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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics B58 (M240i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning Power lost after installing VRSF downpipe?

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      10-15-2017, 10:13 AM   #1
Ziyadeth
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Power lost after installing VRSF downpipe?

Hey guys.Just have a quick question. I just installed my downpipe yesterday and broke it in and everything. Installation was fine, no problems and all. However, after i broke it in a little, i noticed that i wasn't getting the power i had before i put my downpipes in. How i know? well because i ran a buddy of mine with a C6 ls2 corvette. I was midpipe, dinan sports tuner (race mode), and intake. We ran a 40 roll like we always do and i was always get him by about half a car. We ran again last night and i couldn't even keep up. I ran my body with a scat pack RT, he usually only gets be by about a car after 100, but last night it wasn't even close. So i know im losing power. I checked my dinan sports tuner and i was still runnign on race mode, but it just seems like im not getting the power i used to have. The question is do you think i need to break it in more? i mean i put about 200 miles in before i did all of these runs? Do you think i need to move to JB4 because the dinan tuner is inadequate? Is it the new flow that is messing everything up? I've searched the forums and no one really had anything to stay about it, so i would just like some expertise on this if possible!

P.S. love the downpipes. It sounds wonderful with my midpipes and intake.

Thank you!!
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      10-20-2017, 02:03 PM   #2
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There is a fuel limit cap on the B58 platform that you can hit when using a piggyback tune and this is hit even easier when matching that with a downpipe. When this happens the ECU will adjust power down. My guess is that's what is happening. You should turn down the boost on the controller a bit and see if you aren't in fact getting better results.
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      10-21-2017, 07:29 PM   #3
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Are you sure you weren't just heat soaking? Turbo cars suffer more than N/A cars. Adding a downpipe does nothing to change the DME fuel cap. A more plausible scenario is that you're experiencing throttle closures on upshifts, which has been an issue on the B58 with catless DP's. Can you data log with the Dinan?
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      10-22-2017, 06:29 PM   #4
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I had a friend that told me the same thing and was thinking it was a fueling cap. i'll try and turn down the boost and see if it does anything. thank you!
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      10-22-2017, 06:31 PM   #5
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i wanted to think i was just heat soaking, but i left my car cool down for a day and tried to get on it a bit and same results. I'm gonna do a couple of other tests and see if i can find out what is going on. but i did just ordered JB4, so hopefully that will fix all my problems.
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      01-27-2018, 01:28 AM   #6
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Any updates?
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      01-27-2018, 06:51 AM   #7
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Very hard to tell without any type of logs. The JB4 is the way to go, atleast if you continue to have the problem you will have the logs to find out why Those $200 are nice, but limited tuning functionality.
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      01-30-2018, 05:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipphreak View Post
Very hard to tell without any type of logs. The JB4 is the way to go, atleast if you continue to have the problem you will have the logs to find out why Those $200 are nice, but limited tuning functionality.
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      01-31-2018, 01:56 PM   #9
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I bet he is running into the throttle closing issue common on the B58 with downpipe upgrades and not the proper piggy back installed. Dinan sport only adds boost and controls nothing else. JB4 is needed.
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      12-03-2020, 11:41 PM   #10
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I think I have the same problem on my 340.

I tried with and without the piggyback (tried dinantronics and activ8).

Hold at 4000rpm then floor it. Have tried in 1st and 2nd gear.

Can feels like it's blowing thru a straw then unleashes once it hits 5500rpm or so.

I have a vrsf catted and noticed this immediately after.

How can I diagnose and what's the remedy?
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      12-05-2020, 01:06 PM   #11
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Folks are correct in this thread. Your O2 sensors are picking up way more air than what used to be there post turbo after your DP was installed. This information is sent back to the DME as short term fuel trim (STFT) which the DME uses to calculate how to maintain the target air to fuel ratio (AFR). This results in asking for more fuel and a weak point on the early B58 is the high-pressure fuel pump (HPFP). You're not making the required target pressure (2800 psi) under fuel load so the DME is closing the throttle to prevent a lean condition (a good thing).

Either lower the boost or upgrade your HPFP (my recommendation is Dorsch Stage 1).
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      12-05-2020, 01:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by shovell242 View Post
This results in asking for more fuel and a weak point on the early B58 is the high-pressure fuel pump (HPFP). You're not making the required target pressure (2800 psi) under fuel load so the DME is closing the throttle to prevent a lean condition (a good thing).

Either lower the boost or upgrade your HPFP (my recommendation is Dorsch Stage 1).
Do you think this would be a necessity on my '21? Once I hit the break-in period, I'll be upgrading to an AA catted dp (and Eventuri intake/Remus catback) and would prefer to not have to tune it.
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      12-05-2020, 04:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
Do you think this would be a necessity on my '21? Once I hit the break-in period, I'll be upgrading to an AA catted dp (and Eventuri intake/Remus catback) and would prefer to not have to tune it.
Completely depends on your tuner of choice if you're going for stage 2. e.g. this seems to occur a lot with folks running BM3.

I believe your '21 still uses the B58B30M0 platform so you'd be open to this issue unlike Supra/M340-440 variants of the B58.
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      12-05-2020, 08:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovell242 View Post
Completely depends on your tuner of choice if you're going for stage 2. e.g. this seems to occur a lot with folks running BM3.

I believe your '21 still uses the B58B30M0 platform so you'd be open to this issue unlike Supra/M340-440 variants of the B58.
Well shoot. Guess we'll find out in February! I should clarify, I won't have any piggy back or flash tune. If I remember, I'll revisit this and report if I have any noticeable power loss. As I said, I'd really prefer not to unlock the DME and/or tune for the next couple of years, but if its that much of a pain, I may consider it - else I'll just put stock DP back in or deal with it.
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Last edited by jordan24c; 12-05-2020 at 08:25 PM.. Reason: clarification
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      12-05-2020, 11:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
Well shoot. Guess we'll find out in February! I should clarify, I won't have any piggy back or flash tune. If I remember, I'll revisit this and report if I have any noticeable power loss. As I said, I'd really prefer not to unlock the DME and/or tune for the next couple of years, but if its that much of a pain, I may consider it - else I'll just put stock DP back in or deal with it.
Well if you're going to get a DP without a tune I don't really see the point TBH. The DP unlocks the ability for the stock turbo to run higher boost typically on stage 2 tunes running 18+ PSI. Stock is around 10.5 so the performance gains given the hassle of the install and cost of the pipe aren't worth it.
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      12-06-2020, 12:39 AM   #16
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      12-06-2020, 09:28 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by shovell242 View Post
Well if you're going to get a DP without a tune I don't really see the point TBH.
Well I've clearly stated a tune is planned down the line, but why wouldn't I enhance the sound of my car if I have the means to do so? And why not keep as much of my warranty in tact as possible? I don't think the install is all that bad given I'm replacing the entire exhaust set up, as well as my intake (and possibly charge pipe) at the same time, so I'll have all the room in the world to work with.
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      12-06-2020, 11:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
Well I've clearly stated a tune is planned down the line, but why wouldn't I enhance the sound of my car if I have the means to do so? And why not keep as much of my warranty in tact as possible? I don't think the install is all that bad given I'm replacing the entire exhaust set up, as well as my intake (and possibly charge pipe) at the same time, so I'll have all the room in the world to work with.
That's fair, and I also think EPA regulations are going to really start to crack down on DP manufacturers and those that install them so moving now is smart. APR already discontinued their DP line for VW folk as an example.
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      12-07-2020, 09:00 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by shovell242 View Post
I also think EPA regulations are going to really start to crack down on DP manufacturers and those that install them
Yeah I feel that - really my only choice was the Active Autowerke catted, I wanted that no CEL guarantee; certainly could have saved a good chunk of change by going catless but, again, that means I gotta get something that clears codes. Also going hi-flow catted should keep the noise down just a bit - I'm all for a loud exhaust so long as the car puts down the power to warrant those decibels - I still live in a complex with a ton of neighbors that surely wouldn't appreciate cold starts every day hehe.
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      12-07-2020, 04:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
Yeah I feel that - really my only choice was the Active Autowerke catted, I wanted that no CEL guarantee; certainly could have saved a good chunk of change by going catless but, again, that means I gotta get something that clears codes. Also going hi-flow catted should keep the noise down just a bit - I'm all for a loud exhaust so long as the car puts down the power to warrant those decibels - I still live in a complex with a ton of neighbors that surely wouldn't appreciate cold starts every day hehe.
Something to keep in mind as you contemplate tunes is that you can actually code out the loud cold starts. I did it with bm3 and no longer feel like "that guy".
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