BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums iDrive, Nav, Stereo, Bluetooth, Electronics    Bowers & Wilkins & Weight question

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-13-2018, 07:25 PM   #1
scotty91ss
First Lieutenant
182
Rep
321
Posts

Drives: 19 M5, '15 X5M,'91Chev454ss
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (0)

Bowers & Wilkins & Weight question

Being not happy with the B&O on my 2015 X5M, do you think the B&W is much better?
Also, would B&W add more speakers or amplifiers?
I want to try for the lightest options available, but keeping with the Driver and Premium Package.

Yes for Ceramic Brakes
Would Full or partial leather change the weight?

It would be interesting if BMW advertised a weight gain for the driver or premium package.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2018, 09:01 PM   #2
sealionbeast
Private
sealionbeast's Avatar
127
Rep
98
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Newport Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty91ss View Post
Being not happy with the B&O on my 2015 X5M, do you think the B&W is much better?
Also, would B&W add more speakers or amplifiers?
I want to try for the lightest options available, but keeping with the Driver and Premium Package.

Yes for Ceramic Brakes
Would Full or partial leather change the weight?

It would be interesting if BMW advertised a weight gain for the driver or premium package.
I have the B&O in my current M5. I tested the B&W at the auto show in the new M5 and I thought it was much better. Not even a close. I ordered it on my F90. I have also heard the B&W in a 7 series and same thing, I thought it was much better than the current B&O system.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 08:21 AM   #3
sybaek9
Private First Class
sybaek9's Avatar
93
Rep
199
Posts

Drives: 2018 M5
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Tysons Corner, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sealionbeast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty91ss View Post
Being not happy with the B&O on my 2015 X5M, do you think the B&W is much better?
Also, would B&W add more speakers or amplifiers?
I want to try for the lightest options available, but keeping with the Driver and Premium Package.

Yes for Ceramic Brakes
Would Full or partial leather change the weight?

It would be interesting if BMW advertised a weight gain for the driver or premium package.
I have the B&O in my current M5. I tested the B&W at the auto show in the new M5 and I thought it was much better. Not even a close. I ordered it on my F90. I have also heard the B&W in a 7 series and same thing, I thought it was much better than the current B&O system.
What are the major differences between it and the HK that is standard? Is it $4K better?
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 10:31 AM   #4
dcbigbaps
Private
United_States
23
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: 2017 McLaren 570GT
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Haymarket, VA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Bowers and Wilkins is a well respected audio company... B&O, not so much.
Appreciate 1
Remonster821.00
      02-14-2018, 11:10 AM   #5
Bönz
Captain
Bönz's Avatar
United_States
184
Rep
764
Posts

Drives: 2018 M5
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybaek9 View Post
What are the major differences between it and the HK that is standard? Is it $4K better?
The B&W has double the power, different speakers and a better sound processor. B&W makes very fine audio equipment. Whether or not it's work 4k more than the HK system is a debate that can go on forever, like any debate over audio equipment and sound. There are so many factors beyond cost.

It comes down to you. I recommend you listen to both and decide for yourself, although you may have to use a surrogate vehicle as mentioned, such as the 7 series. Personally - I am going for it.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 12:09 PM   #6
RPiM5
Major General
RPiM5's Avatar
2857
Rep
7,883
Posts

Drives: Mexico Blue F10 M5(Mika)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego

iTrader: (0)

I have also sat and tested the B&W in the F90. It's definitely better than the B&O. The B&W is probably my favorite upgrade in the F90 over the F10 M5. The synthetic diamonds and superior sound processing make the sound crystal clear. And it's even cheaper than what they originally charged for the B&O. I would say the B&W is about $1,000 better than the older B&O though. But the B&W will be about 50% better than the standard sound system in the F90. In the F10 M5 I felt the B&O was actually only about 30% better than the standard Harmon Kardon.

As I've always told people though, if your going to be driving the car a lot with passengers in it, then don't even bother with the optional upgraded sound system. This option is really just for you, the driver, the owner of the car. You will most enjoy it when riding alone because you can enjoy listening to whatever you want. I have always found that I can't crank up my music when people are riding in the car because people always want to talk.

As for the weight difference, yeah I would imagine the actual weight of the amplifier itself for the B&W is heavier than the standard sound system. By how much? BMW doesn't put out that kind of information.
__________________


Appreciate 1
Bönz183.50
      02-14-2018, 03:50 PM   #7
Bönz
Captain
Bönz's Avatar
United_States
184
Rep
764
Posts

Drives: 2018 M5
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Despite my suggestion to listen before you buy, I'm going for it just on B&W's reputation (and the positive feedback on this forum). I haven't had a chance to listen to the B&W system in any BMW. Since I lease, the cost is negligible. Hell, I paid for the B&O upgrade in my F10, which as discussed cost more than the B&W (in the F90) which wasn't that much of an improvement over standard(although it certainly is better).

I'm probably alone in my car 80% of the time commuting. And I like to crank, so it's worth it to me.

As far as weight is concerned, the full leather (vs extended) plus the addition of B&W probably amounts to the same as whether you're going to or coming from dinner.
Appreciate 2
      02-15-2018, 01:45 AM   #8
visualguy
Captain
183
Rep
795
Posts

Drives: M5
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Too much ambient noise and distractions when actually driving for it to be worth going beyond the HK in my opinion. Ambient noise mostly squashes the benefits of the higher end system. I had the Burmester in my Porsche which sounded awesome in my garage with the engine turned off. When actually driving, the tire/engine/wind/road noise mostly drowned the fine details that distinguished this sound system. It wasn't worth it.
Appreciate 1
      02-15-2018, 12:57 PM   #9
mvigod
First Lieutenant
mvigod's Avatar
United_States
180
Rep
326
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5M
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
No offense but I guarantee the weight difference won't make a difference in your lap times. Unless you are a top 1% professional driver won't make any difference at all. I'd worry more about the sound quality and be happy with that. Weight inconsequential
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2018, 04:07 PM   #10
steeve13m
Second Lieutenant
61
Rep
294
Posts

Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I have the Bavsound speaker upgrade on the F10 M5 which sounds way better than HK...how does it compare to the B&O and B&W
__________________
2019 F90 M5 Competition - Marina bay Blue Pearl - Executive and Bowers & Wilkins package
Gone:2013 F10 M5-DCT-Montecarlo Pearl Blue-BBMR 800 Stage 1 system 700whp+(93oct)
2004 Lamborghini Gallardo-Manual-Giallo Midas Pearl Yellow-Modified
2018 Range Rover Velar S-White
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2018, 01:59 AM   #11
SergeiSSH
New Member
Russia
8
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 750d G11, plus ordered F90
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Moscow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post
Too much ambient noise and distractions when actually driving for it to be worth going beyond the HK in my opinion. Ambient noise mostly squashes the benefits of the higher end system. I had the Burmester in my Porsche which sounded awesome in my garage with the engine turned off. When actually driving, the tire/engine/wind/road noise mostly drowned the fine details that distinguished this sound system. It wasn't worth it.
This is a very good point. I would add that ambient noise will be acompanied by fake exhaust sound which is kind of weird in terms of music quality that you are paying for.

I ordered B&W for my F90, but have a lot of doubts. It looks great, but won't it be spoiled totally with the ambient sound and active audio (exhaust sound) ...?
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2018, 07:11 AM   #12
scotty91ss
First Lieutenant
182
Rep
321
Posts

Drives: 19 M5, '15 X5M,'91Chev454ss
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (0)

All GREAT comments, thanks to all of you.
After bouncing between two cars in the dealership showroom, the B&W had a different sound that I found the HK more appealing.

I am more of a 1/4 mile racer than the track. Last summer on race day I removed the only easy item to remove in my X5M, and that was the whole back seat. Took out around 200 lbs.
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2018, 11:46 PM   #13
visualguy
Captain
183
Rep
795
Posts

Drives: M5
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeiSSH View Post
This is a very good point. I would add that ambient noise will be acompanied by fake exhaust sound which is kind of weird in terms of music quality that you are paying for.

I ordered B&W for my F90, but have a lot of doubts. It looks great, but won't it be spoiled totally with the ambient sound and active audio (exhaust sound) ...?
It shouldn't be spoiled totally, but the benefit won't be huge. These higher end sound systems sound great when the car is stationary and everything is turned off other than the sound system. When driving, you have so many sources of noise: A/C system, fake and real engine/exhaust noise, tires, wind, other cars on the road. All this noise degrades the benefit of the higher end sound system.

It will still sound better, though. The HK system is ok, but far from great, so if the B&W is great, you will still notice a difference. Whether it's worth the money or not is a different question... If you listen a lot to classical or other acoustic music, then possibly.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2018, 10:32 AM   #14
TheRealOrosie
BMW Fan Boy
TheRealOrosie's Avatar
United_States
446
Rep
1,385
Posts

Drives: //M
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

iTrader: (0)

I have never understood spending thousands on a sound system in a car. For many of the reasons listed above, anything beyond a "good sounding" stereo in a car is a waste. Don't get me wrong, I am an audiophile at heart, and have a 30k system in my media room at home...but for the car, spending thousands more on Bowers and Wilkins "Diamond" speakers is a total waste. I think the Diamond label is a bit misleading as well, as the speakers in the car are in no way the quality of say a pair of 805D3s.

Just my opinion, of course. To each, their own.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2018, 02:38 PM   #15
visualguy
Captain
183
Rep
795
Posts

Drives: M5
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill Country F90 View Post
I have never understood spending thousands on a sound system in a car. For many of the reasons listed above, anything beyond a "good sounding" stereo in a car is a waste. Don't get me wrong, I am an audiophile at heart, and have a 30k system in my media room at home...but for the car, spending thousands more on Bowers and Wilkins "Diamond" speakers is a total waste. I think the Diamond label is a bit misleading as well, as the speakers in the car are in no way the quality of say a pair of 805D3s.

Just my opinion, of course. To each, their own.
Yeah, I stopped getting the high-end sound system option on my cars, but it's still not an easy decision because these do sound better... If it was less expensive, I would get it. At its price, it really adds up - one for your car, one for the spouse's car, and then you pay all these thousands again in a few years when the cars are replaced. It's not like a home system where you can buy a high-end system once and enjoy for many years.

Beyond the substantial cost over time, there's the relatively small benefit due to ambient noise, and also the fact that I'm also driving. While driving, I don't really focus on the music that much; it's more like background music, and my attention is mostly elsewhere. It's not like sitting in your listening room and focusing on the music. Ultimately, I found that it wasn't worth it to me even though I'm an audiophile. I may revisit this when we have fully autonomous driving...
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 02:54 AM   #16
SergeiSSH
New Member
Russia
8
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 750d G11, plus ordered F90
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Moscow

iTrader: (0)

Could it be that if you go for a high-end music option, you get more noise-cancelling materials in your vehicle?

I suppose that the top level OEM music in the car is not just a set of better components, it should be a totally different way of installation and noise cancelling.

I mean if you double the power output of your system (comparing B&W to Harman for example) there should be a special approach in installation to avoid vibrations and side sounds caused by an increased sound pressure.

I would love to know if BMW does it or not.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 09:32 AM   #17
TheRealOrosie
BMW Fan Boy
TheRealOrosie's Avatar
United_States
446
Rep
1,385
Posts

Drives: //M
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeiSSH View Post
Could it be that if you go for a high-end music option, you get more noise-cancelling materials in your vehicle?

I suppose that the top level OEM music in the car is not just a set of better components, it should be a totally different way of installation and noise cancelling.

I mean if you double the power output of your system (comparing B&W to Harman for example) there should be a special approach in installation to avoid vibrations and side sounds caused by an increased sound pressure.

I would love to know if BMW does it or not.
Doubling the power only increases sound level by 3dB. You would also need a 4x increase in power to double the SPL. I doubt BMW does anything different with noise-cancelling materials in the car with these two systems.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2018, 08:46 PM   #18
Bönz
Captain
Bönz's Avatar
United_States
184
Rep
764
Posts

Drives: 2018 M5
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

B&W has better speakers, more power, more channels and better processor. Worth it? To each his own.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/car-au.../5-Series.html

https://www.harmankardon.com/bmw-5-series-sedan.html
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2018, 03:20 PM   #19
visualguy
Captain
183
Rep
795
Posts

Drives: M5
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty91ss View Post
After bouncing between two cars in the dealership showroom, the B&W had a different sound that I found the HK more appealing.
I just did the same thing - comparing the HK and the B&W on the G30 5-series at the dealership. I was using a few high-resolution FLAC files with a variety of acoustic, electronic, and vocal music that I use for testing sound systems (I've been an audiophile for many years.)

The B&W is a bit better than the HK. The difference is noticeable, but not as big as I expected. To put this in context, the B&W isn't as good as the upgraded Burmester system in the Mercedes E-Class, and the sound quality difference between the Burmester and the B&W is more significant than the difference between the B&W and the HK. To be fair, the Burmester upgrade in the Mercedes is more expensive than the B&W.

I decided not to get this option.
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2018, 09:53 PM   #20
stbm5
Lieutenant
261
Rep
472
Posts

Drives: 2018 M5 DG
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 72211

iTrader: (0)

haven't head the B&O but the B&W is far better than the HK in my M4 with bavsound upgrade. bass lacks a little punch and turing bass up in tone control makes it a bit muddy. overall tho i'm much happier with the B&W than with the HK+bavsound.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2018, 09:21 PM   #21
frankchn
First Lieutenant
286
Rep
369
Posts

Drives: F90 M5
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

To be honest, I ordered the B&W system partly based on the looks The quality is probably better but that may be hard to discern in traffic.
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2018, 12:28 AM   #22
styler69
Second Lieutenant
62
Rep
196
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Little Rock

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill Country F90 View Post
I have never understood spending thousands on a sound system in a car. For many of the reasons listed above, anything beyond a "good sounding" stereo in a car is a waste. Don't get me wrong, I am an audiophile at heart, and have a 30k system in my media room at home...but for the car, spending thousands more on Bowers and Wilkins "Diamond" speakers is a total waste. I think the Diamond label is a bit misleading as well, as the speakers in the car are in no way the quality of say a pair of 805D3s.

Just my opinion, of course. To each, their own.

Couldn't disagree more for this car. I found the B&W substantially better. The HK sounds really thin, B&W fuller and flatter. I think the m5 is quiet enough that the difference is audible and obvious. The HK is really lacking in bass. Whether that worth 3400 is another question.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 AM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST