Can / Do M Sport Brakes Freeze?

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 02:13 AM

Pads and Discs good. 30k miles left all around. Visually checks out.

-5 outside. Brakes seemed ineffective. Even the shortest and most gentle braking led to judder when leaving home. I decelerated for traffic lights but jumped the stop line a few meters because the brakes juddered and the car didn't want to stop.

I am as confused as a baby in a topless bar (or buffet). Been driving more than 18 years. Seen many winters. Driven treacherous roads in the Cotswolds and Highlands but never had an issue with brakes like this.

This is on my 435d x drive m sport.

Any thoughts or tips appreciated.

NISFAN · 02-28-2018, 02:21 AM

Weird, no problems for me this morning -6.5 C.

Are you running standard tyre sizes?

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 02:21 AM

Yep all standard tyre sizes.

HighlandPete · 02-28-2018, 02:45 AM

Just the cold, or have you been out on snow and salted roads and got them contaminated?

Can cover discs with a sort of slime which does reduce the braking performance until rubbed/washed off.

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Just the cold, or have you been out on snow and salted roads and got them contaminated?

Can cover discs with a sort of slime which does reduce the braking performance until rubbed/washed off.

Have been in the snow but this started from when I moved the car out of the garage and braked as I came off the drive - it was snowing heavy. I will try give them a clean and see how they perform. Wheels off. Brake disc cleaner.

MashinBenzin · 02-28-2018, 03:03 AM

Snow or ice on the ground? Juddering through the pedal and increased stopping distance ... It sounds like abs kicking in.

999rigger · 02-28-2018, 04:24 AM

Sounds like the ABS to me!

1966-TR4 · 02-28-2018, 04:31 AM

Sounds like ABS. This is exactly what happens even with winter tyres on snow.

Watsey · 02-28-2018, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Snow or ice on the ground? Juddering through the pedal and increased stopping distance ... It sounds like abs kicking in.

This.

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 05:25 AM

No idea why the ABS is being over zealous at slow speed though. Going to check for codes in case and tyre pressures. Tyres are down to 6mm but that shouldn't pose a problem.

chris-c · 02-28-2018, 05:27 AM

I missed the obvious ABS signs until people suggested it. You might find yanking the handbrake will allow you to lock the rear wheels for a bit of extra grip. I've had to use it before in an old car of mine when the brakes were just "juddering" due to the ABS. Yanking the lever just got me enough grip to break through some of the snow and stop.

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 05:30 AM

Never had such a sensitive ABS system on any car or issues like this in winter. Weird.

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 05:41 AM

I turned off the dsc and it has helped massively. May be I am being too assertive with brakes in winter conditions.

Watsey · 02-28-2018, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37psi

I turned off the dsc and it has helped massively. May be I am being too assertive with brakes in winter conditions.

A bit concerning that to don't know what ABS feels like

Go easy on the brake pedal in freezing temperatures !

NISFAN · 02-28-2018, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37psi

I turned off the dsc and it has helped massively. May be I am being too assertive with brakes in winter conditions.

Controversial I know, but what you mention is why I think a RWD car is safer in slippery conditions. With RWD, you are always aware of how much grip there is long before you need to decelerate......AWD reminds you when you use the brakes.....ooops!!!

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37psi

I turned off the dsc and it has helped massively. May be I am being too assertive with brakes in winter conditions.

Controversial I know, but what you mention is why I think a RWD car is safer in slippery conditions. With RWD, you are always aware of how much grip there is long before you need to decelerate......AWD reminds you when you use the brakes.....ooops!!!

I agree.

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsey

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37psi

I turned off the dsc and it has helped massively. May be I am being too assertive with brakes in winter conditions.

A bit concerning that to don't know what ABS feels like

Go easy on the brake pedal in freezing temperatures !

Well the fact I haven't felt it many years is good. When I came off the drive I babied the brake and it still happened. I guess it comes with owning such a powerful machine.

The slightest tap sent judder. Our 320d had no issues on winter boots this morning and that is remapped.

Hey ho.

xenon · 02-28-2018, 07:59 AM

What has the power got to do with it?

chris-c · 02-28-2018, 08:36 AM

The power has nothing to do with it but it's probably got something to do with the fact your 320D has smaller brakes vs the sports brakes.

You're just pushing too hard on the sports brakes meaning they lock up a lot easier.

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenon

What has the power got to do with it?

My thinking is that if you manage to put down the power and then need to tap the brakes then that might lead the ABS to have a wobble in the snow. I wasn't entirely sure where I was going with the thought... lost the train.

1966-TR4 · 02-28-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37psi

My thinking is that if you manage to put down the power and then need to tap the brakes then that might lead the ABS to have a wobble in the snow. I wasn't entirely sure where I was going with the thought... lost the train.

Have you got winters on? If not, the wheels will lock very quickly on the snow, hence ABS kicking in.

Soul_Glo · 02-28-2018, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1966-TR4

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37psi

My thinking is that if you manage to put down the power and then need to tap the brakes then that might lead the ABS to have a wobble in the snow. I wasn't entirely sure where I was going with the thought... lost the train.

Have you got winters on? If not, the wheels will lock very quickly on the snow, hence ABS kicking in.

Yeh this is my winter set hence 6mm. As used over 3 winters.

02-28-2018, 02:13 AM	#1
Soul_Glo Major General 13352 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	Can / Do M Sport Brakes Freeze? Pads and Discs good. 30k miles left all around. Visually checks out. -5 outside. Brakes seemed ineffective. Even the shortest and most gentle braking led to judder when leaving home. I decelerated for traffic lights but jumped the stop line a few meters because the brakes juddered and the car didn't want to stop. I am as confused as a baby in a topless bar (or buffet). Been driving more than 18 years. Seen many winters. Driven treacherous roads in the Cotswolds and Highlands but never had an issue with brakes like this. This is on my 435d x drive m sport. Any thoughts or tips appreciated.
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02-28-2018, 02:21 AM	#2
NISFAN Major General 3489 Rep 9,709 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Bedford UK iTrader: (0)	Weird, no problems for me this morning -6.5 C. Are you running standard tyre sizes?
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02-28-2018, 02:21 AM	#3
Soul_Glo Major General 13352 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	Yep all standard tyre sizes.
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02-28-2018, 02:45 AM	#4
HighlandPete Lieutenant General 6659 Rep 15,858 Posts Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Scotland, Highland Region iTrader: (0)	Just the cold, or have you been out on snow and salted roads and got them contaminated? Can cover discs with a sort of slime which does reduce the braking performance until rubbed/washed off.
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02-28-2018, 03:03 AM	#6
MashinBenzin Major General 8467 Rep 8,786 Posts Drives: Eiger D5 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Snow or ice on the ground? Juddering through the pedal and increased stopping distance ... It sounds like abs kicking in. __________________ Drives - 2020 LR Discovery HSE-L Previous - 2019 LR Discovery HSE-L // 2016 F36 440i // 2009 E90 320D SE
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02-28-2018, 04:24 AM	#7
999rigger First Lieutenant 88 Rep 314 Posts Drives: F33 4 Series Convertible Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Sheffield iTrader: (0)	Sounds like the ABS to me!
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02-28-2018, 04:31 AM	#8
1966-TR4 Captain 268 Rep 609 Posts Drives: F31 330D xDrive MPPK ACS Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Edinburgh & Glasgow, Scotland iTrader: (0)	Sounds like ABS. This is exactly what happens even with winter tyres on snow. __________________ F31 Mineral Grey 330d Xdrive, ACS, Adaptive, MPPK. Gone but not forgotten: 1967 Triumph GT6 Mk1 (6 pot 2 litre widowmaker) 1966 Triumph TR4A (4 pot 2.2 litre, huge torque, lovely car) 2004 Audi TT 3.2 DSG Quattro (weak springs & nose heavy) 2006 VW Golf GTI (brilliant on good tyres)
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02-28-2018, 05:25 AM	#10
Soul_Glo Major General 13352 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	No idea why the ABS is being over zealous at slow speed though. Going to check for codes in case and tyre pressures. Tyres are down to 6mm but that shouldn't pose a problem.
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02-28-2018, 05:27 AM	#11
chris-c Lieutenant Colonel 901 Rep 1,801 Posts Drives: F31 340i RWD Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Kent iTrader: (0)	I missed the obvious ABS signs until people suggested it. You might find yanking the handbrake will allow you to lock the rear wheels for a bit of extra grip. I've had to use it before in an old car of mine when the brakes were just "juddering" due to the ABS. Yanking the lever just got me enough grip to break through some of the snow and stop.
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02-28-2018, 05:30 AM	#12
Soul_Glo Major General 13352 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	Never had such a sensitive ABS system on any car or issues like this in winter. Weird.
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02-28-2018, 05:41 AM	#13
Soul_Glo Major General 13352 Rep 7,484 Posts Drives: G20 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Manhattan, NYC iTrader: (1)	I turned off the dsc and it has helped massively. May be I am being too assertive with brakes in winter conditions.
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02-28-2018, 07:59 AM	#18
xenon Major General 1399 Rep 8,085 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	What has the power got to do with it? __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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02-28-2018, 08:36 AM	#19
chris-c Lieutenant Colonel 901 Rep 1,801 Posts Drives: F31 340i RWD Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Kent iTrader: (0)	The power has nothing to do with it but it's probably got something to do with the fact your 320D has smaller brakes vs the sports brakes. You're just pushing too hard on the sports brakes meaning they lock up a lot easier.
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