[ceedawg]

Is,this possible,has anyone tried?

[Zel335]

I don't see your cost being beneficial doing this versus aftermarket parts, unless you are getting free parts or discounted parts. I have yet to see anyone do this per your question. You can find scymatics of the B58's turbo and it really doesn't look like the same setup as what is on the N55. The B58 looks to mount in two spots to the manifold and the N55 is a single mounting point.

[RoundelM3]

Both engines use a twin-inlet-scroll type of turbo, so there would likely not be any real advantage considering the price of the intake manifold and turbo assembly. There's no telling whether or not the exhaust manifold from a B58 would match up to an N55 cylinder head's exhaust ports or whether the B58 turbo would match up to the N55's exhaust manifold. As for the exhaust, it also is likely not going to have any significant advantage. In both cases, aftermarket parts would cost less and provide more of a power increase.

[ceedawg]

The exhaust manifold design of the B58 is superior to that of the N55 exh mani. And the the turbocharger is also bigger. So I disagree with both of you. I am curious if the bolt pattern is the same and can this bolt up to the exhaust side of the cylinder head. It would certainly be an upgrade. The intake manifold is of no concern. I would use the stock N55 F30 intake mani presently on the car. So to clarify which maybe I should have done,I am asking if anyone ever checked to see if the B58 exh mani turbo setup can bolt up the N55 head.

[ceedawg]

https://bmwtechnician.com/2016/06/21/bmw-b58-turbo/

[yoandry]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The exhaust manifold design of the B58 is superior to that of the N55 exh mani. And the the turbocharger is also bigger. So I disagree with both of you. I am curious if the bolt pattern is the same and can this bolt up to the exhaust side of the cylinder head. It would certainly be an upgrade. The intake manifold is of no concern. I would use the stock N55 F30 intake mani presently on the car. So to clarify which maybe I should have done,I am asking if anyone ever checked to see if the B58 exh mani turbo setup can bolt up the N55 head.

What everyone is saying that is NOT worth the time or money for the small gain as you can go ps2 for less and gain a lot. So, be the first one to do it and post back.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by yoandry

What everyone is saying that is NOT worth the time or money for the small gain as you can go ps2 for less and gain a lot. So, be the first one to do it and post back.

Probably a JB4 tune or even the MPPK/MPE which actually fits the car would make more sense than trying to fabricate something, and gaining little. If you want a bigger turbo I'd go with a Pure Turbo upgrade.

[zinner]

I think swapping in the air to water intercooler system would be pretty neat.

[SeanWRT]

Complete turbo kit replacement will have hassle (wastage control, electrical, fittings). No vendor would be interested to develop such a kit because buying OEM parts is expensive so very little room for profit.

It'd be much easier to just develop a bolt-on part - a B58 style turbofold welded to stock N55 turbine housing. Could do core exchange program like these hybrid turbos, there is no having to buy from BMW.

Power gain should be 30+whp in turbofold alone at above 15psi I guess.

Also pairing it with PS2 would be a great idea, making essentially a PS3. Only if Pure please consider developing this for N55 community.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by yoandry

What everyone is saying that is NOT worth the time or money for the small gain as you can go ps2 for less and gain a lot. So, be the first one to do it and post back.

Listen! ,I know what everyone is saying. How do you know what the gains would be ? Have you done it?

The B58 setups are available used,salvage yards,junkyards,ebay,etc. Until then your just stating your opinion. I'm not looking for that! There are N55 turbo EWG setups being sold for as low as 300.00 on ebay.So...... If the B58 mani could bolt up to the N55 head I would go with the Pure stg2 for the B58 which is better and 1000.00 cheaper than the Pure stg 2 for the N55 turbo induction setup. Do you understand where I am going with this? If it cant work fine. I'm stuck with the Pure stg 2 setup for the N55,not optimal but for now that's whats available for an absurd 2500.00.

Once someone takes time finds out which wheels (compressor and turbine PS2) are used and purchase a turbofold, it will be cheaper. The turbo alone my guestimate could run 1500.00 or cheaper, and definitely not 1k to port and fit everything into the turbofold. This would be the other option I am working on.
340i Pure stg 2 > 335i Pure stg 2 due to engine compression and mostly due to stock mani setup. PERIOD!

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Complete turbo kit replacement will have hassle (wastage control, electrical, fittings). No vendor would be interested to develop such a kit because buying OEM parts is expensive so very little room for profit.

It'd be much easier to just develop a bolt-on part - a B58 style turbofold welded to stock N55 turbine housing. Could do core exchange program like these hybrid turbos, there is no having to buy from BMW.

Power gain should be 30+whp in turbofold alone at above 15psi I guess.

Also pairing it with PS2 would be a great idea, making essentially a PS3. Only if Pure please consider developing this for N55 community.

Thats the problem, you are waiting for Pure to do it! You stay there and wait.There is no magic in figuring out how to use the stock mani ,port it out and and fit in a turbo cartridge with bigger wheels to fit. This is something we have done in the EVO and DSM world back in the 90's modifying the stock exh mani and O2 housings to fit bigger compressor and turbine wheels as long as the shaft could handle it and there was not a tremendous amount of backpressure. And their was no price gouging that I can remember. The N55 and B58 platforms will evolve too . So keep waiting on Pure ! My DSM is a testament and its been through different setups now since I bought it in 1998.

Their stg 1 turbo is priced very reasonal(895.00). Probably an unbalanced setup but reasonable. The pure stg 2 with stock exh man ported, the pricing I will keep that thought to myself

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Would be a pretty cool project, but from a time and cost perspective something like the PURE stage2 would be better, but the original idea is pretty cool and would make for a fun project.. Just depends how much time and money and down time you want to invest.

Mike

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Would be a pretty cool project, but from a time and cost perspective something like the PURE stage2 would be better, but the original idea is pretty cool and would make for a fun project.. Just depends how much time and money and down time you want to invest.

Mike

I definitely think it's something worth exploring if it will work. I just need to know if the flange is different. If so I have other ideas with the present stock N55 manifold and stock turbo. That I will keep under wraps

I and many have seen things done force induction wise with the E36 3 series that others said could not be done. Same goes with DSM's.

Just like the software part of the 335i has evolved from Cobb plug and play to custom flashtunes the same thing will happen and has been happening with the 335i hardware since inception.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Thats the problem, you are waiting for Pure to do it! You stay there and wait.There is no magic in figuring out how to use the stock mani ,port it out and and fit in a turbo cartridge with bigger wheels to fit. This is something we have done in the EVO and DSM world back in the 90's modifying the stock exh mani and O2 housings to fit bigger compressor and turbine wheels as long as the shaft could handle it and there was not a tremendous amount of backpressure. And their was no price gouging that I can remember. The N55 and B58 platforms will evolve too . So keep waiting on Pure ! My DSM is a testament and its been through different setups now since I bought it in 1998.

Their stg 1 turbo is priced very reasonal(895.00). Probably an unbalanced setup but reasonable. The pure stg 2 with stock exh man ported, the pricing I will keep that thought to myself

Platforms vary. BMW have turbofold and turbine housing made into one piece, so you either leave it alone and do cold side only (STG1), or modify both cold and hot side plus some tweak on stock manifold (STG2).

B58 turbo kit isn't a direct fit. Vendor would rather do new ball bearing turbo kit (superior than OEM turbo and cheaper), since it's a full bottom mount upgrade anyway. Like what Speedtech and BigBoost already did.

Therefore, if anything makes sense at all, it should be to just focus on new turbofold for n55 - offer a 1k USD core exchange program, there is a big market for it. Then Hybrid turbo options would be really interesting:
1) STG1, 1k USD
2) Stock + new turbofold, 1k USD + core
3) STG1 + new turbofold, 2k USD + core
4) STG2 (improved turbofold), 2k5 USD + core
5) STG2 + new turbofold, 3k USD + core

BTW, STG1 isn't necessarily unbalanced. When N55 evolve from PWG to EWG, BMW only enlarged compressor wheel and left turbine unchanged. That is something similar to a STG1 upgrade. And STG1 turbo only has a tad bigger compressor than EWG. I have a comparison picture in one of my thread.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Platforms vary. BMW have turbofold and turbine housing made into one piece, so you either leave it alone and do cold side only (STG1), or modify both cold and hot side plus some tweak on stock manifold (STG2).

B58 turbo kit isn't a direct fit. Vendor would rather do new ball bearing turbo kit (superior than OEM turbo and cheaper), since it's a full bottom mount upgrade anyway. Like what Speedtech and BigBoost already did.

Therefore, if anything makes sense at all, it should be to just focus on new turbofold for n55 - offer a 1k USD core exchange program, there is a big market for it. Then Hybrid turbo options would be really interesting:
1) STG1, 1k USD
2) Stock + new turbofold, 1k USD + core
3) STG1 + new turbofold, 2k USD + core
4) STG2 (improved turbofold), 2k5 USD + core
5) STG2 + new turbofold, 3k USD + core

BTW, STG1 isn't necessarily unbalanced. When N55 evolve from PWG to EWG, BMW only enlarged compressor wheel and left turbine unchanged. That is something similar to a STG1 upgrade. And STG1 turbo only has a tad bigger compressor than EWG. I have a comparison picture in one of my thread.

Great post,! Interesting pricing But #4 is basically what the pure 2tg 2 is now

Hopefully just like the tunes I am hoping there will be more competition in the building of more turbo kits(stock and aftermarket) options which will hopefully drive the prices down. Remember the EVOX and most of these new force induction cars all use turbofolds due to easier to maintain which also leads to better economics.

BMW did quite an injustice in the building of the F3X N55 335i in the way they have limited its potential (suspension and power) compared to the EX N54 335i,F3X B58 335i and f8X S55 M3/4. Looks like the B58 335i is certainly IMOP, the 3 series to own and tune if one cannot afford an M

B58 turbo upgrade is cheaper and easier and more hp potential which will worry M owners.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Great post,! Interesting pricing But #4 is basically what the pure 2tg 2 is now

Hopefully just like the tunes I am hoping there will be more competition in the building of more turbo kits(stock and aftermarket) options which will hopefully drive the prices down. Remember the EVOX and most of these new force induction cars all use turbofolds due to easier to maintain which also leads to better economics.

BMW did quite an injustice in the building of the F3X N55 335i in the way they have limited its potential (suspension and power) compared to the EX N54 335i,F3X B58 335i and f8X S55 M3/4. Looks like the B58 335i is certainly IMOP, the 3 series to own and tune if one cannot afford an M

B58 turbo upgrade is cheaper and easier and more hp potential which will worry M owners.

The B58 is still relatively new, so more and more aftermarket stuff will be coming out for it.

Mike

[XutvJet]

The B58 exhaust manifold will not bolt up to the N55 head. No chance. The B58 uses a more typical, one piece metal plate gasket and the B58 exhaust manifold has a flat mating surface to the cylinder head. The N55 manifold is not flat as it has approximately 1/4" high tubes extending from the manifold face. On these tubes, donut gaskets are placed on each individual tube and then the gasket/tube penetrates slightly into the cylinder head (i.e, a completely different design than the B58).

Although the B58 exhaust manifold looks a bit more pretty with it's more tubular design, the motor's power gains have little to do with the very slight improvement in flow in the manifold. The gains are coming from the slightly larger turbo AND higher PSI. The N55 exhaust manifold is rather ugly, but it's a two-walled sheet metal "air gap" design which is intended to keep heat in the manifold thus improving exhaust gas velocity. For the B58, BMW went with a thicker walled cast tubular exhaust manifold design. Yes, it's visually more tubular in design than the N55's (the N55's tubes are hidden), but we're talking maybe an extra inch or so here in there in tube length with the B58 and it's still unequal length. This isn't some wonder exhaust manifold. Just prettier to look at.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

BMW did quite an injustice in the building of the F3X N55 335i in the way they have limited its potential (suspension and power) compared to the EX N54 335i,F3X B58 335i and f8X S55 M3/4. Looks like the B58 335i is certainly IMOP, the 3 series to own and tune if one cannot afford an M

Out of the box, the B58 makes more power and is better at managing intake air temps thanks to it's liquid to air intercooler. At the end of the day though, both the B58 and N55 (EWG models) can reach very similar hp and tq numbers with the more typical mods. It takes fewer mods to get there with the B58 and the N55 would require an intercooler upgrade (which still isn't as good as the B58's setup), but in the end, both motors are hampered by the stock fueling system at around 400whp.

Throw a few grand at either motor and you're looking at very similar power numbers. The B58 gets the nod in 120mph+ acceleration where it's ability to breath an extra 500rpms at peak rpms will play out as the gears get longer. It's larger turbo also means it's not working as hard as the N55s turbo under increase boost.

The B58 is more advanced and powerful but is likely to be more expensive to maintain given it's advancements and additional equipment. The N55 is pretty dang reliable (for a BMW) and relatively simple in comparison.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The B58 exhaust manifold will not bolt up to the N55 head. No chance. The B58 uses a more typical, one piece metal plate gasket and the B58 exhaust manifold has a flat mating surface to the cylinder head. The N55 manifold is not flat as it has approximately 1/4" high tubes extending from the manifold face. On these tubes, donut gaskets are placed on each individual tube and then the gasket/tube penetrates slightly into the cylinder head (i.e, a completely different design than the B58).

Although the B58 exhaust manifold looks a bit more pretty with it's more tubular design, the motor's power gains have little to do with the very slight improvement in flow in the manifold. The gains are coming from the slightly larger turbo AND higher PSI. The N55 exhaust manifold is rather ugly, but it's a two-walled sheet metal "air gap" design which is intended to keep heat in the manifold thus improving exhaust gas velocity. For the B58, BMW went with a thicker walled cast tubular exhaust manifold design. Yes, it's visually more tubular in design than the N55's (the N55's tubes are hidden), but we're talking maybe an extra inch or so here in there in tube length with the B58 and it's still unequal length. This isn't some wonder exhaust manifold. Just prettier to look at.

OK thanks this is exactly what I was looking for I appreciate it.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Out of the box, the B58 makes more power and is better at managing intake air temps thanks to it's liquid to air intercooler. At the end of the day though, both the B58 and N55 (EWG models) can reach very similar hp and tq numbers with the more typical mods. It takes fewer mods to get there with the B58 and the N55 would require an intercooler upgrade (which still isn't as good as the B58's setup), but in the end, both motors are hampered by the stock fueling system at around 400whp.

Throw a few grand at either motor and you're looking at very similar power numbers. The B58 gets the nod in 120mph+ acceleration where it's ability to breath an extra 500rpms at peak rpms will play out as the gears get longer. It's larger turbo also means it's not working as hard as the N55s turbo under increase boost.

The B58 is more advanced and powerful but is likely to be more expensive to maintain given it's advancements and additional equipment. The N55 is pretty dang reliable (for a BMW) and relatively simple in comparison.

Yep I am 100% with you on these FACT's. Other than the timing chain and vanos being by the firewall it is a nice piece of engineering the B58 with the water to air intercooler like the M3/M4 and MB/AMG V6 and V8 TT's included.

[chikunman]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Would be a pretty cool project, but from a time and cost perspective something like the PURE stage2 would be better, but the original idea is pretty cool and would make for a fun project.. Just depends how much time and money and down time you want to invest.

Mike

This is my current project. Something to do during my downtime at work. Have 2 B58 turbos, one is the 6 port flange and the other a 2 port flange (both free)

the free and dead N55 turbo, i already cut the turbo off the manifold and i ran into my first problem. The 2 ports are side by side, whereas looking at the B58s turbo, those ports seem to be front to rear. So the ports seem to be about 90 degrees off.

I'm going to hack up the 2 flange B58 and confirm and go from there. I may cut the flange off the N55 manifold, cut the indivual flanges off the 6 port flange B58 and weld the N55 flange onto the B58 turbo.

I'm also pondering if shaving down the bridge between the ports for the turbo and the flange would be feasible. I know ideally you would want them to mate up since twinscroll and whatnot. But its just a thought. In theory it should have no problem really, think of an intake port.

So far all i have into this project is a 15 dollar Diablo Extreme Metal recip saw blade and about 15 min really

If nothing comes of it, it was still fun, if something does come from it, thats badass and probably a first and it will find its way into my F25, add a lpfp, a Fog'r and some custom tuning to hopefully get some pretty decent gains over my current setup. FBO with a Vargas stage 1

[BMW63]

Originally Posted by chikunman

This is my current project. Something to do during my downtime at work. Have 2 B58 turbos, one is the 6 port flange and the other a 2 port flange (both free)

the free and dead N55 turbo, i already cut the turbo off the manifold and i ran into my first problem. The 2 ports are side by side, whereas looking at the B58s turbo, those ports seem to be front to rear. So the ports seem to be about 90 degrees off.

I'm going to hack up the 2 flange B58 and confirm and go from there. I may cut the flange off the N55 manifold, cut the indivual flanges off the 6 port flange B58 and weld the N55 flange onto the B58 turbo.

I'm also pondering if shaving down the bridge between the ports for the turbo and the flange would be feasible. I know ideally you would want them to mate up since twinscroll and whatnot. But its just a thought. In theory it should have no problem really, think of an intake port.

So far all i have into this project is a 15 dollar Diablo Extreme Metal recip saw blade and about 15 min really

If nothing comes of it, it was still fun, if something does come from it, thats badass and probably a first and it will find its way into my F25, add a lpfp, a Fog'r and some custom tuning to hopefully get some pretty decent gains over my current setup. FBO with a Vargas stage 1

Any news on this? I have both turbos and was thinking of doing something similar for a project