[OpenFlash]

Hi guys,
Here are the results from Hunter's car from this past weekend in Houston. Kyle will be updating the other thread (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146425) with these runs. But since this is the first tune comparison test of an MSD81 I've seen, it's worth its own thread. Especially given how much talk there has been of all these tuning fears with respect to the new ECU.

The mods on Hunter's car are:
RPI Intercooler
BMS intake
Borla muffler section (still runs all 4 factory cats)

One of the reasons I went down to Houston this past weekend is to develop a map for the MSD81. The goal, at this time, was to just play it super safe and keep short term fuel trims below 10%. This would basically mimic the behavior in a stock car. But while still making good power and a flat torque curve. For starters, we got the results we were hoping for. As time goes by, we'll get more aggressive with it. But without knowing what the allowable threshold is for STFT, we're playing it conservatively.

Hunter came in running a JB1 with an H-pill (JB1H). Boost ranged from 10.5-13psi depending on temps (the hotter, the more boost). It was run on the dyno and it put down a respectable 315whp/325lbft. STFT were in the +20-25% range during the run.

Then I unwired the JB1 and plugged in the PnP Doomsday v3 set-up running a map that we developed on-the-road (no dyno) in an MSD81-equpped X6. It put down 346whp/324lbft. STFTs were in the +3-10% range. Then I tweaked the 5200-5700rpm range for a bit more timing and boost (SFTs were only +3% here) and picked up another 20whp in that rpm region. Peak whp rose a bit as well (to 350whp). Peak torque also went up to 330lbft. STFTs were in the +8-10% range during the run. Boost ranged from 10-11psi in low to midrange, up to 14psi between 5500-6500rpm and back down to 9psi by 6700rpm.

Here's what we ended up with vs what he came in with:



It looks like there is still another 10-25lbft of torque we can extract out of the system while keeping STFTs in check. But we are going to do some more testing internally before we release that.

shiv

[Hunter399]

Nice!

[Mr. 5]

Could someone attach the file so I can view it here at work?
Thanks in advance.

[Hunter399]

I will soon be getting a different exhaust that will delete the secondary cats and will run a dual cone set up to help get rid of some restriction

I will take it back to get dynoed and see what type of numbers i put down


Thanks again shiv for coming down to Texas

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Could someone attach the file so I can view it here at work?
Thank in advance.

Here ya go...

[RiXst3r]

I will have to say I was defiantly hoping for more torque...

This still seems like a major step back from where we were on v80 cars.

Thanks for sharing, I hope eventually we can get past these v81 problems...

The interesting thing to me is that if you drive around below 5k RPMs all the time, there isnt a whole lot of difference between the 2... (v3 and jb1h)

[SteelTorque]

Shiv, why is the torque so low? Does it have to do with v81?

[tomtom]

wow....thats a flat ass torque curve. hp curve is also like a straight line.
power/torque is looking like the M3 now.

[Hunter399]

The torque is low because we are limiting fuel to keep it within the parameters

We are just playing it safe now

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by SteelTorque

Shiv, why is the torque so low? Does it have to do with v81?

It's because we want to keep STFT trims below 10%. If this is not a concern (and it wouldn't be to me personally), there is no problem with running MSD80 boost levels and making the same torque levels.

We are playing around with the idea of running higher than stock fuel pressures to get extra fuel enrichment. Right now we are keeping max fuel pressure at the stock level. There really shouldn't be an issue with raising it a bit to get the extra enrichement. That would allow us to make more torque while still keeping STFTs low. But it's obviously something we want to test more internally. There are a few other things we can do but this only represents attempt efforts

shiv

[Kbueno]

I assume PROcede settings were at base levels? How much more torque if you turned up the setting to say 95%?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Here ya go...

Shiv,

This might be a dumb question (and I'm sorry if it is) but how can the HP numbers be higher than the torque? Isn't that unusual?

[jcarlucci1]

So can someone with msd81 run your current v3 maps if they dont care about stft's?

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It's because we want to keep STFT trims below 10%. If this is not a concern (and it wouldn't be to me personally), there is no problem with running MSD80 boost levels and making the same torque levels.

We are playing around with the idea of running higher than stock fuel pressures to get extra fuel enrichment. Right now we are keeping max fuel pressure at the stock level. There really shouldn't be an issue with raising it a bit to get the extra enrichement. That would allow us to make more torque while still keeping STFTs low. But it's obviously something we want to test more internally. There are a few other things we can do but this only represents attempt efforts

shiv

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

I assume PROcede settings were at base levels? How much more torque if you turned up the setting to say 95%?

Yes. All were set to 90% UT. At 95%, torque would go up another 15-20whp. Whp another 5-6.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by jcarlucci1

So can someone with msd81 run your current v3 maps if they dont care about stft's?

Oh yeah.

shiv

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by jcarlucci1

So can someone with msd81 run your current v3 maps if they dont care about stft's?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Shiv,

This might be a dumb question (and I'm sorry if it is) but how can the HP numbers be higher than the torque? Isn't that unusual?

Nothing really unusual about it. Torque is simply (HP x 5250)/RPM. You'll usually see high revving engines make less torque than hp since they have the advantage of being able to rev higher to make the same horsepower. Low revving engines will be the opposite. Turbo engines tend to make more torque than hp since they increase their effective displacement and eliminate the need for revving high.

shiv

[Lane]

Torque sucks. Just run the current V3 maps, increase the TQ settings and you are set at nice 380-400 of torque.

[A418t81]

Cool thread, thanks for posting. For those saying "the torque sucks" you obviously have completely missed the point of this exercise.

Shiv, like we were speculating in the previous doomsday thread, it does appear that tq must take a hit in order to maintain stock fuel pressure through the low and mid-range. I'm interested to see what kind of fuel pressures it will take to get the STFTs into a comfortable range while still providing enough fuel for the kind of tq we are used to seeing. I personally don't think a small bump in fuel pressure is going to be detrimental to properly built fuel pumps.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Cool thread, thanks for posting. For those saying "the torque sucks" you obviously have completely missed the point of this exercise.

Shiv, like we were speculating in the previous doomsday thread, it does appear that tq must take a hit in order to maintain stock fuel pressure through the low and mid-range. I'm interested to see what kind of fuel pressures it will take to get the STFTs into a comfortable range while still providing enough fuel for the kind of tq we are used to seeing. I personally don't think a small bump in fuel pressure is going to be detrimental to properly built fuel pumps.

Its only with v81 where torque currently takes a hit if you chose to keep max stft and fuel pressures at stock levels. This isnt the case with v80. Even those running v29.2.

I agree that running a bit more fuel pressure in the low end/midrange is going to be fine and even desireable. But that requires more testing on our car before that map can be released.

Hunters results demonstrate the most conservative 1st try approach we could offer without knowing too much about the anti-tuning features built in to msd81.

Shiv

[rallycobra]

Shiv, can the auterra dyno-scan log STFT's, or are you logging it through the procede?

Doesn't a SSTT that is supposedly v81 safe crank the STFT's way up?

I thought on the v81 when you crank up the STFT's, you get throttle closure. That seems like what happens to the helix tune. If it's not STFT's, what is causing the throttle to close?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by rallycobra

Shiv, can the auterra dyno-scan log STFT's, or are you logging it through the procede?

Doesn't a SSTT that is supposedly v81 safe crank the STFT's way up?

I thought on the v81 when you crank up the STFT's, you get throttle closure. That seems like what happens to the helix tune. If it's not STFT's, what is causing the throttle to close?

Yes it can.