[BimmerNugget]

Is the trade off worth it?

[captainbutterbal]

I loved n51/52 when they were new, it is basically a perfect daily driver.

I don't see the point of getting a reliable 10 years old car now, might as well get something fun at this point and drive it till it blows up.

[TemjinX2]

if you want a reliable car buy a lexus, acura or infiniti. If you want a great performance car for the money i would get the 335i, but test drive both. Neither the n52 or n54 will be as reliable as a lexus or honda.

[6ixSpd]

Here we go again....

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Okay, let's make it as simple as possible.

Which engine has more moving parts, all things else held equal?

[chaerimk]

I have the 2010 n52 e93 and I love mine. Relative non issues so far and i am close to 90k miles.

It is all up to what you consider more important. I used to wish my car have more power sometime since the convertible top make is heavier, combine with the sluggish petal doesnt help. But since I added in the performance exhaust and intake, it has been lots of fun. Now, everytime I think about the 335i, I get in my car and I forget all about it.

If you want speed and power, go for 335i. For me to go from Lexus to BMW, reliability was my main concern and i am very happy with the decision to go with the 328i.

[GMe90]

I prefer the n52 over the n55. The 328i is not a slow car by any means. Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't know how to drive it properly. You have to be in higher RPMs. Right where the N55 craps out (5500-6000 RPM), the N52 gets going.

[Eddien123]

Who said the N52 wasn?t fun? It?s preference. Some people dont think the problems with the n54 are worth it some do. It?s what you want in a car.

[Ozzie335i]

Originally Posted by GMe90

I prefer the n52 over the n55. The 328i is not a slow car by any means. Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't know how to drive it properly. You have to be in higher RPMs. Right where the N55 craps out (5500-6000 RPM), the N52 gets going.

I have had both. Keep telling yourself that. And no, I do not suffer from M3 envy.

[GMe90]

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

I have had both. Keep telling yourself that. And no, I do not suffer from M3 envy.

I have had both myself, and I stand by my statement.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Here we go again....

Oil thread status now

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

if you want a reliable car buy a lexus, acura or infiniti. If you want a great performance car for the money i would get the 335i, but test drive both. Neither the n52 or n54 will be as reliable as a lexus or honda.

Seriously? There are several owners on this board that have +200k mile 328's.

I'm getting ready to trip 230k on my wagon. Efthreeoh, if I remember correctly, well over 300k on his car.

If you take care of a car and don't abuse it, 328i/xi are as reliable as any Asian or Euro car.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

if you want a reliable car buy a lexus, acura or infiniti. If you want a great performance car for the money i would get the 335i, but test drive both. Neither the n52 or n54 will be as reliable as a lexus or honda.

So in 1989, when my wife was driving our 1989 E30, I owned an Acura Integra (1st gen). It basically was a Honda civic with and Acura badge on it. I drove it for 8 years and 230,000 miles, and all of it was highway miles (DC to Baltimore). At the same time the E30 spent time in NYC for 3 years and driven by my wife (then girlfriend), who can break just about anything (she'll admit to that if you ask her). We kept the E30 for 18 years and 256,000 miles. The Acura when through 3 left front halfshafts, had the ignitor recall (I fixed it first - but got reimbursed by Honda). The Acura's clutch went at about 190,000 miles IIRC because it started to slip (keep in mind 90% of the miles were highway). The wiring harness to the rear hatch broke several times (bad engineering design). The muffler rusted out, and the left rear fender (at the lip) rusted to bubble the paint (after only 8 years); and I was in my 20's when I owned it and washed the car every 2 weeks. The AC pump died at 225,000 miles. The motor and trans never had an issue (other than the ignitor). The interior was fading due to sun exposure on the rear seats.

The E30 when I sold it in 2006 (18 years old) had virtually no rust. It did have some small rust repaired at the battery box (common for the E30), and the left door had some surface rust on the inside lip. The AC did lose the pump at 220,000 IIRC, but it needed to be converted to R134 anyway. The cooling system lost the t-stat housing (left my wife stranded) at 130,000. At 120,000 the steering rack needed replacement due to bad seals, also a common E30 problem. I replaced the clutch at 230,000 miles and it still had room left on the plate (the throwout bearing went bad). And the E30 was notorious for needing antenna masts every 60,000 miles or so. The only recall was the heater core issue, where BMW installed a valve to prevent burns if the core burst - I ended up replacing the core with an updated core BMW introduced sometime later. The fuel pump went around 180,000 IIRC - it took 40 minutes to replace.

All in all the E30 was in better shape at the same mileage 8 years past the Integra hitting the same mileage (230K). Both cars were on par with each other regarding maintenance and repair.

My N52 E90 has been far better than the E30 regarding maintenance and repair. I have a friend with a 2004 and 2006 (I might be off by the years a bit) Honda Civics both that lost the head gaskets at 160,000 miles. I'll not get in the fight between the N52 and the turbo engine'd BMWs, but the N52 IMO is as reliable as any other car engine I've had over 39 years of driving, and as reliable as the other two BMW engines I've had (M30 and M44).

My 2 cents.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

I have had both. Keep telling yourself that. And no, I do not suffer from M3 envy.

Meh, I had a e91 328i and an f22 M235i at the same time. I still have the 328i, I traded the M235i. The 328i already has more performance than is really usable on a public street. I don't miss the M235i at all. There comes a point, at least for mature adults, where the inability to use all that performance you paid a fortune for becomes rather annoying. We are, for the most part, not race car drivers, and the street is not a race track - you are not there to win a race. It was fun, but not THAT much more fun. It was amazing in Germany where you could actually use the performance, but in the US I value my license and cheap insurance rates too much.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Seriously? There are several owners on this board that have +200k mile 328's.

I'm getting ready to trip 230k on my wagon. Efthreeoh, if I remember correctly, well over 300k on his car.

If you take care of a car and don't abuse it, 328i/xi are as reliable as any Asian or Euro car.

There exceptions to every rule, i'm not going to get into a argument about sampling. But most people when they expect reliability, they think of honda toyota levels of reliability.

So i'm letting the op know he can't expect those levels of reliability because there simply not and he will have to put a good amount of money into maintence outside of oil changes and tires.

The F series car seems more reliable then past generations so there hope there.

Since you are going to be putting in extra money, you might as well enjoy the car. I would prefer the power of the 335i, but i told him to test drive both. Some people are ok with the 328i power levels.

Most people who buy a BMW or Mercedes are doing it to enjoy the performance, looks or luxury.

I never heard anyone say there buying a german car for great reliability.

[hassmaschine]

Whenever somebody says a beater Honda/Toyota/GM is more reliable than anything from BMW (N54/N55 notwithstanding) I wonder if they think people who drive cheap appliances are such OCD freaks about their cars and trying to keep them "like new".

You think somebody with a used 2010 impala/camry/civic cares if there's a drop of oil under the car? If some part of the car is making a funny noise, do they bother with it? Will they pay attention to all the errors/CELs? No. They'll drive it for 5-10 years without putting a cent into it, aside from the bare maintenance, whether or not there are leaks or broken parts (because there will be, don't kid yourselves). Then it will get sent to the crusher and be recycled to make another cheap appliance that nobody will ever care enough about to "fix up" like people who own used BMWs do.

I finally had to fix something (tensioner) on my 330i after the last 3 years of driving it - and it cost me a whole $80. If I have to spend $100 on repairs every 3 years that's pretty damn cheap (I did replace a coil and a light bulb a few years ago). The clutch should last to 200k easily, and by then I will probably be looking for a different car anyway (maybe, it really is quite fun to drive).

We sold our E91 but it was a similar story. When the seller had it inspected I sort of expected the worst but it came out basically needing nothing but a brake fluid flush and new shocks, which any car would need after 125k miles.

The jury is still out on our X5 but we already put a 1k mile road trip on it and didn't have any issues with it - it was pretty great driving along the Oregon coast and mountain passes actually. I just wish it had 3 pedals..

[CTinline-six]

N52 will be more reliable simply because it is less complicated.


Many other brands will be more reliable than BMW because they are less complicated.

BMWs should be bought because they are fun to drive, NOT because of reliability. I wouldn't say a BMW is any less reliable than a Honda if maintained, but they do have some severe issues that are design flaws that can get very expensive if not taken care of.

An example would be the belt tensioner/oil filter housing gasket thread. If the belt tensioner breaks or you have oil leaks on a Honda, it makes for an annoying trip to the parts store or a mess on the driveway. If the belt tensioner fails or you have oil leaking on the belt from the OFHG on a BMW E90, it can destroy the engine. The newer/more complex the cars are it seems to get worse. OFHG and belt tensioners failing wouldn't destroy the engine on an E46 unless the driver continued driving with a failed belt and it overheated.

Take care of these flaws by fixing the gasket and replacing the tensioner and it is not really an issue, fail to do so and it can cost you the engine.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

I never heard anyone say there buying a german car for great reliability.

Okay, that was seriously funny. Considering German automotive set most of the marks for reliability around the world.

Mercedes use to ( and they may still ) put badges on their cars and have them in 250k kilometer increments for up to 1 million kilometers (621,000 miles). There is one 280SE that has 1,019,000 miles in the MB Museum.

BMW may have be known by the "Ultimate Driving Machine" but they too have decades of cars still out running with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. But it is stupidity like the CBS oil limit of 300k kilometers that piss people off toward BMW.

Even Toyota's and Honda's to reach any significant mark over 200k must be maintained. And considering their oil change of 3k - 5k miles and other low mileage maintenance items, I would almost guarantee you that they spend as much and maybe more than BMW's or MB's.

So everything needs the proper maintenance and care done to them to last any amount of time. If you treat something like shit, that is all you are going to get out of it.

I actually would like to find someone who has a nice well taken care of 335i and see how long it actually would last with out mods, tunes or abuse.

[InControl]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

I actually would like to find someone who has a nice well taken care of 335i and see how long it actually would last with out mods, tunes or abuse.

A well maintained and taken care of 335i will not go over 150k miles without needing a new turbo and a plethora of other things do to the nature of the design and use. A mediocre 328i will run longer. Like one forum member said, one must know how to drive a 328i right for performance, this is also true for longevity and each car requires a different driving technique.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Okay, that was seriously funny. Considering German automotive set most of the marks for reliability around the world.

Mercedes use to ( and they may still ) put badges on their cars and have them in 250k kilometer increments for up to 1 million kilometers (621,000 miles). There is one 280SE that has 1,019,000 miles in the MB Museum.

Okay but you have to admit, those were the days when they were actually built to last. They were expensive vehicles because they were extremely overbuilt. Now cars are priced based on horsepower numbers and luxury features.

My dad owned a 2009 M-Benz GL450. Great car but I couldn't see it lasting to 200k without some major electronic gremlins. In the 90k miles he had it the electronics, air suspension, and other things were becoming well worn. Yes, maintenance definitely helps, but at what point does maintenance turn into rebuilding the whole car, piece by piece? The shocks were 1000 bucks a corner on that vehicle just for the part. The air suspension also had a mind of its own sometimes with electronic glitches. Those aren't really things that can be fixed with maintenance.

Gone are the days when you could drive a car with a check engine light on for some mysterious code that won't go away with minimal loss in performance until you could fix it. Now we have limp mode, half engine power, etc. A few months ago my friend had an issue with his Duramax truck. Something in the diesel exhaust emissions system was malfunctioning and it limited the truck to 50 mph on the highway. Turns out it needed a $3000 repair for the emissions controls.

This also isn't just German cars, it is all modern vehicles with complex electronic controls.

[doru]

Originally Posted by InControl

A well maintained and taken care of 335i will not go over 150k miles without needing a new turbo and a plethora of other things do to the nature of the design and use. A mediocre 328i will run longer. Like one forum member said, one must know how to drive a 328i right for performance, this is also true for longevity and each car requires a different driving technique.

Moving parts. They eventually go on any car. Let's wait out on the "other" manufacturers who went in unison with turbo engines lately. Nowadays, the norm are 4 cyl forced induction, and BMW had troubles with the N20 and the diesel counterpart. Curious how other manufacturers will fare.
As far as the other "plethora" of things, I'm not so sure what these would be? Some people use preventative maintenance, and "plethora" of things do not happen. Same was said on the old e39 platform, I had one until I had an accident and was a writeoff. Most reliable car I have ever owned, yet people were were bashing BMW and praising "other" manufacturers. Which had their fair share of problems. The biggest difference is that BMW has a wide forum audience, whereas other brands not so much, or maybe a few focused models only. So one will not hear about many issues on those ones.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Okay, that was seriously funny. Considering German automotive set most of the marks for reliability around the world.

That reputation was built on when german cars were analog and overnengineered and built to last.

When they started adding more electronics and started cost cutting to compete against lexus and infiniti that reputation is no longer true.

Just research there reliability and quality ratings for the last 15yrs with maybe the only exception would probably be porsche if you ignore the IMS issue.