[For3]

Hi E90Post,

I picked up a used PE last weekend. Very excited to get it mounted soon. It didn't come with the clamps. Checking RealOEM has me confused. Are the "Y" ends 55mm clamps and the muffler end 63.5mm or all three 55mm?

Also contemplating doing this myself or taking it to a shop and getting it done. If going to a shop what would the downside be to just getting it welded rather than spending the extra money on clamps? I know if I ever sell the car I could recoup the $$ in the exhaust but otherwise I don't see any reason not to get it welded if it were to save a little money.

Does anyone know where to download the BMW instructions. No luck finding them so far online. Found a DIY which had Euro instruction, eg no midpipe, only muffler.

Thanks in advance.

[Phil325i]

If it's a genuine BMW PE, it should be supplied with the clamps. I'd go back to the dealer and complain!

[For3]

Thanks. It's a genuine PE, but I bought it off a fellow forum member locally. He turned in his leased E93 and put the stock exhaust back on, hence, the clamps stayed with the car and he didn't include them in the sale.

If anyone can confirm it's 2x 55mm and 1x 63.5mm that would be appreciated.

[sprp85]

I believe those are the sizes.

Try looking up on ecstuning as they do sell those clamps separately.

[3002 tii]

I may have a new PE clamp for muffler side I can sell cheap

[atmosphericM]

Hi for3,

I actually just installed my PE last weekend (well, mostly... ugh; I still want to re-adjust the muffler/tips after seeing it in day light). First, let me warn you. I'm not exaggerating when I say that it was one of the biggest pains I've ever done install wise, and I have replaced turbos and clutches in apartment parking lots before. The issue is mostly just due to cutting the stock exhaust. Otherwise, it's really not bad at all, and quite straight-forward. I highly recommend using a very high quality cutting chain (if they exist), or otherwise don't bother trying to cut the exhaust while on the car. I spent literally 10+ hours under my car with that damn tool, to end up having to remove the entire exhaust and finish cutting off the car anyway (yes I am a very stubborn and determined individual).

That said, you have the correct sizes in mind - 55mm x2 and 63.5 x1

When tightening the clamps, be sure to watch the inner "sleeve" to make sure it is "sliding" while closing. Somehow, this did not happen for me as I tightened the clamp for the muffler, so now I suppose I'll have to buy another damn clamp. [3002 tii - PM sent ] I'm quite annoyed because it was certainly not due to user error. I am actually wondering if the pipe itself is not a perfect circle. There is also some paint or something on the pipe, and I'm wondering if the added friction where the paint is prevented the clamp sleeve from "sliding" while tightening, causing it to "bind up." The clamp amazingly does not leak, but I will have to move the clamp when re-adjusting my muffler and tips, and I highly doubt it will still not leak when I'm finished with it. C'est la vie.

Also, while from my personal experiences I cannot see why welding would be an issue for the mid-pipe area (personally I still wouldn't, though), you DO NOT want to weld the muffler to the mid-pipe because that connection is how you adjust the muffler itself so that you can have ideal placement of the tips. From reading this site a lot when doing research prior to my install, I was amazed that people did not realize this. One member even had an exhaust shop CUT OFF his tips in order to shorten them lol, poor guy, not knowing about the adjustment process. Well, that's what you sometimes get for just paying uneducated generic exhaust shops to do your work for you. 8) Anyway, GOOD LUCK my friend!

OH, and there are no BMW official instructions. I combined info from a DIY I found here (sounds like the one you found) along with the official BMW instructions for the muffler alone (they provide a little info about the muffler adjustment process). There is also a good YouTube video guide to removing the stock exhaust - he provides some good visuals as well as bolt sizes, etc. My advice is just get under there and then ask here if you have any Q's. When cutting the mid-pipe, have someone help you "line up" the new mid-pipe under the stock one while under the car, and use a pen to mark your cutting points. Then, if you want (I did not), cut the OE mid-pipe about 1 cm closer to the front of the car to allow a little room for error. I actually derped and cut 1 cm toward the REAR of the car, but somehow it ended up about perfect length wise. I guess that was the car gods rewarding me for the extreme pain the @55 of cutting the pipes.

One last pro tip if you decide to DIY, get an "exhaust hanger removal wrench" for the rubber hangers. It's bad enough with the tool, wouldn't want to attempt without. I found it best to remove the actual hanger assemblies (un-bolt them) from the chassis for the muffler (two of them) and then deal with the rubber hangers when it's off the car. The mid-pipe hanger assembly's bolt was harder to get to though, so I removed that rubber hanger while under the car. Beast-Mode.

Hmm, I suppose I should really create a DIY guide for this process, sadly there isn't much good info out there huh.

-aM

[For3]

aM,

THANK YOU! What a great write up. You've plugged a few holes from all my research this weekend reading various posts.

10 hrs LOL. Man I was wanting to tackle this as a DIY, but the $75-$100 quote I got at a local shop is sounding pretty good right now. Either way I will order up the clamps today and let you know which way I proceed. By the time I invest in the pliers and correct blades, I don't think it is worth the savings.

If I do DIY, I was hoping to save some time by not dropping the exhaust and sawzall'ing in place but it sounds like the more prudent method is to do drop it completely. By the way, I think I saw the same video on youtube. It's by a younger guy who removed his E9X exhaust. Watch the companion video with the muffler bypass valve if you have a moment.

[atmosphericM]

Haha ok, I'll check out his follow-up. I did see that he made another video, but wasn't really interested at the time. I used to have an electric cut-out on an old 240SX.. was fun when I was 19, but not my thing anymore heh.

Glad I could help! I wholly agree that $100 for this install is a STEAL, as long as they do everything correctly. My biggest fears would be with getting a clean cut - de-burred, etc.. and making sure they know about aligning the muffler via the rear clamp. But even if they don't do a good job of aligning, that's something you could finish easily with a friend and a pair of ramps. Personally, I just have a hard time trusting mechanics after some situations I've been involved in. From what I've seen, work-ethic is lacking in today's society IMO (ok ok, I promise not to rant lol). So I myself would rather have peace-of-mind when it comes to my baby, even if it means I want to destroy said baby out of frustration while I'm working on her lol. I'm a little crazy though, probably.

One may be able to successfully use a sawzall (reciprocating saw) to cut while the exhaust is still bolted to the car, but it would be tough IMO without puncturing the heat shield. I'd imagine a pro with a lot of experience with the tool could make it happen though. I have very little experience with a sawzall, and the only time I've used one it wanted to kick all over the place. That could have been due to many reasons though, such as a poorly maintained tool or even the wrong type blade. But, that would be the best way to go about the job, again, if it's possible. Dropping the exhaust isn't really an issue, per se, but it just makes for some extra work (removing the primary cat section from the manifolds, removing the bolt that holds the primary cat section to the chassis, removing the chassis bracing that goes underneath the mid-pipe section.. hmm I think that's it as far as added work). Furthermore, one reason I avoided dropping the entire system was that you need a T-50 (pretty large) TORX bit for the chassis brace, and an E-10 (external) TORX bit for the mid-pipe brace.. neither of which I had. Anyway, with all of that said, removing the entire exhaust and cutting it when off the car would be my recommendation for someone doing this job on jack-stands, just be sure to get the right tools. I was very stubborn and wanted to finish with the chain type tool for a clean cut. I also did not have a sawzall (had to finish the job with a hacksaw lol). But learn from my mistake ha.

See, the real problem here is that for an exhaust install, the PE is actually pretty complicated. So I think exhaust shops give a generic quote of $100, and then probably get annoyed when they realize what all is involved to complete a thorough job. Every exhaust I've ever installed used flanges, not clamps, and there was no "aligning," you just bolted it up and boom you're good to go. With the PE, though, you have to bolt it on, check alignment, re-adjust the clamp, repeat, repeat, etc. depending on how OCD you are.

You guys can probably already guess where I am in that spectrum... =P

[For3]

Well the clamps finally came in and I got the exhaust installed at a shop (for $100) this morning and picked it up at lunch.

Wow.

I've watched the youtube videos but it is even better in person. A little louder than I expected too which is great. But when the windows are up you hardly notice it all. It's the perfect mix of civility and edge. The burbles on throttle lift are awesome. And starting the car is no longer completely uneventful.

In summary, the PE is worth 50hp psychologically. Recommended.

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by atmosphericM

OH, and there are no BMW official instructions.

Yes there are - your seller probably lost them...

BMW E9x Performance Muffler Install Instructions Compressed.pdf

[For3]

Thank for your posting. Those instructions are found in a couple of other threads, however, they contain no info for the mid pipe part, only the muffler / silencer. It's obviously basically the same task.

Minor update I noticed a pfift pfift sound on throttle lift off with the window down on Sunday and today on the way into work. My guess is a leak in the clamps at the mid pipe connection. Never noticed this sound before the PE install and it also seems correlated to rpm, throttle, etc. I am going to take it back to the shop and have them assess/correct.

[atmosphericM]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Yes there are - your seller probably lost them...

Attachment 1758532

Those are not the instructions for the BMW PE kit we are referring to in this thread. Those are instructions for the muffler only. Yes, they can help with the entire kit install, but they are not included in the kit because they weren't designed for the kit (just part of it.. if you want to look at it that way). As many here have confirmed, if you buy a BMW PE for the 328/330 in the US (at least) that includes the mid-pipe, you will not be getting any instructions from BMW.

OP: Glad you are enjoying it! Good luck getting that little issue sorted. I had a similar sound on mine, which was in fact a leak (however I knew it was going to leak because of that damn clamp). This weekend I replaced the clamp and re-adjusted the rear muffler. Much better now. I wish the tips could be a little more perfect (I still think they stick out a hair too much, and now that I've moved them back, the exhaust isn't 100% "centered"), but hey that's life. Maybe I'll mess with my mid-pipe connections one of these days but I doubt that would help much anyway.

I'm so happy to have this exhaust install (basically) finished. My poor girlfriend.. she's been helping me with it lol, needless to say there was a big high-five this weekend once we confirmed there were no leaks and the car was back on the ground. She'll probably kill me when she finds out I'm already eyeing new front-pipes (cat deletes/race pipes).

[kickserve]

I will be installing my PE in the near future and found this thread interesting.

Do you guys think exhaust paste would have helped prevent the leaks? I remember other posts saying it wasnt necessary.

aM- out of curiosity- what clamp adjustments did you make?

Thanks.

[atmosphericM]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by adjustments, but... where the exhaust physically sits in relation to the rear bumper cut-out (exhaust "spot" on the rear apron) is controlled, to some extent, by holding the muffler in place then tightening the exhaust clamps. Basically you're just putting force on the exhaust hangers in certain directions so that the exhaust sits more to your liking. The rear (single) clamp does most of this, but you *might* be able to move the exhaust further "in or out" by moving the mid-pipe toward the front or rear of the car and then tightening those two clamps.

If you're asking about torque specs for the clamps, I used 45NM on the front clamps' bolts and 70NM for the rear clamp's bolts.

I've never used exhaust paste so I can't really comment, other than that I know you don't absolutely need it, as I'm not using it and am leak free. That said, at least in my case, my rear clamp had a hard time "sliding" closed as I tightened it. This actually caused my first go around to fail as the inner sleeve on the clamp binded up, thus creating a channel for exhaust to leak out of. If paste also helps lubricate the area as you tighten the exhaust clamp, it could be worth it if for nothing else than that alone.

[atmosphericM]

In all seriousness, I wonder if the issue I faced is a known one by BMW. When searching for a new clamp I noticed that there were a lot of 65mm clamps but 63.5 was harder to find. I even read by one seller that the 63.5mm clamps have been discontinued by BMW. Who knows. But what I do know is that the 63.5mm clamp does not ever fully compress, so perhaps a 65mm would suffice, and maybe even be better? Someone with more experience than I would have to chime in... this is my first ever exhaust install using sleeve style clamps.