remarkable, I was not expecting to notice it so much. The car honestly feels like it gained 25HP, its much more eager to get going off the line, quicker to respond to steering inputs too. It just feels far lighter on its feet and I absolutely love it. It truly transformed the car. Now, if the 3SIM + tune gives similar results, I'll be over the moon.

[SiEgs90]

Hassmachine I've read and heard that although a K&N filter is good for air flow they're prone to let more debris through although I don't see what would be harmful coming through. Just minor particles. I had a drop in with my Honda and didn't really have problems so if anything I'll just do a drop in for something over OEM and call it a day.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by Sigsbimmer

Hassmachine I've read and heard that although a K&N filter is good for air flow they're prone to let more debris through although I don't see what would be harmful coming through. Just minor particles. I had a drop in with my Honda and didn't really have problems so if anything I'll just do a drop in for something over OEM and call it a day.

This has been discussed many many times on different forums. I ve had kand n filter in all my cars without any problems. My last honda had it for 200 000 miles and it was running strong till the day i sold it.

You will find most of the people against it are the ones that did not even used it and most people for it are the ones that actually used it on their cars. I cant say i ve gain power but i will say that the car became more responsive and i feel more torque on lower rpms and it also sounds nice. Maybe placebo effect but i had the same feeling when i installed ot in my honda and mazda 3

[SiEgs90]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

THIS! I just experienced this myself after dropping nearly 35lbs in unsprung mass with a lighter wheel setup. The difference is remarkable, I was not expecting to notice it so much. The car honestly feels like it gained 25HP, its much more eager to get going off the line, quicker to respond to steering inputs too. It just feels far lighter on its feet and I absolutely love it. It truly transformed the car. Now, if the 3SIM + tune gives similar results, I'll be over the moon.

How much does one of your wheels weigh now? I have the stock 268s which I like, but lighter would be nice. I don't want to jump up to 17's. I'm putting a lot off until after winter as I live in SW PA.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by Sigsbimmer

How much does one of your wheels weigh now? I have the stock 268s which I like, but lighter would be nice. I don't want to jump up to 17's. I'm putting a lot off until after winter as I live in SW PA.

19lbs I believe. OEM 513M forged 18" wheels. I was running 19" Style 269 before.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Sigsbimmer

Hassmachine I've read and heard that although a K&N filter is good for air flow they're prone to let more debris through although I don't see what would be harmful coming through. Just minor particles. I had a drop in with my Honda and didn't really have problems so if anything I'll just do a drop in for something over OEM and call it a day.

Havent had any issues on the 4 vehicles I run them on. I call BS. Similar to anecdotes of them killing MAFs.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

THIS! I just experienced this myself after dropping nearly 35lbs in unsprung mass with a lighter wheel setup. The difference is remarkable, I was not expecting to notice it so much. The car honestly feels like it gained 25HP, its much more eager to get going off the line, quicker to respond to steering inputs too. It just feels far lighter on its feet and I absolutely love it. It truly transformed the car. Now, if the 3SIM + tune gives similar results, I'll be over the moon.

It really makes a bigger difference than you'd think. My friend with his 08 VW R32 took off nearly 40lb and even sitting in the passenger seat I noticed a difference immediately.

There's also the Rev Motoring intake tube, it adds some nice woosh noises.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by desertman123

It really makes a bigger difference than you'd think. My friend with his 08 VW R32 took off nearly 40lb and even sitting in the passenger seat I noticed a difference immediately.

There's also the Rev Motoring intake tube, it adds some nice woosh noises.

I ve experienced this when I installed the arc 8 in my bmw. The car felt so much lighter and quicker. I ll probably confirm this once I go back to my winter rims

[SiEgs90]

Getting back to this I just went with an aFe dry drop in filter cause it was on sale on TMS. Plus they're in Ohio and shipping only took 1 day for me. Didn't feel like removing the charcoal at the time, but maybe in the future. Didn't feel like messing with it and didn't wanna be lazy about it and have debris enter the engine. It's funny after I ordered it I went to Amazon and they have a button you can choose for an additional $200 install charge for the same product. Did mine for zero dollars and only took 10mins out of my day before the rain fell.

[N52UNED]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Havent had any issues on the 4 vehicles I run them on. I call BS. Similar to anecdotes of them killing MAFs.

Originally Posted by rick100

This has been discussed many many times on different forums. I ve had kand n filter in all my cars without any problems. My last honda had it for 200 000 miles and it was running strong till the day i sold it.

You will find most of the people against it are the ones that did not even used it and most people for it are the ones that actually used it on their cars. I cant say i ve gain power but i will say that the car became more responsive and i feel more torque on lower rpms and it also sounds nice. Maybe placebo effect but i had the same feeling when i installed ot in my honda and mazda 3

Agreed. I've had K&N filters in my F350 for 10 yrs (a bit less than 100k miles with K&N), Toyota Sienna for 3 (about 125k miles with K&N ... this vehicle has done 4 trips between Reno NV and NC) ... before that an Audi for 7 (about 125k miles with K&N), a Focus for 8 (about 150k miles with K&N) and an F150 for 3 or so (don't remember miles likely about 45k with K&N) ... just haven't bothered with my BMW yet. No issues due to the filters whatsoever. Just make sure not to overload the filter with oil and let it fully dry before you install it.

I've also dismissed the performance as placebo ... but it really does feel like in increases low end torque. The only vehicle I swore I felt a difference with was my Focus, as it was a big increase.

[N52UNED]

@ OP ... check out european eBay for a used eurobox. YOu can find ones shipped very reasonable, although they aren't plentiful. Just make sure you get the right one for your car.

[SiEgs90]

Originally Posted by N52UNED

@ OP ... check out european eBay for a used eurobox. YOu can find ones shipped very reasonable, although they aren't plentiful. Just make sure you get the right one for your car.

Thanks for the info. Might check it out in the future.

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by rick100

Im pretty sure you do not need a tune for the euro box as the ecu will adapt itself

As per gains , as it has been discussed many times , other than 3 stage intake , headers and tune , all the other mods do not give you that much HP increase. ( I believe there are other non popular mods still in the works but they are still on testing proccess)

Euro box will probably give you a more responsive car , a little more torque , nice sound but thats about it . No different than getting a PE exhaust . It will mostly be sound and of course its a nice cosmetic mod under the hood

k and n filter is the poor man way of getting the sound and responsiveness without breaking the wallet.

And you dont have 3 stage intake from factory

Yes, the ECU will adapt to little mods on its own within 350miles of driving

Gains will be minimal without the big mods that have been mentioned

K&N filters are pieces of shit compared to OEM. Always use OEM.

Instead of getting an air intake, you can delete your secondary cats for $100 and you will get more power and sound then from the intake alone.

[Delta0311]

Only way to squeeze some power out of the N52 is with the following
Lighter wheels (and nothing over 17in)
Good suspension setup
Ecu tune
3 stage intake maninfold.
Headers.

That's pretty much all you need and really all you can do. There is a super charger kit out there but it is not cost effective.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by German Straight-6

Yes, the ECU will adapt to little mods on its own within 350miles of driving

Gains will be minimal without the big mods that have been mentioned

K&N filters are pieces of shit compared to OEM. Always use OEM.

Instead of getting an air intake, you can delete your secondary cats for $100 and you will get more power and sound then from the intake alone.

Ok, if read secondary cat delete one more time I'm going to puke.

Where do you get this stuff from?

ECU can adapt almost instantly. Tuners will tell you three dyno pulls will be enough. Mine adapts pretty well with one driving cycle. I've cleared my adaptation and tried over 30 tunes on my car. I'm pretty confident this is the case. I would not even think about the adaptations needed for a Eurobox, changes are too little.

Why would you even try to put down the K&N filter without facts or data? I'm a fan of the OEM stuff but there are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum that have nothing but good things to say about them. Some have posted Dyno tunes to prove there opinion, what have you done?

If the OP wants more power, there is no substitute for a good tune. Simple, three stage IM and tune. Everything else can be a plus but start there. If you like to make noise and don't care much about power there are plenty of options.

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Ok, if read secondary cat delete one more time I'm going to puke.

Where do you get this stuff from?

ECU can adapt almost instantly. Tuners will tell you three dyno pulls will be enough. Mine adapts pretty well with one driving cycle. I've cleared my adaptation and tried over 30 tunes on my car. I'm pretty confident this is the case. I would not even think about the adaptations needed for a Eurobox, changes are too little.

Why would you even try to put down the K&N filter without facts or data? I'm a fan of the OEM stuff but there are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum that have nothing but good things to say about them. Some have posted Dyno tunes to prove there opinion, what have you done?

If the OP wants more power, there is no substitute for a good tune. Simple, three stage IM and tune. Everything else can be a plus but start there. If you like to make noise and don't care much about power there are plenty of options.

why? secondary deletes cost 5x less and give you 2-3x more power then a new intake, what is wrong with that?

I've tested the ECU adaptation process myself, once with a secondary delete () and once with a new high flow muffler. every 100KM, I would film a clip of my cold start, another clip of revving. I made 5 videos until 500KM.

full throttle pulls did help speed up this process, but the exhaust sounded a little bit better each time and did not stop fully adapting until 500KM later.

I have read a study before on K&N filters that they let exponentially more dirt into your engine. others on this forum have tested it before and noted the same thing.

with that being said, I will agree that by far the best way to go for the N52 engine is a 3 stage IM and ECU tune. maybe some exhaust work to free up a couple ponies for sound and that is really all you need.

[rick100]

I find 90% of the people online bashing k and n filter are the ones that never used it and just read the bad stuff on other forums

I also find about 80% of people that actually used or are using k and n filter are happy with the product

Because of the work I do , I tend do have days that I literally have nothing to do , and the internet is my only distraction. So I got lost on different forums where the k and n filter is discussed. Almost every car forum has a topic on this and almost every forum has the same type of response.

Guys that never used it , bash it , like the filter ruined their car, even though they have never used it. Then you have the guys that are using it or used it come and say they have pretty good experience. Then you have very few that said they used it and it was crap and I would even say half of them are lying and never used the product, these last group is very very minor

Bottom line to me is k and n filters have been around for ages, back when I was still in high school ( 20 years ago) I remember seeing them on cars . Almost all the car guys that I know or talk have used it at some point and I have never heard one of them say k and n filter ruined my car. I have personally put over 200 000 miles on my civic that already had k and n filter when I bought it from last owner and never once had an issue with it . The BMW has been running great for the past 30 000 kms with k and n filter, pulls strong , no idle problems . I would also say that AA headers did not pulled as nice before I had the filter, so maybe someone running AA headers without a filter should just add k and n filter temporarily and confirm this. Power was there, but it was not as smooth and I had already drove 800 kms with the headers. Maybe it was just placebo effect

All I can say is that the problems seems to be when people re oiled the filter, or some defective filters that come over oil from factory ( some people claimed this) . I ve never seen or know someone that had an over oiled filter out of the box , but I guess it could be possible.

The other major claim is that it lets more dirt in the engine ( does not filter as well as oem), therefore reducing the life of it . The first part is true , that is where you get the " performance" , which to me feels more like responsiveness which can be translated into torque ( at least thats how I can described , as many other people running these filters). The second part I call BS. Many people running their engines well into the 200s-300s miles with these filters without having to change the engine. As a matter of fact I would say people are usually using k and n filter on older cars as it is a cheap mod so you would think these engines should not be able to handle such a bad filter letting all these dirt in

Anyways , to me is plain and simple , if you have not used it , then don't make claims that you read somewhere else.

Lastly german straigh 6 would probably say he used it now

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by German Straight-6

why? secondary deletes cost 5x less and give you 2-3x more power then a new intake, what is wrong with that?

I've tested the ECU adaptation process myself, once with a secondary delete () and once with a new high flow muffler. every 100KM, I would film a clip of my cold start, another clip of revving. I made 5 videos until 500KM.

full throttle pulls did help speed up this process, but the exhaust sounded a little bit better each time and did not stop fully adapting until 500KM later.

I have read a study before on K&N filters that they let exponentially more dirt into your engine. others on this forum have tested it before and noted the same thing.

with that being said, I will agree that by far the best way to go for the N52 engine is a 3 stage IM and ECU tune. maybe some exhaust work to free up a couple ponies for sound and that is really all you need.

How does a video clip after an exhaust mod relate to ECU adaption ? You have zero chance to pick up tonal differences in adaption values with your ears and standard Audio equipment.

Did you record the DME adaption values at intervals?


K&N. others will jump in on this.