[harkes]

Hi

My ignition timing flatlines at 8.5* already at 5500rpm running BEF with methanol. So I'd like to allow it to go higher which I assume it can. How do I edit this in the map editor?

The stock map will run 16* timing as it shows in the log below, but the map only shows 8.5* max - can someone explain?

[harkes]

Halim Cazimi
X axis is load. Look at stock log and the stock timing table. It's a timing target! So when tuned it will go at a higher load hence you will see lower timing advance - from here you can play around with it.

Dzenan Becic
When messing with this stuff, ignition timing especially, key thing to always keep in mind is to not make any large changes in any given revision of your map. Each change, say 1-2deg of timing difference, I'd suggest to datalog and review and see how the motor is responding. 1) Is it actually hitting the timing for a given load/rpm already? 2) If its lower, no point raising timing as its either heat soaked and those temp compensation tables are pulling it down, or it might be knock that's pulling it down from where you have it targeting. 3) If its on target then add another 2deg across the RPM range for the load you hit at WOT, reflash and relog and see how it behaves. Try and do 2-3 runs on each revision to give the DME a chance to learn its new ways and respond accordingly and go from there, rinse and repeat. At some point especially when you're not octane limited you may be in a situation where you're raising timing and seeing it hit your target but its actually not making any more power or getting faster past that point. You can see this on a dyno much clearer than the road of course as you have fully controlled test conditions. What happens is you've basically reached what is referred to as commonly MBT (Maximum Brake Torque) or as some refer to it to keep it simpler, Maximum Base or Best Timing Why "maximum"? Because going past that makes no additional power and simply raises in-cylinder pressures taking a toll on your piston rings/hardware for no added value in power/torque, i.e. useless timing that can only hurt the motor in the long run even if it isn't knocking.

proTUNING Freaks

[JaredG_F30]

Love those guys (Halim & Dzenan)!!

[M-terkait]

Originally Posted by harkes

Halim Cazimi
X axis is load. Look at stock log and the stock timing table. It's a timing target! So when tuned it will go at a higher load hence you will see lower timing advance - from here you can play around with it.

Dzenan Becic
When messing with this stuff, ignition timing especially, key thing to always keep in mind is to not make any large changes in any given revision of your map. Each change, say 1-2deg of timing difference, I'd suggest to datalog and review and see how the motor is responding. 1) Is it actually hitting the timing for a given load/rpm already? 2) If its lower, no point raising timing as its either heat soaked and those temp compensation tables are pulling it down, or it might be knock that's pulling it down from where you have it targeting. 3) If its on target then add another 2deg across the RPM range for the load you hit at WOT, reflash and relog and see how it behaves. Try and do 2-3 runs on each revision to give the DME a chance to learn its new ways and respond accordingly and go from there, rinse and repeat. At some point especially when you're not octane limited you may be in a situation where you're raising timing and seeing it hit your target but its actually not making any more power or getting faster past that point. You can see this on a dyno much clearer than the road of course as you have fully controlled test conditions. What happens is you've basically reached what is referred to as commonly MBT (Maximum Brake Torque) or as some refer to it to keep it simpler, Maximum Base or Best Timing Why "maximum"? Because going past that makes no additional power and simply raises in-cylinder pressures taking a toll on your piston rings/hardware for no added value in power/torque, i.e. useless timing that can only hurt the motor in the long run even if it isn't knocking.

proTUNING Freaks

Thanks for the info, I think you Should Log "Load" to know where are you exactly at this table.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by JaredG_F30

Love those guys (Halim & Dzenan)!!

+1

[harkes]

Originally Posted by M-terkait

Thanks for the info, I think you Should Log "Load" to know where are you exactly at this table.

Yes definitely. The difficult bit is to wrap your head around the load-based tuning. With TPS/RPM that I have been playing a little with before all the magic is at the far right colums. But with load-based the timing moves as shown below - and not even in a straight line...haha

[harkes]

CaryTheLabelGuy
I saw all your videos on the BM3 editor - great videos. Would you be interested in doing a small one on how you adjust the ignition timing?

[harkes]

Best video I have found on load-based ign timing

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by harkes

Dzenan Becic
When messing with this stuff, ignition timing especially, key thing to always keep in mind is to not make any large changes in any given revision of your map. Each change, say 1-2deg of timing difference, I'd suggest to datalog and review and see how the motor is responding. 1) Is it actually hitting the timing for a given load/rpm already? 2) If its lower, no point raising timing as its either heat soaked and those temp compensation tables are pulling it down, or it might be knock that's pulling it down from where you have it targeting.

If it's just the temp compensation, timing is really hitting target albeit a lowered one. Raising timing table will eventually mean a higher timing target after temp adjustment, which would be beneficial if octane holds up.

[MTWO]

I started playing with the map editing myself too googling and learning as I go. Its fun for sure!

[harkes]

Originally Posted by MTWO

I started playing with the map editing myself too googling and learning as I go. Its fun for sure!

Yeah, let's see if we can support each other with this. Dzenan does have plans for a "basics tuning manual" but that will take a while.

Comparing my BEF and stock map i see only ign timing map3 edited for so I assume that is the one to edit further. What map1 and map2 does though - no idea so far.

[hardparker]

I really like the idea of communal tuning. One thing that I think will be useful here is map sharing. We'll need to figure out where we can host an easily accessible repository for unlocked maps, starting with stock DME files. Any other unlocked maps, especially those done by credible, experienced tuners, would be awesome to have for learning purposes as well. It would be really nice to have community contributed "OTS" editable maps for sharing at some point.

I've found the whole "stare and compare" technique to be usefully revealing, thus the need for numerous differing maps. I've already started comparing X3 an X4 M40i maps to see what's done differently and try to discern why. I think more sample data would be useful. Anyone with BM3 should be able to provide their stock .bin or downloaded stock .bm3 file for sharing. A good sample set would include 335i, 340i, M2, M3, M4, GTS.

[M-terkait]

Originally Posted by hardparker

I really like the idea of communal tuning. One thing that I think will be useful here is map sharing. We'll need to figure out where we can host an easily accessible repository for unlocked maps, starting with stock DME files. Any other unlocked maps, especially those done by credible, experienced tuners, would be awesome to have for learning purposes as well. It would be really nice to have community contributed "OTS" editable maps for sharing at some point.

I've found the whole "stare and compare" technique to be usefully revealing, thus the need for numerous differing maps. I've already started comparing X3 and X4 M40i maps to see what's done differently and try to discern why. I think more sample data would be useful. Anyone with BM3 should be able to provide their stock .bin or downloaded stock .bm3 file for sharing. A good sample set would include 335i, 340i, M2, M3, M4, GTS.

Yes, it could be helpful for us, I can share my Stock file although I noticed it is different from others as it targets "0.75" AFR [ 11.76 ]. maybe BMW does have special tunes for the different environment as our environment is known to be extremely hot mostly.

[harkes]

I have a F20 M135i PWG (Chinese Market) stock + 95% finished BEF to share (revision 6 of 7).

[MTWO]

I think they could add like a screen like Community Maps just like OTS Maps screen for stuff people publish. That’d be killer for this.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by hardparker

I really like the idea of communal tuning. One thing that I think will be useful here is map sharing. We'll need to figure out where we can host an easily accessible repository for unlocked maps, starting with stock DME files. Any other unlocked maps, especially those done by credible, experienced tuners, would be awesome to have for learning purposes as well. It would be really nice to have community contributed "OTS" editable maps for sharing at some point.

I've found the whole "stare and compare" technique to be usefully revealing, thus the need for numerous differing maps. I've already started comparing X3 an X4 M40i maps to see what's done differently and try to discern why. I think more sample data would be useful. Anyone with BM3 should be able to provide their stock .bin or downloaded stock .bm3 file for sharing. A good sample set would include 335i, 340i, M2, M3, M4, GTS.

Definitely a Great idea however are you able to get to the VE tables,fuel cells(Max octane ignition), Advance coolant temp fuel adj, etc etc etc? Not yet! These are some of the things I believe the SW engineer and some tuners have access to most importantly BMW engineers so its a big challenge. When AEM came out with a plug and play standalone for the E36 3 series ,guys like Mike Radowski(Extremepsi) and others made some of the fastest turbocharged E36's and E30's out there. If we had access to a number of these tables it would be cutting a lot of these middle guys out.

Whoever comes out with a standalone for the F3x or F8X or a flash that would enable the end user to have access to changing the above tables mentioned Wowwwwww, and for a good price that would be a real game changer.
However there will still be others content with present offerings for lack of time or interest in getting deeply involved with DME/ECU tuning. The present offerings are great and getting better. I'm gonna stick with AA till something allows me the desired (ECU) access I'd want like I have with my DSM.

[MTWO]

Dude there’s that and like 2-300 other tables in there already. I look at this stuff every day and compare maps.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Definitely a Great idea however are you able to get to the VE tables,fuel cells(Max octane ignition), Advance coolant temp fuel adj, etc etc etc? Not yet! These are some of the things I believe the SW engineer and some tuners have access to most importantly BMW engineers so its a big challenge. When AEM came out with a plug and play standalone for the E36 3 series ,guys like Mike Radowski(Extremepsi) and others made some of the fastest turbocharged E36's and E30's out there. If we had access to a number of these tables it would be cutting a lot of these middle guys out.

Whoever comes out with a standalone for the F3x or F8X or a flash that would enable the end user to have access to changing the above tables mentioned Wowwwwww, and for a good price that would be a real game changer.
However there will still be others content with present offerings for lack of time or interest in getting deeply involved with DME/ECU tuning. The present offerings are great and getting better. I'm gonna stick with AA till something allows me the desired (ECU) access I'd want like I have with my DSM.

I'll show you in person all the tables available You going to jizz yourself u didnt get Bm3 :-p